general newbie electrical questions...12volt / 10-30-50amp???

catndahats

Learning a lot about the proper care and feeding of our new T@B.  Thank you all for the support!
 
* at a 50 amp campsite, can a 50 to 30 amp cord adapter be used safely?

* so, 1500 miles later I figured out why the 12 volt lights/power in the camper were not coming on---thought the battery was dead.... found a small battery cut-off switch (not the fuse) located by the battery in the propane box (discovered that when we got home--a little embarrassing to admit )....but to charge the battery when hooked to shore power or towing,  does this switch need to be turned to the "ON" position to recharge the house battery????  Not sure I want to add more stress to my TV alternator.

* and a general electrical question: at home we have 110v outlets (probably 15amp, not 30 amp).  Can I use a 110/15amp to 30amp  adapter connected to my yellow electrical cord when at home to charge the battery and pre-cool the fridge???

Any advice would be appreciated.
Nate & Cheryl

gilbutler

Nate & Cheryl,
Yes, you can safely use a 50 to 30 adapter to connect to shore power. 
I also connect to my home power using a 15 to 30 adapter whenever I'm home.
I carry a set of adapters with me to allow connection to all standard outlets.
I also use a surge protector that guards against voltage and wiring problems when away from home.  When I travel, I use a 15 to 30 amp locking connector at my T@B and use a 15 amp extension cord  with adapters instead of the heavy 30 amp cord because it's easier for me.

jkjenn

catndahats said:

Learning a lot about the proper care and feeding of our new T@B.  Thank you all for the support!
 
* at a 50 amp campsite, can a 50 to 30 amp cord adapter be used safely? Yes

* so, 1500 miles later I figured out why the 12 volt lights/power in the camper were not coming on---thought the battery was dead.... found a small battery cut-off switch (not the fuse) located by the battery in the propane box (discovered that when we got home--a little embarrassing to admit )....but to charge the battery when hooked to shore power or towing,  does this switch need to be turned to the "ON" position to recharge the house battery????  Not sure I want to add more stress to my TV alternator. Yes

* and a general electrical question: at home we have 110v outlets (probably 15amp, not 30 amp).  Can I use a 110/15amp to 30amp  adapter connected to my yellow electrical cord when at home to charge the battery and pre-cool the fridge??? - Yes

Any advice would be appreciated.
Nate & Cheryl

See, your instincts were right! (see my answers in bold above.)

Nomad

So, your T@B came with a battery cutoff switch? Wonder who installed that, betting the dealer as they install the battery.

ChanW

Nope, no problem taking 30A from a 60A outlet, the outlet supply is rated at 60A max, so adapting down to 30A is fine.

If you're connecting to your house circuits, ideally the circuit/outlet would be rated at 30A, but as you say, most likely they're 15-20A outlets. 

If you connect to a 15 or 20A household outlet using an adapter, what you'd need to be careful of would be high-current-draw items such the Alde at the 110V-high setting, or the AC unit. And use a heavy extension cord that's not too long.

The fridge on 110V, and the converter/battery-charger don't draw too many amps, so should be fine.

USWildflowers

It's important to note that the 30-amp connection we have for RVs is 110 volt, not 220. The 50-amp connections are 220v; the 50-to-30 adapter takes the 110v off of one leg to provide 110V. At campgrounds you shouldn't have to worry about it, but if you're thinking of wiring your own 30-amp service at home, it's kinda critical.  Remember to run a pretty heavy-duty extension cord for your 15 amp service at home, and keep it as short as you can.

RZRBUG

jkjenn said:

 
* so, 1500 miles later I figured out why the 12 volt lights/power in the camper were not coming on---thought the battery was dead.... found a small battery cut-off switch (not the fuse) located by the battery in the propane box (discovered that when we got home--a little embarrassing to admit )....but to charge the battery when hooked to shore power or towing,  does this switch need to be turned to the "ON" position to recharge the house battery????  Not sure I want to add more stress to my TV alternator. Yes

I hadn't really thought about this because I have the cut-off switch ON when connected to shore power because there's no worry about draining the battery.  However, when I have my solar 10A maintainer plugged in, I have the cut-off switch in the OFF position and it still charges.  So, if it has to be turned on when connected to shore power, what's the difference?

mawebb

The battery cut-off switch isolates the battery from the T@B 12 volt system. If it is off, the converter / battery charger, will not be connected to the battery and cannot charge. When on shore power, ensure the battery disconnect is not open.

