2022 T@B 400: Power ALL 110V outlets with inverter?

pforster

We got our new 2022 T@B400 and are very happy with it. When we ordered it, I had nuCamp install a larger inverter (2000W), and was expecting that all 110V outlets would be powered by it when not on shore power and using the inverter. However, only the outlet in the cubby by the bed, and the one for the TV are active, the other ones only work when on shore power. How difficult would it be to rewire so that all outlets are powered by the inverter when on battery? Is it as simple as "disconnect from WFCO center and connect to inverter", or what needs to be done? 

This is not because I want to use all outlets at the same time, but I need the ability to plug in where it is most convenient, rather than running an extension cord through the entire camper from  the bed cubby to the dinette, for example. And if I really want to use the microwave for 30s to warm something up, I want that ability, too (not planning to use it for heating whole meals). We have a 300Ah Li battery, so we're not that short on battery juice.

All pointers and explanations are greatly appreciated.

Dutch061

We have a 2020 and the outlet by the sink wasn't part of the loop. Got tired of setting my coffee pot or toaster on the floor (cords aren't long enough to reach the table) so I added the sink outlet. It was a matter of disconnecting from the breaker panel and routing inside the box for the outlet under the bench. Took about as long to do it as type this message.

Brad

RMo

We added an inverter to our 2019 T@B.  It didn't have one originally so it would be a bit different for you.  I would think you could just run the inverter output into your main power input (30amp) line as it enters the camper, instead of having it run to only one outlet.  We had to add a contactor switch to prevent self-charging of our battery from the inverter, and a transfer switch to give AC priority when it was available, but I assume they have dealt with those issues in some way at the factory.  You'd want to be sure to connect to the 30amp input on the correct side of these switches.  My guess is that it should be fairly easy to do.  Maybe someone can share insights into the wiring of the inverter from the factory and how they manage AC priority and self-charging issues.  Good luck!

Denny16

Depending on the model inverter, and if it has its own auto transfer setup when it gets a 120VAC feed from the WaCo shore power, you could connect the outlets in two banks one on each side and connect them to the two AC outlets on the inverter.  I would not run the output from the inverter to the WaCo 30-amp input, as you will create a feedback loop in the invert’s auto transfer system, and it will try to switch to shore power, which is not there.  

That said, a 2K inverter is not the right inverter to power the entire trailer, you need at least a 3K inverter (a 2K Amy not even work a Microwave oven) and 300 amps of battery.  A 2K inverter works OK with 200 amp battery bank.  You might look at just adding a front dinette outlet to the inverter AC side, and not the entire TaB AC outlets.

If you are not familiar with marine/RV electrical systems, get a good RV service department to make this change for you.  The trailer you save, may be your own.
 Cheers 

RFraer

How difficult would it be to rewire so that all outlets are powered by the inverter when on battery?

It’s not that difficult but you need a basic understanding of electrical wiring both AC & DC. I am not sure why all your outlets are not working. Are you turning on your inverter? And does your 2K inverter have a transfer switch?

Is it as simple as "disconnect from WFCO center and connect to inverter", or what needs to be done?

NuCamp wires the inverter after the WFCO center because it is not meant to power the entire camper. When you upgrading batteries and inverters to power the air conditioner and microwave generally the inverter is moved to before the WFCO center so the inverter can power the MAIN AC bus which is the top 30 amp breaker in the power center. I don’t know which 2k inverter was used on your 400 but to me 2000 watts  to small to power the AC power bus in the 400.

pforster

The inverter that was installed is the AIMS Power PWRIX200012SUL 2000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter with Transfer Switch 12 VDC to 120 VAC ETL, so it does have a transfer switch. I have no intention to even try to run the AC on battery/inverter, I just want all of the outlets to have power, and on a rare occasion maybe run the microwave for 30 seconds (say to warm up a cup of chocolate milk).

RFraer

My understanding is that the 120v outlets are all on the same circuit, why in your case only two outlets work  when the inverter is running is puzzling. Unfortunately the Microwave is on a different circuit then the inverter so no microwave when boondocking. You may have to take it back to your dealer so they can trace the wiring.

Denny16

The nüCamp factory Inverter Ac outlet wiring goes directly from the inverter’s two AC power outputs to the two powered AC outlets, which is shynthe inverter needs to be turned on, even when connected to shore power, before those two outlets will work.  The inverter is connected to one of the AC bus connections on the WaCo power supply, and when on shore power, switches the inverter from battery to shore power on the two inverter outlets.

Also, the inverter would not power the Fridge on AC (too large a draw) and runnjng the AC buss on the WaCo, would kick the fridge to AC, Same for the FoolCar AC.  So you are going to need a separate bus for the AC outlets you want powered by the Inverter.  You can not power the WaCo AC buss from the 2K watt inverter, it is not big enough as previously pointed out by RFraer.

As I previously mentioned, a 2K inverter will not run the factory nüCamp installed microwave wave either.  I tried powering a smaller (portable) microwave with a 1800 watt AMIS inverter with a 2K surge, and it ran the microwave for only 15-20 seconds and then shut off, a cup of water in the microwave was not even hot, just slightly warm.  You need a 3K inverter (which requires 300 amps of battery power) to run the larger Microwave installed in the TaB.

Cheers

RMo

Denny16 said:…..As I previously mentioned, a 2K inverter will not run the factory nüCamp installed microwave wave either.  I tried powering a smaller (portable) microwave with a 1800 watt AMIS inverter with a 2K surge, and it ran the microwave for only 15-20 seconds and then shut off, a cup of water in the microwave was not even hot, just slightly warm.  You need a 3K inverter (which requires 300 amps of battery power) to run the larger Microwave installed in the TaB.

