Cellular Antenna Tab 400

rrcbov

I’m looking at installing a cellular antenna, probably the Pepwave product (8.4” diameter).  This would require drilling a hole in the roof - I’m thinking along the passenger side between the solar panel and edge of the trailer - feeding the antenna leads down above the cabinets then laterally to the router in the open cubby.

The idea of drilling a hole freaks me out so I’m looking for any real-life experience that might help.

Thanks.

manyman297

I’ve never done it but I’d say just be mindful of the aluminum ribs that run side to side along the roof. If you’ve got a thermal camera (like a FLIR) it can help locate them. And obviously seal really well around the opening.

pthomas745

There are lots of threads about construction of the trailers.  Here are a bunch of images to look at, click the photo for a link to the thread.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tab+construction+site:tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=AOaemvKEqrLYX6xCVrzqWK5qK2lcws4Olw:1632187481017&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjMzYyY9I7zAhUyPn0KHYXMAFYQ_AUoBHoECAEQBg&biw=1920&bih=1088&dpr=1

This thread is fun just because the solar mod was so well done. There is plenty of data on the cross members.  Look for the two .pdf files with even more info.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/4971/t-b-solar-panel-roof-mount-with-tilt-able-brackets-mod-for-under-300/p1

And, even more ideas on where to mount an antenna without resorting to drilling.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/5871/follow-up-roof-mount-digital-tv-antenna-attached-to-ac-vent/p1

Horigan

I've drilled a hole in the roof of my 2019 400 for a solar panel installation next to the vent on the drivers side.  There is an aluminum beam forward of the vent that goes across the T@b.  For your installation I would install it in line with either the front edge or back edge of the vents on the passenger side.  That is, just forward of the back edge or just behind the forward edge.  From the pictures above there is a beam aligned with the center of the vents.  Once you penetrate the first aluminum layer try to cut and pull out the insulation so it doesn't get spun on your drill bit as you go through the inner wood and ceiling layers.

I used 3M VHB mounting tape to mount my solar wire penetration, then sealed the edge with a silicone based chalk.  If I were to again I would probably seal with Dicor self leveling lap sealant.  Don't rely on the sealant alone to mount the antennae.  I'm not sure if the threaded portion of your antennae will penetrate sufficiently to mount with the nut from the inside, hence the suggestion to use VHB tape.

rrcbov

Thanks for sharing - this is helpful.

Denny16

The TaB ripoff is a sandwich build up, of a thin aluminum outside skin, foam and a interior finish panel.  Not sure the stud on the OP’s antenna would fit all,the way through a 1.6” roof panel.  Also, drilling a large hole like this would invite leaks, me thinks…  

I would mount the antenna on a bracket, attached to the roof on top the aluminum tube, so it is screwed into the roof skin and tube under for max strength. Then I would use a wire gland fitting similar to what is used on solar panel installs, to feed the wire down in a small hole, that the wire gland seals, next to the vent pipe or location of choice. 

cheers

rrcbov

Denny16 said:

The TaB ripoff is a sandwich build up, of a thin aluminum outside skin, foam and a interior finish panel.  Not sure the stud on the OP’s antenna would fit all,the way through a 1.6” roof panel.  Also, drilling a large hole like this would invite leaks, me thinks…  

I would mount the antenna on a bracket, attached to the roof on top the aluminum tube, so it is screwed into the roof skin and tube under for max strength. Then I would use a wire gland fitting similar to what is used on solar panel installs, to feed the wire down in a small hole, that the wire gland seals, next to the vent pipe or location of choice. 

cheers

I’m not familiar with the wire gland seals.   Would they accommodate the 5 wires from the antenna?

pthomas745

There are lots of different "gland nut" setups.  These are the types for solar.  https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Waterproof-Weatherproof-Project-Trailer/dp/B07GDH2TTV

RCB

Why would one need such an antenna ? We get wifi through our cell phone hot spot. Does this antenna simply amplify a campground wifi signal ? Are such signals secure ? Sorry about such dumb questions.

manyman297

@RCB These will amplify your cellular signal and reach. So weak signals will get boosted…faster speeds, more bandwidth, etc.

rrcbov

As I’m learning more I think I understand that there are two strategies for cell signals (as opposed to campground wifi) - boosters and antennas.   Neither is best in all situations so I’ve decided to try the antenna route first.