If you have solar connected, using the Zamp connector, then the solar is connected to the battery regardless of the cut-off switch (depending upon how it was installed). Normally the Zamp connector is in advance of the 30 amp fuse by the battery.

The converter can charge faster than a typical solar configuration, so it is better to use the converter than solar when connected to shore power.

RZRBUG

mawebb, thanks for that explanation.  I installed the cut-off switch myself over a year ago, but cannot remember the particulars.  Will have to take a look and refresh my memory.  I have a 2013 T@B, before they started installing the Zamp plug.  My Goal Zero is connected through a 12V (cigarette plug) that I also installed on the battery box.  Again, don't remember the particulars.  It all works as planned, so guess I did it right.

jkjenn

In my mind, the switch is only off when you want to prevent draining the charge source (TV) or draining the T@b.

RZRBUG said:

mawebb, thanks for that explanation.  I installed the cut-off switch myself over a year ago, but cannot remember the particulars.  Will have to take a look and refresh my memory.  I have a 2013 T@B, before they started installing the Zamp plug.  My Goal Zero is connected through a 12V (cigarette plug) that I also installed on the battery box.  Again, don't remember the particulars.  It all works as planned, so guess I did it right.

A cigarette lighter, interesting as the GZ has the Zamp cable.included. Perhaps you got one with regular instead of reversed polarity?

catndahats

thanks for the tips everyone.  

MAWEBB, this is confusing (confused is often normal for me) to me however: "The battery cut-off switch isolates the battery from the T@B 12 volt system. If it is off, the converter / battery charger, will not be connected to the battery and cannot charge. When on shore power, ensure the battery disconnect is not open."

If the battery disconnect is NOT open when on shore power, then the converter won't charge the battery, right?  Sorry, the more I learn, the more confused I get.

I did connect the T@B to shore power yesterday; using a 15A to 30A converter cord, tested polarity first, and turned on the Norcold 3way fridge to see if I can pre-cool it a bit before I travel.  Everything looks good so far.

Michigan_Mike

catndahats said:

When on shore power, ensure the battery disconnect is not open."

If the battery disconnect is NOT open when on shore power, then the converter won't charge the battery, right?  Sorry, the more I learn, the more confused I get.

If the battery switch is in the "open" position the converter cannot charge the battery because in effect the 12V circuit is not completed.  If the switch is closed this completes the electrical circuit and allows the electric converter to provide 12 volts to the battery.  So the statement above in bold print is correct and you need to close the battery switch to allow the converter to charge the battery when plugged into shore power.  

The converter DOES however provide 12 volts to all 12 volt accessories in the trailer when the battery switch is open and the battery is isolated from the converter.  So when off shore power close the battery switch and you'll have lights and be able to use all 12 volt accessories.  

Hope that makes things clearer.....  

Nomad

What confused me - maybe still does - is open/closed vs on/off so...
open = off ...  -- || --
closed = on ...  -- -- --
correct?

Normfun

PX correct. Open circuit no current can flow therefore it is off.  Closed circuit, current can flow therefore it is on.

RZRBUG

jkjenn said:

A cigarette lighter, interesting as the GZ has the Zamp cable.included. Perhaps you got one with regular instead of reversed polarity?

The GZ maintainer came with a cigarette lighter plug.  I assume that if the polarity on the GZ is reversed, the plug included a built-in adapter that allows its use.

catndahats

again, thanks. Now, it makes sense....I should have understood the terminology better regarding open/closed circuits.

Playc

Please advise.

Plan to install a 30AMP plug in garage.   What are key cautions?  What the electrician should know?
Is it the same as the 220v for Dryers?

Thanks.

Playc

Thanks for the info ST_Bob.

