one year anniversary with my 2014 T@B and... dead lithium battery

Mellow_Yellow

I received so much helpful advice and support earlier this year when my T@B was brand new (to me) and I upgraded from a dead wet cell to a 100 Ah lithium battery. One bit of advice I received was to expect that I would kill my first battery, whether it was a wet cell or a lithium battery. But I was determined to defy this statistic!
I am dismayed to report that my lithium battery started to die after about 6 months and it was well and truly gonzo during my recent very cold camping trip 2 weeks ago. So I turned off the propane, turned off the battery, and went to sleep in my sleeping bag so that I was safe and would not be woken up by nasty alarms. Still, I felt sad to use my T@B like a tent. 
Where did I go wrong? I did all the things I was supposed to do and none of the things I wasn't supposed to do. I kept a careful eye on the charge level, used a battery monitor, stored it with no passive drain and not too fully charged/decharged, etc.  One possibility is that the extreme heat waves we had this past year in the Pacific NW might be to blame. The downward spiral definitely started shortly afterward. I also wonder to what degree my TV and older RV converter were able to adequately charge the lithium battery. So many unknowns but I am hoping for more compassionate responses to this post than "I told you so".
One minor miracle was that the lithium battery manufacturer provided a replacement battery, which I will either return for a refund or re-sell. 
So now, I am starting over with a new ~80 Ah AGM battery that I keep on a trickle charger connected via the SAE port when not in use. So far it feels easy and worry free. I ran a 3-hour "boondocking" test in the driveway and feel confident that if I continue to be miserly with my power consumption and keep an eye on the battery monitor as I have learned to do, the AGM should be a better fit for my TV and converter. I still have the solar panel, but at the 49th parallel and in dense rainforest, its use is "seasonal" at best.
Leaving you with a photo of my last camping trip - Lake Cowichan, Vancouver Island. Worth it! Even with a dead battery in my T@B "tent".

Grumpy_G

Curious about the battery manufacturer. It's certainly not typical that a Li-Ion battery dies that quickly, after all the higher number of cycles is a selling point. Li-Ion batteries are a little more picky with temperatures though which is the main reason I still use lead-acid batteries (plus I'm a luddite). The battery management system of Li-Ion batteries should prevent damage to the cells but very few products have low temp charging protection. Here in Central Oregon you can get freezing night temps at higher elevations during the summer, sun comes up, solar panel starts charging and the battery gets damaged. Or hooking up and getting on the road early could do damage as well. 

pthomas745

@Grumpy_G has mentioned the "low temperature charging protection".  I don't know enough about it yet, but lithium batteries can be damaged when they are charged in conditions "below freezing."  I haven't figured out yet if that means:  the air temperature is below freezing, or, the actual battery cells are below freezing.  The batteries that supposedly have "low temperature charging protection" just have a tiny sensor dangling off the battery management system.  Not as robust as I thought it would be.

I've become a Will Prowse fan on his You Tube channel.  After watching him take a saw and break open a lithium battery (every type and price) and show the actual inner workings, most of the mystery and aura around lithium batteries has disappeared for me.  Most of the battery components across brands are the same, or very close.  I'm not so sure any more that the major differences in price for the "name brand" batteries mentioned over and over are really worth it.  If a "major name brand premium price" lithium uses the same temperature sensor component as a battery 50 percent cheaper......is it worth it?

So, like most of these components: solar panels, batteries, etc.....these items have become  commodities, and what we need to shop is return policies and warranties.  I'm glad the battery is an easy swap. 

In this video, Will finds a 350 dollar lithium that has a temp protection sensor.  Note that it is just a small "dongle" hanging from the battery monitor system.  About 1:30 in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c6A1THDaeU&t=301s

Dutch061

First, I wouldn't pass it off as it being a Lithium problem. As @Grumpy_G asked about the battery manufacturer, I would be curious also.

I am only able to speak intelligently to Battleborn and I realize that not all of what I am going to list below applies to other brands. I chose BB because of the BMS, 10 year warranty, and USA Built .

1. High Temperature cutoff is 135 F at which point the battery will not accept a charge or discharge
2. Low Temperature cutoff is 25F at which point the battery will not accept a charge. You can continue to discharge to -4F without damage
3. Charging voltage (for Bulk) is 14.2 to 14.6 Volts
4. Storage at any SOC 50% or greater disconnecting from any charge or discharge source with a recommended temperature of  -10F to 140F 

It would be my suspicion (without knowing the particulars of the battery you bought) that even though you may not have had the proper converter that your failure is most likely related to "battery quality" rather than your summer temperatures. I know you had heat, but I doubt it exceeded the max temperature. However, without knowing the particulars of your battery, again I am not able to refer to facts. Also, if the battery was possibly being charged outside the temperature window it may have been damaged. 

If I had a failure after 1 or 2 years, I would be quite unhappy too. Rather than going backwards to AGM, I would try and determine Root Cause.

Brad

dsfdogs

@Dutch061 and anyone with Battleborn batteries, they have a YouTube channel filled with short Q&A videos well worth your time. 

@Mellow_Yellow I'm sorry for your troubles. I can only speak to BB batteries. Extended use in extreme heat over 100*F or below freezing temps will temporarily shorten life and cause out of balance cells, which also temporarily shortens life. Their BMS will shut down the battery in extreme cold so we can't try to charge it, which damages the battery. Their batteries need to be charged to 14.4 weekly to rebalance. While the stock converter will not do that, a separate battery charger like the Noco 10amp set to lithium will. I don't have solar so can't speak to that.

Denny16

From the research I have done, a properly sized solar setup (100-watts or more per 100 amps) will charge up Lithium (if using a good MPPT controller like the Victron) to balance its cells at 14.4 VDC.  This is how many of the off grid power setups based on Lithium batteries work, including the Tesla Power Wall lithium battery bank.
cheers

Mellow_Yellow

Thank you everyone! The battery brand is https://www.lynaclithium.com/, a Canadian firm. I live in the mild Pacific NW and I definitely did not charge the battery in cold weather, which we rarely get. I'm shipping the dead battery back to the manufacturer and will let you know if they provide any analysis about why it died.

Mickerly

The tow vehicle alternator and charging circuit are not designed for Lithium charging. The stock charge controller on your trailer is not recommended for a Lithium battery. Unless you changed the programming, the Victron unit is set up for lead acid. How much of your system did you change to work with the new Lithium battery?

Mellow_Yellow

Hi @Mickerly - I’m not aware that my 2014 T@B has a Victron unit. I made no changes to the charging system and I agree that lithium is not as compatible or as easy to maintain as an AGM or wet cell on an older trailer like mine. 

I’m out this weekend on the first boondocking trip with my new AGM. So far, it’s holding its charge well and meeting my needs!

Mickerly

I have a 2018; no solar. When you said you have solar I assumed you had a factory install.

We've been camping with hookups. Next year we have our first 'without hookup' event. So, I'm really curious about other peoples adventures before I start mine. We're looking at going AGM battery and portable solar panel.

In the summer in central Texas, camping without air conditioning doesn't work. No hookups is a winter thing here. I can't justify the cost of Lithium for 2 or 3 outings of the 15 or so trips per year. 

Just curious about how things work before I start upgrades.

Denny16

The Victron controller is only found in TaB that have either a nüCamp factory installed Solar option, or a dealer installed solar system, where they used a Victron MPPT, but not all dealer installs used the Victron.  So Mellow Yellow does not have a Victron solar controller, I believe she has a solar suitcase with a SAE port on her TaB.
cheers