My cell phone employs MIMO (multiple in multiple out technology) as has two antennas.   The MIMO antenna that I’m considering has four antennas and a GPS antenna.

we’ll see

RCB

Thanks, but what then is the source of the wifi signals these antennas receive ?

rrcbov

The antenna receives broadband cellular which the router converts to wifi for use in the trailer.   There’s also wired internet connection on the router.  

The antennas improve cellular reception by having more (4) and better antennas located outside the trailer.   The wifi provided by the router improves performance on wifi devices such as iPhones.  At least this is how I understand.   

Check out rvmobileinternet.com - this couple has provided some YouTubes that make this more understandable.

RCB

Mounting options here
https://www.peplink.com/products/mobility-antenna-series/

Marceline

I went a different route. I have a weboost cell signal booster. I have one magnetic antenna that stays on the roof of my car and another, bigger omnidirectional antenna that I strapped to an extending painters pole. I use the bigger antenna for camping. 

Denny16

The mounting options posted by RCB look interesting, and the premium deck mount option might work, with the deck flange can be sealed to the roof and a smaller hole for the wire.  Would be best if one or two if it’s screws go into the roof frame and one (or two) long bolt through the roof to the inside, with a fender washer and nut.
Good luck with the install.
cheers 

Tundra57

I did not like drilling my Tab so i mounted it on a sectional pole with tie downs.

rrcbov

Tundra57 said:

I did not like drilling my Tab so i mounted it on a sectional pole with tie downs.

I’ve considered this but how do I then get the 5 antenna leads into the camper?

Verna

If it were my T@B 400, I would use an extendable pole, use a heavy duty suction cup to attach to the outside, use either tie wraps or even Velcro tie wraps to attach the cable to the pole. Then, find a spot on the outside wall that you can get to on the inside and drill your hole using  cable TV type of mount to bring the cable into the side (not roof) of the 400. This way you are not drilling into the very vulnerable roof, into the side where you can easily watch for any water infiltration. 

rrcbov

Verna said:

If it were my T@B 400, I would use an extendable pole, use a heavy duty suction cup to attach to the outside, use either tie wraps or even Velcro tie wraps to attach the cable to the pole. Then, find a spot on the outside wall that you can get to on the inside and drill your hole using  cable TV type of mount to bring the cable into the side (not roof) of the 400. This way you are not drilling into the very vulnerable roof, into the side where you can easily watch for any water infiltration. 

I can envision using a temporary mount for the antenna but I don’t have any good ideas on how to bring the 5 antenna leads into the trailer in a way that can be removed when I take the temporary antenna mount down for travel.

Verna

Then I would suggest going back to the manufacturer since none of their diagrams provide a connection for 5 coax connections to come into a structure. 

Marceline

The Pepwave looks like a pretty robust (and expensive) solution that seems to involve not just the antenna, but also a mobile router, and a dedicated mobile SIM card for its own cellular service.  Depending on the kind of work you do, I guess it could be good to have this. But have you tried something like using the WeBoost cellular booster to enhance the signal to your existing mobile phone so you can use it as a hotspot? Maybe that didn't work for you....? 

rrcbov

I’ve researched this on rvmobileinternet.com and learned that sometimes the antenna/router works best and sometimes the booster.   Also, that the booster can make your reception worse in certain circumstances.   

I started out going down the booster path but just couldn’t envision how to get the required antenna separation.  WeBoost says the interior and exterior antennas need to be 25 feet apart.   I read elsewhere that the distance for 50 dB (the WeBoost Drive spec) needs to be 70 feet but even 25 feet is a challenge on my tiny trailer.   I also read that metal between the antennas could mitigate oscillation and sent WeBoost a question describing the Tab 400 aluminum roof asking if this would minimize the separation requirement on their WeBoost Drive.   The answer I got was “maybe” but they wouldn’t commit to anything other than the 25 foot separation requirement.   So I ended up with the prospect that I could buy a WeBoost but it might not work for me.   This led me to consider the antenna/router option.

There’s a lower cost antenna strategy using a hotspot and a $50 antenna that suction-cups to a window but this is a 2x2 MIMO configuration vs 4x4 on the Pepwave product.

I have an aversion to spending time an $ on something that doesn’t work, particularly if I had reason to know there was a flaw in my approach.  I worry that the booster approach would end in a “I should have known better”.  The antenna/router approach while more costly looks to have a better chance of success.   

