New Renogy 200A Lithium Battery w/Bluetooth for Under $1K

CrabTab

I was just looking at the Renogy web site. They are advertising a new battery line. There is a 200Ah battery with built-in Bluetooth for about $1000.

https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-w-bluetooth/

They also have a 100Ah version for about $500.

I don't have any other details, but thought some folks would find it interesting.

dragonsdofly

@CrabTab, thanks for the post!

VictoriaP

Interesting! What I’m not seeing is low temp protection, only high temp…maybe I missed it, though?

DenverJaguar

Smoking deal! My two 100AH Battleborn  batteries cost $1800 on sale. They're the heated ones with internal temperature regulation, but I'd probably have opted for the Renogy for $1,000 as long as it has low temp charging protection. 

pthomas745

The batteries that don't have "low temp" charging protection built in have crashed through the 400 dollar barrier in the last couple of months.  Will Prowse has been discussing these for a while.  I was in the "I don't really need a lithium" camp...but at 400 dollars for 100 amp hours I went for it.  I was going to buy a 100 amp hour AGM for about $200, so almost doubling my amp hours in a single battery seemed good to me.  The other expense will be the solar controller that can provide the cold temperature charging protection.  I bought the "Ampere Time" version, and Will Prowse says it is the same battery as the "Chins" version.  The Chins version of this battery is down to $365.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092R4JS3W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Chins version.

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Battery-2000-5000-battery-Off-Grid/dp/B08FMTRYPT/ref=pd_vtp_3/143-6304957-8877728?pd_rd_w=RWFqY&pf_rd_p=016e3697-91be-4dc2-9533-ef9350e7e73d&pf_rd_r=NTV5J1D0V8RA6C0PDEQZ&pd_rd_r=6a4d950f-d54e-4895-b538-1b0340a4888e&pd_rd_wg=n6vlZ&pd_rd_i=B08FMTRYPT&psc=1

webers3

@pthomas745 I am considering it but at almost 13 inch length it would be a tight fit, if at all, in my 320 tub. Where did you install it?

DenverJaguar

webers3 said:

@pthomas745 I am considering it but at almost 13 inch length it would be a tight fit, if at all, in my 320 tub. Where did you install it?

I fit two Battleborns in the passenger wheel hub inside. One battery will easily fit there. 

webers3

@DenverJaguar Thank you, that means rerouting wires from the original battery to the new spot, little bit above my skills. Would like to fit  the new battery in the tub. Or, maybe you can provide the process you went through?

pthomas745

I have the Outback tub on my 2017.  The battery itself fits in there with no effort.  It wasn't until I removed the old battery and the battery box that I discovered how much room is in there.  Battery boxes..just waste so much space, and someone needs to come up with a better, less bulky design. Also: a lithium (or even an AGM) can be placed in any configuration, standing up or on its side, just not upside down.  The pictures here show the battery, not in a box, will fit easily in my tub.  In the battery box, it may have to sit in there a little "catty cornered".  That is my shunt in the white box in the way of the pictures.

webers3

@pthomas745Thanks, I like the setup but my tub is smaller, will take measurements again to see if it fits

CrabTab

webers3 said:

@pthomas745 I am considering it but at almost 13 inch length it would be a tight fit, if at all, in my 320 tub. Where did you install it?

@webers3 The battery I mentioned and the one @pthomas745 mentioned are both a group 31 size (12.95" long). My understanding is that only lead acid batteries require a box to catch any leaking electrolyte when charging. AGM and Lithium don't have that issue (although an AGM will vent gas too so can't be in a sealed box without a vent). Below is a pic of my group 31 AGM Renogy battery inside my tub. I did use some covers over the terminals (bought from NAPA) because I place some items in the tub during travel.


You can also barely make out the polycarbonate (Lexan) panels I added to the back of the tub to keep loose items from falling out. My Victron is mounted to one panel and there is a cutout in the middle panel to reach the battery cutoff switch.

CrabTab

@VictoriaP the only details I have are the specs listed on the Renogy site. I was hoping more inquisitive (and brighter) minds than mine would explore the product.

DenverJaguar

webers3 said:

@DenverJaguar Thank you, that means rerouting wires from the original battery to the new spot, little bit above my skills. Would like to fit  the new battery in the tub. Or, maybe you can provide the process you went through?

I had the dealership do it for me before I took possession. They dropped the bottom of the camper and ran wires to the battery location and up through the floor. They moved the battery cutoff to the sale location, as well as the shunt. The DC to DC charger I had them install went into the tub. So now I have a ton of open space in that tub to keep all the "wet" items (hoses, filter, and a small gas can for a generator) as well as chocks and leveling blocks. The battery weight is now right over the axle of the Tab instead of the tongue. 