I may want to run the AC, Refrig, and watch DVD while taking a nap on a hot summer afternoon.  Will the 10 amp AC adapter connection support this?

ScottG

Adding to the confusion, there are myriad electrical receptacles that look similar but are not. Some are 120V, some are 240V, some are 120/240V. The configuration will also differ depending on the amperage (15, 20, 30, or 50) the receptacle can handle.

RV receptacles are one of these many types. They are wired for 120V, 30A. They should fit the male end of a typical 30A RV cable.

So, if you do opt for a special 30A outlet for plugging in your RV, make sure your electrician knows exactly what you want installed. Even then, I'd follow Bobbo's advice and test the voltage myself before hooking up your T@B!  

Playc

Thanks to all for the feedback.  

Will tell electrician as 110v, 30amp and RV receptacles (looks like the 10amp adapter where I plug in my camper power cable.

Playc

Thank you very much ST_Bob.

Ratkity

St_bob, quick question: When someone refers to a 15 amp adapter is it synonymous to a 20 amp adapter? I only ask because all the new breakers in my box are 20 A now after a heavy-up. Old box had 15's. Is this just a nomenclature thing? My AC wiring experience is elementary. I'm better at DC. 

ScottG

As ST_Bob indicated, 15A and 20A plugs are not the same, but some receptacles are designed to accept either.

With regards to your house wiring, the distinction is much more than a nomenclature issue. 20A breakers must be matched to circuits using wire heavy enough to carry 20A (12g or larger). Smaller wire (like the 14g used in 15A circuits) may overheat and create a fire hazard if you try to draw 20A through them. Properly sized fuses or circuit breakers prevent this.

Ratkity, I'm assuming when you had your "heavy up" it included replacing the circuit wiring, if it wasn't already 12g.

I'm in the opposite boat. I know AC pretty well. My DC experience is elementary, but I'm learning a lot from this board!

Ratkity

Thank you so much Bob and Scott!! Wiring was already upgraded in the house before the heavy-up. Outlet plugs are the same and only 15 amp type. Upgraded outlets weren't something I paid to get done when the wiring was done. 

About getting an electrician to install an RV receptacle outside the house (30 A) - one thing I read is that keeping your unit plugged in 24/7 not only increases wear on the converter, but one must check the flooded battery water more often because it can dry out a cell. Not sure exactly HOW much wear on the converter happens (are you just taking a year off its life over a 10 yr period?) or if the amount of diH2O in a flooded battery loses when plugged in all the time is THAT significant. I do agree that one overnight period of plugging in your camper after it's been sitting a bit with no draws isn't quite enough to make the battery top off to 100% (provided not plugged into a float maintainer). 

Tiger68

Michigan_Mike said:

catndahats said:

When on shore power, ensure the battery disconnect is not open."

If the battery disconnect is NOT open when on shore power, then the converter won't charge the battery, right?  Sorry, the more I learn, the more confused I get.

If the battery switch is in the "open" position the converter cannot charge the battery because in effect the 12V circuit is not completed.  If the switch is closed this completes the electrical circuit and allows the electric converter to provide 12 volts to the battery.  So the statement above in bold print is correct and you need to close the battery switch to allow the converter to charge the battery when plugged into shore power.  

The converter DOES however provide 12 volts to all 12 volt accessories in the trailer when the battery switch is open and the battery is isolated from the converter.  So when off shore power close the battery switch and you'll have lights and be able to use all 12 volt accessories.  

Hope that makes things clearer.....  "

Thanks Michigan Mike. I'm Colorado Mike - but originally I'm "Holly Michigan Mike" and as a neighbor, I respect Linden greatly. My wife and I have a yellow/white 2007 T@B and love it. We took our honeymoon in it, through CO, WY and MT, chasing trout and great western scenery. I'm in the market for a generator to add heat on fall trout trips and elk hunts, but also to add A/C for hot summer Moab days. Does anyone know if the Honda EU 2000i portable generator will power the T@B air conditioning system?  Thank you for any guidance you can provide.

irvingj

Note that the Honda EU2000i is rated at a MAX of 2000 watts (16.7 amps), but its nominal (continuous) rating is less, at 1600 watts and 13.3 amps.

