Do we really need that aluminum platform on the trailer tongue?

kottum

Hello folks, my first post.  We have a new T@b 400 BD on order and intend to use a weight distribution hitch with our 2021 Honda Ridgeline.  A well-installed w.d. hitch will give us sway control and return much of the weight the tab removes from our truck's steering axle.  The hitch assembly must carry some 400 lbs tongue weight (loaded for travel), plus the hitch itself, plus weight of gear we put in the truck bed behind the truck's rear axle.

Nearly all w.d. hitches need the rear supporting brackets installed on the frame where the aluminum platform and propane tank cover reside.  I cannot imagine us carrying anything on the platform adding to the tongue weight, so the platform itself adds unneeded tongue weight.  On the T@b 400, there also appears to be extra frame reinforcing in the C-channel frame in that area, that does not exist forward of the platform.  So a better location to contain the forces of the w.d. hitch.

If the platform was removed, the installation of many weight distribution hitches would be simplified.  For example a Camco Recurve.  Even then, we may have to put square aluminum tube (for example) under the propane tank cover to raise the cover and gain clearance for the brackets.

The maximum hitch weight for our Honda Ridgeline is 600 lbs, and trailer weight plus gear and passengers in the truck is limited to 5000 lbs.  We have towed larger Airstream trailers for years, and have learned the benefits and safety of properly installed w.d. hitches.  I wouldn't tow the T@ab 400 with our Ridgeline or a similarly sized vehicle without one.  I have seen some feel they must get a larger truck for stability, when a good weight distribution hitch and loading system would do the job beautifully.

So, do we really need the aluminum platform, thoughts? 

Denny16

You are going to find, the TaB tows much easier than most Airstream trailers.  A 2022 TaB400 has around a 300-325 lbs tongue weight when it is loaded, unlike the earlier TaB400s, which were heavier.  With a total loaded max weight of 3900 lbs and a dry weight of 2800 lbs, the TaB400 is well within the Ridgeline’s towing capacity, and should not require a WD hitch.  A 300-350 lbs load on the Ridgeline’s hitch should not reduce the weight on the truck’s front axle, as a heavier trailer would.

That said, nüCamp only recommends one WD hitch for the TaB, which mounts forward of the front Tub box.  You can not mount most WD highest on the TaB’s frame.   You need to do a search here for Weight Distribution hitches before planning on adding one of your TaB400.

I tow one of the earlier TaB400s, with a 400-450 lbs tongue weight with a Jeep Gladiator, rated at 6000 lbs and 600 lbs tongue weight.  The TaB only drops the truck from being an inch high in the back down to level.  Front steering is normal, and I do not use a WD.  I have not had any sway issues either, or feeling of instability.
 Cheers 

dragonsdofly

@kottum, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your trailer. Most of us will customize our trailer to suit our needs and camping style. I have what is akin to a 320, but have joined in other discussions regarding other forms of trailer customization. I personally don't see why you can't remove the platform. That being said, the weight of the platform was considered to attain proper tongue weight for the t@b 400. If you remove the platform and properly compensate for the weight change, i'm pretty sure there is no problem, but I am certainly not an engineer, so it is merely an opinion.

However, the t@b has a "C" channel frame and nüCamp does not recommend a wdh on any of the t@bs. If you towed a larger Airstream, you know they do not have the lighter weight "C" channel frame, but a larger, heavier tubular frame which can handle a wdh. Putting a wdh on any t@b is not recommended. There are models of wdh on the market that can be installed on a t@b, but that then begs the question just because you can install a wdh, should you?
And again, just my opinion, not scientific fact. Please also check your insurance coverage, as installing equipment not recommended by the manufacturer may be problematic should there ever be an incident. 

Now, I know there are members here who have installed a wdh. They will make claims they have done what you are considering and everything is ok. That is absolutely true, until the moment it isn't. Good luck whatever you decide. Again, welcome.

[Deleted User]

I ordered my 2022 400 without the platform. I don't want the extra tongue weight of the platform itself or anything that would be carried in them.  

[Deleted User]

You can use a WDH on the T@b. You just can't use the clamping style support brackets. You have to use the kind that bolt around the frame or a bolt through hanger style. There are several good threads on this topic. I will find and update my post. I have spoken directly with NuCamp on the use of a WDH and they said its OK except for clamping style. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8289/best-weight-distribution-hitch-for-t-b-400

Dutch061

@kottum,

I wish to clarify your comment regarding " trailer weight plus gear and passengers in the truck is limited to 5000 lbs."