If it ran for 15 seconds it probably wasn’t the surge, so I think a 2k inverter could do it.  I suspect you had the same problem as I did - I started with 2awg wire for the 15 inch run between the battery and the inverter, and the microwave would run for about a minute before the circuit kicked off.  On advice from Signature Solar (the battery seller) I replaced these wires with 00 gauge and it now runs “forever.”  YMMV

Denny16

Interesting, I have no @ AWG cable for a 6 to 8-inch run, withnthe fuse in the middle, and that is not the issue for mine.  The Inverter kicks on to 2,000 watt mode for up to 30 seconds, runs the microwave and than goes back to 1600-1800 watts kicking off the microwave , I am thinking it is only putting out around 1200-1600 watts, and the inverter is miss labeled.  It looks like the current AMIS Inverter nüCamp is using.  I think a 2500 watt inverter would be a Goldilocks size inverter for the microwave.  This spring, I plan to look into getting one installed.

pforster

Denny16 said:

The nüCamp factory Inverter Ac outlet wiring goes directly from the inverter’s two AC power outputs to the two powered AC outlets, which is shynthe inverter needs to be turned on, even when connected to shore power, before those two outlets will work.  The inverter is connected to one of the AC bus connections on the WaCo power supply, and when on shore power, switches the inverter from battery to shore power on the two inverter outlets.

The two outlets in our 400 that are powered by the inverter when on battery are also powered when on shore power WITHOUT the inverter being switched on (does not matter if it is switched on or off).

bergger

pforster said:

Denny16 said:

The nüCamp factory Inverter Ac outlet wiring goes directly from the inverter’s two AC power outputs to the two powered AC outlets, which is shynthe inverter needs to be turned on, even when connected to shore power, before those two outlets will work.  The inverter is connected to one of the AC bus connections on the WaCo power supply, and when on shore power, switches the inverter from battery to shore power on the two inverter outlets.

The two outlets in our 400 that are powered by the inverter when on battery are also powered when on shore power WITHOUT the inverter being switched on (does not matter if it is switched on or off).

This is correct.  Our 2021 is the same and I think that may have been the year that they made that change.  If on shore power the inverter does not need to be turned on to power any outlets that are wired to it.  The 2021 only has the one in the cubby wired to it.  It would be nice if the one in the kitchen was so I would not need a small extension cord for our coffee pot when off grid.  

Denny16

Having the inverter powered outlets work on shore power without the inverter turned on is a change from how it was first installed.  Some TaBs work this way, and others have reported the inverter needed to be on to transfer shore power to the inverter outlets.  Not sure when the change was made.  

Cheers 

mjwaldner

Dutch061 said:

We have a 2020 and the outlet by the sink wasn't part of the loop. Got tired of setting my coffee pot or toaster on the floor (cords aren't long enough to reach the table) so I added the sink outlet. It was a matter of disconnecting from the breaker panel and routing inside the box for the outlet under the bench. Took about as long to do it as type this message.

Brad

We did that same thing. Not sure why they thought that one outlet was important enough to put on the inverter. The only thing I can think of is that most of the outlets in the 400 need to be GFIC protected. And maybe they can not do that with the inverter and have it meet the RV codes. 

Denny16

You can use a GFI with an Inverter, but there are some issues and precautions, described here: http://maze.airstreamlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Xantrex-inverter-GFCI-Tech_Note_018.pdf
cheers

pforster

I ended up running a wire from the bed cubby outlet to the outlet by the dinette. In that outlet, I disconnected the incoming wire and instead connected the new wire. That outlet also has a wire going on to the outlet in the bathroom, which I left connected. Now I have the dinette and bathroom outlets, as well as the bedd cubby and TV outlets running off the inverter when on battery, which is really all I needed. The only otlets not running off the inverter now are the one in the kitchen by the door, the outside ones, and the microwave. I can live without these, or may add them (except the microwave) to the TV outlet wire later.

Spectre9

I am actually in process of doing this myself to 2018 320S Outback except I’m not running all  outlets just one GFCI circuit with a transfer switch.  In our case our AC doesn’t go above 700 watts from battery so can power on lithium.

I might go whole house later but first I will confirm endurance and heat parameters in the intended installation location for inverter.

if you do go whole house the chief concern is safely disconnecting the power converter so that the ac/dc battery charger is always disabled via interlock when inverter is running.

go power ts-30 has a diagram of this setup with a “fuse” but I’m using a simpler setup that is also smaller - Wfco t-30.  The larger model would have some location issues in a tiny 320.

Let me add the only appliance we have that go over 999 watts are a hairdryer and the Alde. We have managed to find toaster oven, coffee machine and instant pot below  1k.

Ksublett

So in the 2020 Tab 400 Boondock is the only outlet that is usable from the inverter the one in the bedside cubby?  I am getting ready to Boondock and assumed all the outlets would work…bad assumption.  

Denny16

Yes and no.  Some T@B400s in this build series had a second outlet active from the inverter, up front under the dinette seat, but nüCamp kept changing which outlets worked on the inverter.  A quick test would be easy to do to be sure which ones are working on your trailer.  Disconnect shore lower, turn on the inverter and plug an outlet tester into the cubby, washroom and dinette outlets.  The galley outlets are shore power only, as the inverter si not big enough to handle most AC kitchen appliances, including the microwave.

Cheers