Having said all this, I decided to punt for now and upgraded to the iPhone 13 with the Qualcomm x60 modem which promises much better result from the 2x2 MIMO on the phone.  We’ll see!

Sharon_is_SAM

@rrcbov - we also took some advice from the Mobile Internet Resource Center.  I purchased their recommended Verizon 8800 MiFi Hotspot and the recommended Netgear MiMo antenna.  We are at the tail end of a 2 month journey and with the exception of Kodachrome State Park near Bryce, we had Internet and phone access via WiFi everywhere we went.  At Singletree Forest Service Campground in Utah, we were the only ones with access.  Happily surprised!  And we even bought a “renewed” hotspot from Amazon.  Worked flawlessly!

rrcbov

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@rrcbov - we also took some advice from the Mobile Internet Resource Center.  I purchased their recommended Verizon 8800 MiFi Hotspot and the recommended Netgear MiMo antenna.  We are at the tail end of a 2 month journey and with the exception of Kodachrome State Park near Bryce, we had Internet and phone access via WiFi everywhere we went.  At Singletree Forest Service Campground in Utah, we were the only ones with access.  Happily surprised!  And we even bought a “renewed” hotspot from Amazon.  Worked flawlessly!

Good to know, thanks!

Marceline

rrcbov said:

 WeBoost says the interior and exterior antennas need to be 25 feet apart.   I read elsewhere that the distance for 50 dB (the WeBoost Drive spec) needs to be 70 feet but even 25 feet is a challenge on my tiny trailer. 

What WeBoost antenna were you looking at? These numbers sound odd to me. The Drive X RV kit comes with 25' of coax, so they want the antenna to be within 25' of the booster, not at least 25'. And it's hard to see how a mobile setup could require a 70' span between the antenna and booster. 

rrcbov

I was looking at the Drive Reach RV and the Destination RV products.  The physics is, as I understand, if the two antennas are too close, oscillation between the antennas occurs and eliminates boost capability.  Oscillation is eliminated by increasing the distance between the antennas.   

As far as the WeBoost separation numbers, it’s fuzzy to me.  There isn’t anything in the Drive Reach installation manual.  In the Destination manual it specifies at least 20 feet vertical separation.   I got the 25 foot number when I asked WeBoost if the aluminum roof would reduce/eliminate oscillation if the antennas were closer together.

The 70 foot number was from a internet search on “cell booster antenna separation” and not specific to WeBoost.   In the articles this search produced I found a direct relationship between cell booster dB boost and required separation of the antennas. This just made me skeptical that the WeBoost product would produce the 50 dB boost with the 25 foot cable.  Another reason I began to look at the antenna/router approach.

Denny16

The WeeBost Drive RV unit has. Max range between antennas of 25 feet, and the mobil device needs to be within 6-feet of the inside antenna.  Per the install instructions, the two exterior and interior antennas should be at least 6-feet apart, to avoid feedback occultations.  The wireless device being used should be not closer than 12-inches and within 36-inches for best performance.
cheers

rrcbov

Here’s what I found in the installation manual. I wasn’t able to find the minimum 6’ foot spec.

pg 5 “the system performs best with the maximum horizontal and vertical separation”

Pg 10 (troubleshooting) item 2 “relocate the inside and outside antenna further from each other.  The objective is to increase the separation distance between them, so that they will not create this feedback condition”

pg 10 item 4 “increase the separation distance until the condition is corrected and/or desired coverage area is achieved.  Note: Horizontal separation of the two antennas typically requires a shorter separation distance than vertical separation”

Pg 11 “the best way to these spheres of signal from overlapping is to maximize the separation of the inside and outside antennas”

https://assets.wilsonelectronics.com/m/700bdbf86910493c/original/Drive-Reach-RV-Installation-Guide.pdf

A couple of internet search results.  Not specific to WeBoost but it seems like the physics should be the same.  Maybe WeBoost has some tech to reduce separation requirements.

https://cellphoneboosterstore.com/tech-news-and-blog/signal-interference/antenna-separation-guide-for-cell-phone-signal-boosters/

https://www.freewaycom.com/pages/cell-booster-antenna-separation-for-installing-amplifiers

Denny16

It is on the Additional Specs page here: https://www.wilsonsignalbooster.com/weboost-drive-reach-rv-signal-booster-kit-470354.html
I had the outside antenna on the roof of our TaB400 near the door and the inside antenna on the shelf at the foot of the bed, it worked just fine, no feedback loops.
cheers