1. There is a payload capacity rating for your vehicle, and I am positive it is not 5000 lbs. The payload capacity is the maximum weight that can be added to your vehicle, this includes passengers, cargo, tongue weight of the trailer, etc. The Payload Capacity added to the Curb Weight should equal the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. It is not a good idea to exceed the payload capacity or GVW. This information should be posted on the label in the driver's door jamb. 

2. Axle weight rating for both front and rear axles of your vehicle, again you should stay within these ratings.

3. GCVW - Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating, this is the total allowable weight including the trailer.

4. GVW - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.

Just don't want you to be misguided, my apologies if I am not understanding your post correctly.

As far as the platform, you can certainly remove it if you don't want to use it. I am sure that you could sell it if you desired to.

Brad

kottum

Regarding towing capacity on the 2021 Ridgeline of 5000 lbs.  If you add the Ridgeline Black Edition curb weight, towing capacity, and payload capacity you will exceed its Gross Combined Vehicle Weight rating (GCVW) by just over 1,000 lbs.  Honda resolves this discrepancy by suggesting the actual tow capacity is the trailer weight plus gear and passengers carried in the truck and truck bed.  

This indicates trailer tongue weight may be subtracted from the trailer weight and added to the truck's payload. At a minimum, it is always wise to take your loaded truck and trailer to a CAT scale (or similar) and get axle weights for both truck axles and trailer axle as well as the combined vehicle weight to ensure none of its ratings have been exceeded.  If using a weight distribution hitch, the hitch should be set for travel before weighing, as the w.d. hitch will redistribute the axle weights, hopefully and probably favorably.

So not only can the w.d. hitch improve the axle weights of your rig, many hitch brands also offer built in sway control, and a few not only resist sway but are also work to return the trailer to centerline.  Even the lowest priced Eaz-Lift w.d. hitch may be set up by tilting the hitch head and spring bars downward, so it resists the trailer going out of alignment with the tow vehicle and return the vehicle to centerline.

Not all towing requirements are similar.  We are retired and do not use out travel trailers for short weekend trips, but rather for seasonal trips between our AZ and MN homes, sometimes extending these trips to East and West Coasts for touring and visiting friends and relatives.  That exposes us to all kinds of weather and traffic conditions.  Especially dreadful and tiring are crosswinds and "bow waves" as semi's blow past us at 75-85 mph.  The trailer may not go into a sway condition, but it will be pushed out of alignment with the truck which then leverages steering inputs to the front axle.  It is nerve-racking and tiring.  Add another force such as buffeting winds, severely uneven roadway, or sudden steering correction to avoid a a vehicle or object on the roadway, and a dangerous sway condition may be initiated.  

That is why I want the weights properly distributed to the axles, the truck's steering axle firmly on the roadway, and a sway control system that prevents sway from being initiated.  Even though the hitch weight of our T@B 400 may only be 350-400 lbs, the weight in the back of our truck bed will add to the lightening of the steering axle.  The weight distribution hitch is a safety device that can bring the rig back into balance.  A trip to the CAT scale with the empty truck, and another trip with the loaded-for-travel truck/trailer is simple and will ensure corrected axle weights.

Based on experience, we definitely want to use a w.d. hitch with sway control.  The T@b tongue aluminum platform interferes with its installation so I will probably to remove it.

Dutch061

Again, we may be saying the same ting but in different terms.

Payload Capacity as per this site https://www.bing.com/search?q=2021%20Honda%20Ridgeline%20specs&filters=ufn%3a%222021%20Honda%20Ridgeline%20specs%22+aid%3a%22EDD469A07D16F2BD%22 is listed at 1509 to 1583 lbs., the variance of course is dependent on the vehicle options.

This is determined by subtracting the curb weight (nothing other than a full fuel tank) from the GVWR. This site lists the GVWR at 6019 Lbs. and the Max Trailer Weight at 5000 Lbs. (as you noted above). Typical trailer tongue weight is 10% to 15% of the total. So, at 15% you would have 500 lbs. removed from your available payload capacity of 1509 to 1583 lbs. leaving 1009 to 1083 lbs. 

A WDH will not alter these facts, but rather as you noted they will lift the tongue back up and put some of the weight back onto the TV and the axle of the trailer but will not increase payload capacity, GVWR, or Trailer towing capacity.

