Seeking advice on "Gas Failure" fault with Alde 3020 HE --> RESOLVED

warbler_road

I have done a search here after this turned up yesterday in my less-than-two-years-old T@B 400. Heat has worked fine, but now unit comes on, makes flame sound for thirty seconds, cuts off, tries again (that's what it sounds like), then throws a Gas Failure. There is some warmth. So it's lighting but not staying lit.

Read some troubleshooting tips here and have done some:

• Reset on panel
• Unplug 12v from the Alde
• Turn off gas and sloooooooooooowly reopen valve like on my gas grill, which slows to trickle if you open it too fast
• Exhaust flue is clear and I even vaccumed it out. 
• Soapy water test on regulator connections and Tee-intersection at rear. No bubbles.
  

The stove gas rings work fine. Full propane tank (although this started when tank was near empty -- I thought that's all it was at first).

One curious thing: With all the recent discussion of glycol, I checked my reservoir and it's sitting at Max. I have never touched the thing since purchase; never needed to because heat has always worked wonderfully. About to draw it down with a siphon tube. I don't see how that could be related, but ...

Thanks for any input. I emailed Alde and they have been less than helpful. ("$280 for a new circuit board and we don't have any anyway, have a nice day")

pthomas745

Alde error messages often...have nothing to do with the actual problem.  Sounds like you went through the propane system closely.

Another thing to check would be whether or not you might have some air bubbles in the glycol that needs to be vented.

So, a post about bleeding the Alde.  This might not match your trailer, but there are some other things to look for:  pump speeds, etc.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13245/newer-alde-bleeder-tube-location

And then there is this thread: the propane system has several mechanical parts that can fail:  the tank, the pigtail, the regulator.  The thread examines all of them. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13016/alde-gas-failure-after-much-trials-and-errors-help/p1

warbler_road

Thank you @pthomas745 ... that second thread has been my guide so far.

mona

Does it do it when running on electric, or just when trying to run on propane? If the Alde only does it when on propane, it could possibly be one of three things….fan, sensor, or igniter.

jeannie

MuttonChops

@warbler_road ;
I've had Gas Failure Notice / Shut down when the TB battery voltage was low . . . but not low enough to cause the Alde to issue a Low Battery Notice.

Connecting 7-Pin to TV and running TV engine cleared the (false) Gas Failure.

Da_Birds

I'm sure you did this but it wasn't spelled out clearly so I'll throw it out there just in case. Did you purge the gas line of any air by letting the stove burners on for a few minutes before turning on the Alde? I always turn on the burners and let them on for a couple of minutes to ensure the gas is turned on and all air is out of the lines before turning on the Alde. That's because during our dealer walk through they encountered both issues (i.e. gas not turned on and air in lines).

warbler_road

Thanks everyone -- batteries are charged (plus I am plugged in at home), problem is only with propane, and the stove seems to work fine (at least flame is not noticeably weak). Next step is to check sensors coming off the Alde circuit board with a multimeter.

HuCamp

Hey @warbler_road, I ran into this same problem last season and multiple trips to the dealer failed to resolve it. Please post updates as you progress!! And good luck. I also suspected an electrical fault in the Alde itself. 

tteam

We had that problem , at first thought out of propane, then realized a critter had eaten part of the propane lines.  Once new lines installed, no problem.  

warbler_road

@HuCamp, were you able to get it resolved, or are you still just using electric?

warbler_road

@tteam, I had a squirrel chew through my grill line once and I discovered by smelling strong gas in the carport. No gas odor, though, and the exposed gas lines under trailer are intact from what I can see. But this does make me want to remove the bottom cover sheet and look.

Verna

@warbler_road, I had the dreaded gas failure error in my former 2019 T@B 400 with the 3020 Alde. I worked off and on for two days with Creed and Alde Support. I gave up and took it to nüCamp. Austin replaced the main circuit board as the normal “disconnect all DC power to the Alde, wait for a few minutes and reconnect” didn’t work.  

What caused it?  I have no idea. I always turned the Alde off before disconnecting from power, always traveled with the Alde turned off…I guess the Alde gremlins were at work. 

Be sure to read this discussion by @Chan on how he was able to replace a blown “fuse” on the Alde main circuit board and he did not have to replace the main circuit board:  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/81774#Comment_81774

warbler_road

Thanks @Verna, I did look at that @ChanW post with interest. He has an older Alde with a different board, it seems. If that F2 fuse is on my board, it's probably about the size of a poppy seed. I reseated a bunch of connectors -- still shutting down.

