Winter travel

jgpell14

Hello everyone! I'm looking ahead to some travel next year and I'm confused about winterizing. I'm going to be leaving from a cold/freezing climate (with a stop or 2), going to warm climate where I'm going to want to use all systems, then retuning to cold/freezing climate (again with a stop or 2). How do I protect my systems during the cold stops without winterizing and having them available for my stay in the warm places?

Thanks for your help in un-confusing me.

Sharon_is_SAM

For a 2022 400:

1.  You will depart from home already winterized.  Then, during your cold stops you can use disposable waste bags in the toilet and/or add lots of antifreeze as your flush agent.  Use bottled water for drinking and cooking to avoid using the water system.  You can use the Alde for cabin heat.

2.  Then dewinterize when you get to a warm weather area.
3.  You will need to rewinterize prior to departing for freezing temperatures and repeat #1 above.

You can’t really protect your system without winterizing in some fashion.  You can either choose to add antifreeze throughout your plumbing, or use the blow out method so there will be no need to thoroughly flush your plumbing.

Also, you can stay at places that have bathrooms and showers or stop at a hotel during your travel in cold weather.  That’s what we do.  

Michigan_Mike

I’m getting ready to travel from Michigan out to New Mexico right after Christmas.  Sharon is correct, travel from the freeze zone to warm region in a winterized mode.  I carry a couple of gallons of pink RV antifreeze and you can flush the toilet with that.  I heat water up fur coffee in our tea kettle and pour that through our coffee pot and normally have a snack for breakfast.  I carry a small creamer in the fridge for the coffee and whatever else you need.  It is about a three day trip out and I plan my travel around the weather and monitor things closely and will drive out of my way to avoid snow, ice, etc.  I dump the trailer once I am in New Mexico as there is a free dump station about an hour from our place.  

Safe travels to you!  

jgpell14

Thanks Sharon and Mike. Greatly appreciated. It all makes sense now and I can picture the process.

ChanW

And be sure to (re)winterize your black and gray gate (drain) valves...

ChanW

Mike.
Jealous.
Enjoy!

JeffroNC

We have been in the TAB in cold weather and it has been pretty easy. We just had our last freezing night for a while on our trip south from MI. Temps were 40’s to mid 20’s but now won’t get below 40. We started with antifreeze in the lines and the black and grey tanks. We switched over to water mode in TN. We had a couple of nights with freezing temps with water in the lines but our Tab has handled this many times. If it were to get much colder, I would blow out the lines and dump.
It takes a while for the Alde to get going when it has been cold all day and we stop for the night. The stove will heat the air but our memory foam topper is like a brick until the Alde gets it warm. (Right before it gets too hot as in my other thread. LOL)

[Deleted User]

Yes! Weird when your bed is frozen! I never camp in the cold but one year I went out to look under the bed to do a small project and the mattress was frozen! 

Michigan_Mike

ChanW said:

Mike.
Jealous.
Enjoy!

Come on down Chan!  Besides, you need a break from those Buffalo winters and lake effect snow.  We’ll save you a spot!  😂👍🏻

JoED

Thanks to all! We're heading out for our first major trip the end of February, three weeks PA to FL and back again! Hoping temps will be above freezing on our return but '22 has been cold! Any thoughts on how cold The 400 can tolerate overnight? @JeffroNC you seem to have experience with this! There is enough to think/worry about changing from tents to a trailer without damaging the water lines. 

Denny16

I went winter camping once in a Class C and freezing the water lines is not your only issue.  My GF didn’t want to run the forced air heater at night whilst we slept, and we woke up in the morning to a frozen water tank, so no water.  The water lines and tank were not damaged, thankfully.

A TaB has its water lines inside the cabin area, so the Alde will keep them from freezing, but the fresh water and gray holding tanks are under the trailer, where they can freeze if it gets cold enough.  Also the biggest area of freeze damage are the gray and black tank drain lines and gate valve that are the most exposed, and will freeze quickly in weather below 32F.  The freezing temps could crack the gate valve body, if the water trapped in it freezes and expands.

You can protect the holding tank gate vale and drain lines by filling them with RV antifreeze.  Drain your freshwater and gray tanks, and use the antifreeze to flush the toilet when it gets below freezing temps.  There are other alternatives to using the toilet in cold weather, previously posted here.  Try doing a search on Winter Campimg.  