Slackers

I am looking at the Renogy battery offer and note the 100Ah version is rated at 2000 cycles and I believe it has the low temp protection.  For our Tab's usage this is plenty adequate.   Had this battery been installed on most recent "boondock" overnight and subsequent lazy day of college football viewing.  There would have been no bit of (background) concern for stock battery health.
Edit: For comparison the Ampere Time battery has a 4000-7000 cycle time.  It does not have the Bluetooth built-in (to track it's state of charge).

pthomas745

@Slackers If you have a Victron monitor or shunt, or any of the other shunt/monitor devices, you can monitor state of charge and amp hour use with them, depending on the specific device.  I would suspect for the price of the Renogy they would have low temp protection.   What type of battery monitor does the Renogy have installed?  Just a simple voltage monitor?  Or does it provide amp hour use like a shunt monitor would?

webers3

@pthomas745 Do you recommend Ampere Time, I read mixed reviews.

Slackers

@pthomas745 you are right about the Victron monitor and shunt.  Renogy offers a built-in Bluetooth monitor paired w/ the BMS. The Renogy description and spec is somewhat sparse.  From the Gif they posted it looks to show percent of charge/Volt/Ah and projected life (time) before charge is required.  

pthomas745

@Slackers It is hard to tell what the Renogy "dongle" shows you, I wasn't able to find anything specific.  Call Renogy and ask.  "Does the monitor provide amp hours used"?  Will Prowse liked that battery in a tear down last year, so if you want to see what it looks like inside, his reviews are always informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aahHWaV6Zdk

@webers3 Seem like every time I look at any battery on Amazon the reviews are just awful.  It is impossible to tell much of anything from reviews when...there isn't enough info, or the person was trying to run a nuclear power plant or something.  I always look for return policies and warranties on any battery I've ever bought, even before Amazon existed. 

If you are up for it:  More Will Prowse.  He takes a clear eyed look at every battery he tests...and tears them apart and has a look. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUhjDkQY5Q

Slackers

The Renogy battery mentioned by @CrabTab is a new release not the one reviewed by young Will.  Scanning the Renogy website again for this new release doesn't list low temp charging protection but it does have low temp discharge protection.

CrabTab

Doing some more looking at Renogy, I noticed this battery @Slackers.

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery w/ Self-Heating Function | Renogy Solar

Looks like it will provide the charging protection in cold weather you're looking for. Not as cheap as the original one that I mentioned though. 

Slackers

Thanks @CrabTab, this looks very similar to the one reviewed by Will Prowse.  At 4000 cycles, it looks to be superior to the new one you originally posted about.

WayneW

I tried calling Renogy about whether the new battery has the cold temp charging protection feature.  Unfortunately there phone lines were down.  I did send them an email requesting this info.  So far they got back to me with a "Thanks for the interest" email but no answer yet.  When I get an answer I will post it.

The new battery is "only" rated for 2,000 discharge cycles.  But that means I can discharge it every day for the next 5.5 years.  That's not too bad.  Or if I use my trailer 100 days a year and discharge it 80% I will get 20 years.  Again, not too bad!

MarkAl

I just saw this post and checked the Renogy website - has it changed? They show "Charge temp range" of 32 F and up and "Discharge temp" down to -4 F. I believe are normal ranges. So is the issue a question of rating (don't do it) or protected (it won't charge/discharge)? I'm ready to buy if "protected" can be verified. I would move it inside the trailer as the installed wiring to the battery box is too long and not robust enough for my charging setup. As I use the SmartShunt to control charging, the Bluetooth is unimportant to me. Don't want or need added expense of "self-heating" but it must be protected.  But it's exciting to see this tech go down in price as they will make the new compressor refrigerator models much easier to dry camp for longer periods. 

pthomas745

Will Prowse tests the "below freezing charging protection circuits" that are built in for some battery management systems by...dropping them into a home deep freezer for hours.  So, this leads me to believe that MAYBE  it is the actual battery cells that need to be below freezing temperatures before damage can occur.  This type of protection is important for "fixed" installations that might be exposed to long periods of freezing temperatures in remote locations.  And, remember the problem is "charging while the battery is below freezing", not just....the battery is below freezing.  There are solar controllers with temp protection  circuits that will shut off charging when the air temp goes below freezing, apparently.

I've asked this question over on Will Prowse's forum page.  Is it the battery cell temps going below freezing that causes charging damage?  Or is it just the "ambient air temp" that causes damage?

MarkAl

From what I've read, you can discharge below freezing but not charge (seems odd but may be direction of current and temperature) and why discharge is a lower temp. It is quite clear that you do not want to charge below freezing and why they have the heating blankets that kick on only when charging (and takes part of the charging current to heat). From where I live I'm not worried about discharge temps, only that I can limit charging below 32 F. Though if the battery disconnected at that temp it would be good also. I don't remember reading much on when  the state change temperature of the cells is reached but it makes sense that there is a lower temp where they shouldn't be stored.

Dutch061

@pthomas745, I believe that all Victron Solar Charge Controllers have a setting for "low temperature cutoff". I have mine set to 41 degrees even thought the BB's have it built into the BMS. On our 2020 400 BDL with the batteries under the bed, I believe that using the Alde will always provide enough heat to keep them far above freezing but I also have the temperature sensor installed with my BMV-712 so that I can actually see the temperature in the battery compartment. 