Brad

kottum

Agree, a weight distribution hitch is not intended to increase any load capacities, but primarily to restore weight removed from the tow vehicle's steering axle when the trailer is let down on the hitch ball.  

If additional weight is loaded into the truck's bed (behind the truck's rear axle), even more weight is removed from the truck's steering axle and the weight distribution hitch can also restore this weight to the truck's steering axle.

So when choosing a weight distribution hitch, the hitch's weight distribution bar capacity must be able to distribute the weight of the trailer tongue, plus the weight loaded into the rear of the truck bed.

The point is, the trailer tongue weight alone is not the only factor determining whether a weight distribution is needed.

Interestingly, a fully loaded truck and trailer with a weight distribution hitch may be more stable than a fully loaded truck by itself.  This is because a fully loaded truck will probably experience some understeer from a lighter steering axle.  That understeer can be corrected on the truck/trailer combo with a weight distribution hitch.

Not to mention the anti-sway systems available with weight distribution hitches which further stabilize the truck/trailer combo.

It will probably be argued that the whole weight distribution idea for a T@b trailer is mute if it is hooked to a 3/4 ton diesel truck.  And that is true because the front axle weight of the large diesel truck is so great the T@b's relatively light tongue weight has no noticeable effect on the steering axle.  But we are talking Honda Ridgeline and similar mid-sized trucks and SUV's here.

Dutch061

LOL, I definitely like the power and MPG of using a 3/4 pounder with a PSD 

Brad

GatorEgg

OP, you need to check in your Hondas owners manual, towing section.  All experts caution against using a weight distribution hitch on a unibody(frameless) vehicle.  They should only be used on vehicles with frames.

Binghi

You need the aluminum platform to create storage space. The Tab has much less of that than the typical Airstream - at least the double axle ones I have towed. The Tab tows straight and steady without a weight distribution or anti-sway hitch. So long as your TV’s hitch weight capacity is adequate you should be fine. Also, as stated above, I don’t think WD hitches are recommended for unibody vehicles.

kottum

The 2021 Honda Ridgeline Owners Manual leaves use of a weight distribution to the discretion of the owner.

From my Owners Manual:

"■ Weight distribution hitches
Your vehicle is designed to tow without the need for a load distributing hitch. If you wish to use one, please consult your trailer maker for proper installation and set-up. Improper set-up could degrade the handling, stability, and braking performance of your vehicle."

Other experts agree that weight distribution hitches work quite well, perhaps even better on unibody vehicles because the structure is strong and rigid.  The is no frame flex as found on many half ton trucks, for example. That frame flex may use up a portion of the weight distribution effort before the weight distribution hitch can press down (restore) weight on the truck's steering axle.

The weakness with any weight distribution hitch is usually found at the connections to the tow vehicle, full-framed or unibody.  If the hitch or its connections are weak, it will simply twist and bend, rather than distribute  needed weight.  Strengthening the connection may be necessary in heavy applications, but is unlikely to apply to the Ridgeline/T@b 400 combination if all weight guidelines are followed.

GatorEgg

Kottum, a good article about WDH specifically Honda vehicles.

https://rvbusiness.com/rv-101-can-a-unibody-vehicle-safely-tow-a-travel-trailer/

kottum

My wife and I have towed Airstream trailers through nearly every state in this country except the northeast, with several different half-ton trucks.  The best was a Ram Ecodiesel for its smooth power train and remarkable economy.  However, they all suffered from stability problems in heavy, gusting sidewinds and the dreadful "bow wave" of passing semi trucks on the interstate.  I contacted perhaps one of the best hitch shops in North America and Airstream dealer in Ontario who had been successful with many towing innovations and towing problems.  His help was invaluable, although often contrary to long-held beliefs about towing; that is, all towing issues are best resolved with a larger, body-on-frame truck.  

But we don't have nor want a larger truck, and especially loathe going to the bank for more money to get one.  We like the truck we have.

We have now down-sized (slightly) to a Honda Ridgeline truck and have ordered a Nucamp 400 BD that in my judgement exceeds the build quality of our Airstreams, significantly.  And at a much lower price.  I believe this is a near ideal combination, based on our own towing experience.  

To address concerns about unibody tow vehicles, here is one of many articles that Canadian Airstream dealer and hitch shop have written about them and larger trucks.

 https://www.rvlifemag.com/built-to-tow-or-marketed-to-tow/