Cheers 

[Deleted User]

Agree with Denny16, any temps 32 and below (for more than just a few hours) you are risking freeze damage. Flush only with antifreeze.  Your best bet is to dry camp on your way down (and back) and re-winterize before you return home. Its really easy and only takes about 15 minutes. The water system in T@bs is not designed to be used in the winter without some modifications like adding heating pads to the gray and FW tanks, heat wrap cables on the entire dump valve system. 

ChanW

Heh! Mike! I just got your invite! Thank you!

Perchance, can I get a rain check til March? The skiing is amazing this year!

Darn right I'm gonna work on getting time off for another March excursion. Our last one was interrupted by some strange "pandemic" that came along while we were in NM. Maybe we'll make it down there before the ski hills close this year! 

Michigan_Mike said:

ChanW said:

Mike.
Jealous.
Enjoy!

Come on down Chan!  Besides, you need a break from those Buffalo winters and lake effect snow.  We’ll save you a spot!  😂👍🏻

jgpell14

Thanks

ReenieG

I'm an AZ gal so we don't typically winterize. We never have a need to and I don't camp in winter weather but...

I'm camping in West Yellowstone this week & the forecast for 3 of the 6 days is 40s daytime with 20s at night.

After that the weather will be above freezing at night again.

I'm already out camping and am dumping my tanks this morning but have a full fresh water tank.

If I drop my fresh water & flush and fill drains with antifreeze should I be ok until after the weather warms?

I'll be in my T@B with electric for those 3 days so the heat will definitely be on. TIA

BridgerSunset

That should serve you pretty well.  A heated cabin should keep the Nautilus area warm enough.  But West Yellowstone can easily be in the teens this time of year, and the compartment outside wall & floor is pretty thin.  Maybe stuffing some insulation makes sense there.  I'd at least drain the outside shower & leave its valves open.  That caught me once.   
We live just north of there, and still haven't dewinterized or even seeded garden yet.  One thing I've  learned living in ND/ MT for 40 years is that water will freeze if it's allowed to......

ReenieG

@BridgerSunset when you say "that caught me once," what do you mean?

I don't have the nautilus setup. I have a 2018 320S but still. I've emptied my grey & black tanks but have my fresh water full so far.

I haven't used the outside shower so doubt there's water or much in there, but I can open the valves.

I've had a convo w another T@Ber camping in Alaska multiple times, so basically similar temps. He's been keeping his fresh water tank full & says that a full tank of 11 gals doesn't have enough time to freeze overnight with it being in the 40s during the daytime warming up some.

He's had no freezing problems.

I just don't know...

BridgerSunset

If your piping is inside, you're good.

I think it was mid-May when a cold night caught me having water in the camper, specifically in the shower valve manifold inside that plastic Nautilus area.  The point where the hot/cold mixes apparently had cracked from freezing.  I don't recall what ambient temp was, but seemed to be high teens.  I had heat on, but at way too a low setting.

If exposed to a hard freeze, it's those confined points where water can't freely expand that merit concern, especially plastic parts.   I agree the tank itself shouldn't have an issue, but its drain valve (if located outside) might need covered.

Denny16

The tank not freezing is a good thought, unless in prolonged 20s or colder.  But I had a 12-15 galling water tank, located under the dinette seat, freeze over night in a Motorhome I rented and took camping in the mountains during ski season, night time temps,were in the 20s and my GF didn’t want to leave the heater on whilst we were sleeping.  The next morning we didn’t have water, running the heater during the day didn’t thaw it back out either.  The tanks was only 2/3s fill, so had room to expand.  No damage or leaks once it thawed out halfway back to SanDiego. 

ReenieG

@Denny16 your story completely makes sense re the frozen tank. I've heard of that happening before.

I've been told it's less likely to freeze if I keep it completely full since more water takes longer to freeze, but why risk no expansion room.

I think either completely draining the fresh water or 2/3 full would be prudent along with some antifreeze poured into the traps of the grey & black tanks and checking the outdoor shower for any water there.

@BridgerSunset I wish I was better at knowing where any of these points of concern are located, ie; any points not protected by heat.

I'll have to hope for the best since this was very unplanned for but here I am & I feel like I may be fretting over nothing, but then again...

bergger

Glad I have not de-winterized yet!  After beautiful week of sunny skies and warm weather we are set to get 12-20" of snow from friday to sat.  I guess I'll have to get the snow blower out one more time.  I'm ready to get the 400 out and camp!