I have written to the nucamp help address and am waiting to hear back.

Thanks to all you helpful people!

HuCamp

No @warbler_road not fixed - still using electric. :(

Sharon_is_SAM

@warbler_road and @HuCamp - what elevation are you at?  Both have the Alde 3020 HE?

warbler_road

@Sharon_is_SAM: I live at about 1,000 ft. elevation.

Sharon_is_SAM

Have you tried it on the high altitude mode?  Just curious if that makes a difference.

warbler_road

Yes @Sharon_is_SAM, tried that but only one time.

Just hoping to be able to talk to someone knowledgeable at NuCamp. Still thinking of unscrewing all the under-shielding to check for gas line damage by squirrels, but there's no gas smell or gas volume loss from bottle so I'm putting that off.

pthomas745

If something has chewed on your propane lines, would anything propane still work in the trailer?  Wouldn't the emergency cutoff in the propane tank sense the pressure loss and shut it all off?

This thread pointed directly to the physical setup of the propane system.  The system needs to be pressurized to a certain "water column inches", and a bad regulator could be the source of the problem.  I think a lot of propane issues might stem from odd activity from badly configured/defected regulators.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/10699/alde-3010-showing-gas-failure-2017-tab-outback-resolved-new-propane-regulator

ChanW

Heh! @warbler_road, ignore my PM about posting this on the general forum! 

I think you're right though, the fact that you are showing an error on your display indicates that the system is still powered up.

When my 'thermal fuse' blew, I'm pretty sure it took out all the 12V from the board. I'm sure your display and it's brain requires 12V to give you that message.

Sorry, no help.

warbler_road

@pthomas745, thank you. That thread gives me a lot of hope! I will have to research how many species of propane regulator there are (I believe the T@B 400's is a two stage?) so that I get the right one. 

Can anyone tell me if this is a simple item to replace? Seeing them on the web, not sure what specs I need to be matching.

And yes @pthomas745, I do doubt the leaky line thing, hence not taking off the bottom of the camper. 

pthomas745

You need a "two stage propane regulator".  The stock one that came with my camper has a black cap that covers an adjustment screw.  Many of the regulators I see on Amazon do not have an obvious adjustment screw, so I don't know if they are adjustable or not. The propane system can be calibrated to certain parameters.  There have been a couple of threads that include owners with stove issues that were solved by making adjustments on the regulator. There is a lot of specialized knowledge of propane systems and "water column inches" for proper operation.  I'm betting that some of the issues with these types of problems might be solved with calibration of the propane system through the regulator. I had some work done on my trailer last year and wanted to move my regulator to a different spot in the tub, but the hoses were too short.  My RV mechanic had a propane supply company close by, and they did the work of swapping hoses.  I "think" this would be a fairly simple job to optimize an RV propane system, especially for such a small trailer as ours.

I learned a lot here:

http://www.rvdoctor.com/2001/01/avoiding-pitfalls-of-rv-propane-system.html

A two stage propane regulator, with the black cap (some are different colors) that protects the adjustment screw.

https://www.amazon.com/KIBOW-Propane-Regulator-Outlet-Vertical/dp/B07V9R33BY/ref=pd_sbs_8/143-6304957-8877728?pd_rd_w=t2f8W&pf_rd_p=0f56f70f-21e6-4d11-bb4a-bcdb928a3c5a&pf_rd_r=ZHYQMV4631BDPZXHBXB9&pd_rd_r=33284b98-51f3-43b6-aaba-79020a6a7c8f&pd_rd_wg=tIJ7j&pd_rd_i=B07V9R33BY&psc=1

warbler_road

Here's an update on my Gas Failure problem with my Alde, which popped up in September of 2021, causing me to start this thread.

The problem has been REPAIRED, by my dealer. I tried my own troubleshooting until December, talking with NuCamp and Truma, and finally got a service appointment for four months later. The dealer had my T@B 400 for a month, April 4 to mid-May.

It was determined to be a faulty PCB, as I first suspected. Now the furnace fires up on propane once again. Heading to the beach in 9 days. :-)

The PCB failed within the 24-month warranty period described in the Alde manual (it quit at 21 months). Still waiting to hear from NuCamp about whether my $500 repair bill will be covered.

So that's where we stand.