It is not discharging that causes a problem below 32, only trying to charge them that can cause permanent cell damage and other more serious issues. Storing or discharging in below freezing temperatures is completely safe with BB.

I can't speak to other brands because I done my research on BB only. It was that research and other things that guided my decision on which brand of Lithium batteries to purchase and not the price. In my past experience, anytime I buy something based on price I am never satisfied until I buy what I actually wanted. There was a saying at a company I worked for a few years ago: "I would rather apologize once for the price, rather then many times for the quality".  

By no means am I stating that Renogy batteries are in any way subpar or not a good choice for the OP's needs or for others. As in all things, do your own research and make your own decision based on your needs and budget. Ask others if they are happy with their decisions and if they would make the same decision again, etc. 

Brad

pthomas745

@Dutch061 I totally understand what you mean about "paying for what you need".  I live in a warm place, and never really "want" to hit freezing weather.  The choice of a battery without "temperature protection" built into the battery management was a comfortable one for me.  In the Will Prowse video on the Ampere Time battery I bought he says he "can't recommend" it because of the lack of that protection, but.......points out there are other ways to get that protection. Along with every other thing about batteries, it took me a while to sort out the pros and cons of it all.

CrabTab

Dutch061 said:

By no means am I stating that Renogy batteries are in any way subpar or not a good choice for the OP's needs or for others. As in all things, do your own research and make your own decision based on your needs and budget. Ask others if they are happy with their decisions and if they would make the same decision again, etc. 

Brad

First I want to mention I don't think anyone considers your remarks disparaging Renogy @Dutch061 . Your insights to what you've learned are always quite valuable, across the forum. 

I started this discussion after noticing the big price drop in the cost per Amp Hour of Renogy Lithium batteries. This past winter they offered a 170AH Lithium battery for about $1800 (price has dropped since). This equates to $10.58 per AH. The new battery I started this discussion about is 200AH for about $1000 or $5 per AH. That was something I found significant and worth sharing

Full disclosure too, I am not in the market for a new battery. After doing quite a bit of research (and fretting about potential choices), in May I purchased the Renogy 100AH AGM that I mentioned later in this discussion. I paired it with 200W (overkill) of solar for my 320 with a three way fridge that we use on propane when dry camping

During my ‘research’ phase I tried to use the collective expertise the forum. Here are some things that went in to my choice

1.Thinking about moving a battery from the tub to inside to protect from  weather/freezing here:

Lithium or AGM Battery Mounted Inside a 320 Cabin? (vanillacommunity.com)

2. Wondering about the need to add DC to DC charge protection due to Lithium here:

 DC to DC Charger Needed With Lithium Batteries? (vanillacommunity.com)

3. I also read several discussions related to the need to upgrade the converter to better charge Lithium batteries.

I did some measurement of tongue weight on my trailer to determine the effect of a lighter (Lithium) battery or removing the battery from the tub and shared my findings here:

 What (I Think) I've Learned About Tongue Weight on a 320 (vanillacommunity.com)

Spoiler alert- Ultimately I found that even with the stock lead/acid battery my tongue weight was teetering on too light percentage wise. This helped my decision to go with the heavier group 31 AGM and keep it in the tub.

The Lithium choice just didn’t check off enough items on my Plus/Delta list at the time of my purchase. The weight and cost of the 200AH battery to start this discussion has me contemplating my life’s choices… well, some of them anyhow…

AnOldUR

CrabTab said:

The weight and cost of the 200AH battery to start this discussion has me contemplating my life’s choices… well, some of them anyhow…

I followed the same thought process as you (probably influenced by your posts) and made the decision to go with a couple of 125Ah AGM's. This thread has me second guessing that decision, but hoping that at the end of the 5-10 year life of the AGM's there will be even better price/performance choices.

dragonsdofly

This is an interesting discussion of batteries, their properties and pairing with individual needs, and I take all information as offered honestly based on everyone's individual experiences. It is enjoyable to read through all of these facts and see what choices were made and why. Thanks for your generosity of time and experience to this ever evolving but always incredible forum.

The attitude (and in no way do I sense any disparaging of anyone or any product in all of your comments) is wonderful and sharing. I  too have done a lot of battery research and ended up with 2 completely different conclusions because of surrounding circumstance.

For our t@b, we have a 125 ah, flooded wet  cell, group 31 battery. Paired with only 80 watts of plug in solar and 3 way fridge, it keeps us mobile and allows for spur of the moment choices and adventures. This set up completely suits our t@b needs and travel style.

While preparing for full-time rv life and travel (beginning in about a month), we have opted for a 600 ah BB battery bank, 1.4 K of solar, 2 50 amp charge controllers, and a 3,000 watt inverter, auto switched on demand. This system is on a 30' 10,000 lb gvw tt. Different life style, different needs, very different conclusion. Yes, full-time rv life. No longer calling it "camping". -Denise

Sharon_is_SAM

@dragonsdofly - Denise - please tell us your upcoming travel plans!  Start a new thread on full time travel!