If your air conditioner is rated at or below 1600 watts/13.3 amps, you should be fine. On your air conditioner, there should be a data tag that lists both RLA (run load amps) and LRA (locked rotor amps--the electric draw when it starts up). Those are the numbers you need to know. LRA draw happens only for a few seconds when it starts up, and that's the one to watch out for; IMHO, I'd want it to be below the MAX rate of the generator. And keep in mind that there could be other electrical loads that come into play besides just the A/C -- lights, refrigerator (?), CO monitor, etc.

Also, take a look at the fuel consumption figures for the generator- "up to 8.1 hours on a gallon of gas"! Well, that's for pretty much an idling situation. If your amp draw is close to the max continuous, note that that gallon of fuel will only last for 3.4 hours according to the specs. Fortunately, it appears the generator is very quiet even at its max load of 59 dB.  If you're at a campground, do they allow running of a generator overnight? Some don't.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't like to rely on it unless my A/C was around 9-11 amps RLA or less and LRA was below 16 or so.

Hope this helps!

Ratkity

Just for the Honda 2000i (ia to) there's a 5 gal extended tank set up you can buy from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SWCUGK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00). That might help with running the AC overnight in areas where it's allowed. I read the reviews on the tank and got it anyway. Found reading the tank instructions and using the teflon tape exactly as described (it was provided with the tank) prevented any leaks anywhere (some reviewers complained of leaks). 

What Irving said was right about what else is running inside the camper, including the converter itself. For example, I was inside the T@B, putzing around as per usual, and the only thing running was the main light. One light switch. Parasitic draws like the Jensen player, TV, CO monitor, and itty bitty LED light in the bath were on. I turned on a 1500W small ceramic heater and flipped the Honda 2000i's overload switch. No frig, no charging iphone/ipad/ipod, no additional lights were on, no fan, TV and Radio were not on (just on stand-by). Unplugging the camper and plugging in the heater directly to the generator, the heater ran all the way to it's 1650W top rating and the generator ran flawlessly. 

There's a bunch of threads about generators that may give you more of an idea of what's out there in the low decibel range and which does well above 4000 ft. elevation. I haven't tested the AC on the generator, but others have. Keep in mind that the 2000i's and equivalents are 20 amp rated, not 30 amp. Some people have even said the 1000i runs the AC, but many worry about the AC compressor failure after stressing it during the times it kicks in. I also don't know their factory installed AC rating. Older Dutchmen T@Bs use a heatpump/AC and that needs a bit more power than you'd expect. 

There are many threads that sorta devolve into generator discussions. I wonder if they are too spread out, or if they can be consolidated into a thread? Mods work hard as heck, and I think that would take a good chunk of time - so I understand if it can't be done for whatever reason. It was just a humble suggestion.

TrailMix

Wonderful help!!!    I can't run the.  3-way Norcold refrigerator on anything but electric above 4,500 feet...I guess I need a high altitude kit?  I live and camp most of the time between 8,000 and 10,000 feet.  I thought the generator might solve the refrigerator problem.  Usually don't use the A/C in the summer up here.  What do you think?

Ratkity

TrailMix, what T@B do you have? Many have the high alt kit already installed. You can tell if you have 2 round vent thingies in the front on the door side of the camper for T@B, not sure where those vents are on T@G.

TrailMix

2015 TAB, S model.  I can't get it to run the fridge on propane, even perfectly level, at 8,000 feet and above.  I will have to take it back to the dealer in AZ (Tom's Camperland) this spring and have them check it out I guess.  Need new glycol anyway.

ChanW

Hmmm. There have been others that had problems at higher altitudes.

It works ok below 8000 feet? I had intermittent problems with the thermocouple connection coming loose at the controller, under the stovetop. It actually got worse at higher altitude, but that might have been coincidence. I finally used a bit of locktite to secure the connection. It has worked good since then, although I haven't had an opportunity to try it at altitude since.