(UPDATED with NuCamp Reply) NuCamp Not Installing 12 Volt TV's in 400

[Deleted User]

I just discovered yesterday that my 2022 400 has an AC powered tv.  This is problematic for watching tv when not on shore power (boondocking).  The AC powered tv requires the inverter to be powered on and that thing seems to draw a lot of amps of power. In addition, an AC "appliance" isn't as efficient as a DC powered appliance when trying to conserve battery power. 

I've sent an email to NuCamp to ask why they made this change. Its likely a supply chain issue, but if it isn't, I would really like to know why.  Perhaps there is a good reason that I would agree with. Otherwise, I'm about to spend another $300 to buy the Jensen 12 volt model and switch it out.  Not a happy camper at the moment, but open to hear their explanation before I buy the 12 volt tv. 

JohnDanielsCPA

You are correct, and this is unacceptable. I bought a “boondock,” which presumes I planned to camp in this “off-grid.”  What makes it worse is, even if I buy a 12 volt television, there wasn’t even a 12 volt outlet, or even an inverter plug installed in that location. It looks like I’ll have to string extension cords from the inverter outlet to the television location, or have to pay some one to install an appropriate outlet.  I am not happy about this.

[Deleted User]

The plug below the tv is powered by the inverter, but having to run that thing is going to eat up extra battery power.  You do not need a 12 volt outlet to install the 12 volt tv.  The install for the 12 volt is quite simple actually (well not as simple as an outlet would have been!) but the tv comes with the red/black wires needed. You will have to crimp ring connectors on the ends though, and then those rings will attach to the "Stinger" distribution box.  You have to remove the passenger side bed board and then remove another small vertical wood panel to access the Stinger Box.  Its not complex to do, but not super easy access. 

[Deleted User]

I'm still trying to research a possible reason for the switch to AC.  Its looks like possibly the 12 volt equivalent might be LCD as opposed to the AC one is LED.  I haven't quite confirmed this yet though. Maybe they determined the AC LED is actually more efficient at battery usage than the 12 volt LCD.  They would have had to factor in the draw of the inverter too, so not sure this is it. I have no expertise in this area at all so this is just a WAG.

JohnDanielsCPA

If the plug below the television is an inverter plug (I can’t confirm, as I just got my new T@B and haven’t had a chance to spend much time in it - it’s in storage at the moment), that would soften the blow, particularly, if the LED is easier on the battery than an LCD.  I have also emailed NuCamp regarding this matter.

[Deleted User]

I have confirmed that in mine (two weeks old) that the plug below the tv is powered by the inverter. That's actually how I discovered the TV wasn't 12 volt because I was on battery power and the tv wouldn't come on.  I have ALOT of confidence in the decisions NuCamp makes about the T@B so even before I came up with the theory that it might be LED versus LCD efficiency, I was fairly confident they would reply with a reason that seemed justified.  This is my third T@B so my confidence is grounded in personal experience. 

Denny16

The new AC powered TV isn’t going to need 1200 watts, so a smaller, more efficient inverter could be installed to power just the TV monitor?

Cheers 

[Deleted User]

Here are the specs for the tv we have in our 2022 400. Model JE2417 ELED TV (Note the "E" in front of the LED. Never seen that before. I see this is the most recent model release from Jensen)   

The Jensen 12 volt 24" tv draws 2.307amps.  If my calculations are right, the 110V AC tv draws .27 amps? Can someone check my math on this.  I based it on 30W divided by 110 Volts equals .27 amps. Is my decimal in the right place!?!  

If my math is correct then this seems to explain the switch to the AC vs DC tv. 

[Deleted User]

Good idea Denny! For sure a small inverter would do the trick. I guess a Pure Sine Wave Inverter would be required for a tv to have a good picture?  It looks like the amp draw for the AC tv is very low...if I did my calculations correct above. 

subkron

@TabbyShack
Kind of hard to compare exactly, you need to compare power.  The DC is 12V @ 2.307Amp = 27.7watts but the AC version is 30watts max. In addition you need to factor the inverter efficient so this max will be a bit higher.

So which one is lower, you can't tell from the numbers.  The AC version says max, it is most likely on average less.  The DC rated current, is that average or max?   

bergger

I would recommend taking a deep breath and just trying it out for a while before you jump into trying to "fix" things.  While I have not really looked into how much power our 12v tv uses I do know that when we use it it is also used with the inverter to power our dvd player.  We also use the inverter to run our drip coffee maker in the mornings.  Watching a movie a night with the dvd player, running the coffee pot in the morning has never taken our batteries even close to being drained to point I had to worry.  And the solar, on a sunny day, has always brought them back up to 100%.  It is possible that the 120v tv will not use too much more power than the 12v.   I know everyone has a different situations when it comes to power consumption and solar based on the weather but I'd just use it for a few trips and see.  Maybe it will be just fine.  If not then maybe try another tv or something else.  

Denny16

If the AC model draws 30 watts max that is around 3-4 amps, so running power draw is going to be around 3 amps +/-.  A 50-100 watt pure sine wave inverter would work.
 Cheers 

[Deleted User]

Great advice to cool my jets and see how it does!  I installed a smart shunt so I guess I can just see exactly what every thing is doing.  I forgot that the inverter is also needed for the DVD player.

To answer question from above, I'm not sure if that was the max or not. It was actually an answer to a customer question on eTrailer. I was never able to find the actual manual/specs for the 12 volt. 

bergger

We have the shunt as well and it is great to see how much appliances draw.  I just wish I could remember what the tv and the little song DVD player pull. I don’t think it’s too much.  I’ll be  the first to admit that I get all worked up as soon as something is not as I expect it to be! I’m getting better in retirement at just rolling with things! 

[Deleted User]

So funny!  I'm glad I'm not the only worry wart!  I go from 0-60mph as soon as I find something off and obsessively try to figure out a solution. This pays off with my job but not in my personal life!   I'm still worked up over the fact that I have to run a lot of wires from the cube to hook up my DVD player to get sound out of the camper speakers!

JohnDanielsCPA

The more I think about this, the less I am concerned.  If the 12v tv was 2.3 amps = 27 watts, a 30 watt tv will only be slightly more at about 2.5 amps.  Of course, you will have the overhead of the inverter, but there really isn’t that much of a difference.  My bigger concern was the lack of an inverter plug near the tv, but that concern seems to have already been addressed by @TabbyShack.  I think I’m going to let this go.

[Deleted User]

Me too, but this whole discussion was very helpful and helped us overcome our initial upset and work it out.  So not only is the forum T@B College, it's also therapy!  I will still come back and post once I hear back from NuCamp on why they made this change. 

Viajero

Before spending any money on TV’s or inverters consider just getting two more 6 volt batteries. Not only is the problem of slightly more tv power consumption solved but your dry camping capability will be considerably improved. And if hitch weight is close to being too much your hitch weight will decrease. . 

We went another route for additional power. We built a DC to DC converter that we plug into the 7 pin trailer plug on the back of the Tesla. It brings the charge voltage to 14.5 volts which is perfect for charging the 2 x 6 volt AGM’s. If the trailers battery’s get low while camping we just put the Tesla in “camp mode” for 6 hours or so and that gets us another day or so of camping. 

Cheers. Hope you get the TV thing sorted out to your liking. Happy camping. 

subfreq111

I wish we had a 120v tv instead of the goofy 12v tv. Just switch the inverter on for the few hours you're watching TV. Can be replaced with any tv off the shelf from walmart or wherever at 1/4 the cost. 120v tv's have you have a million choices smart tv, 4k, wifi, whatever you want. In a 12v, did you want the jensen or the jensen? Inverters don't waste that much energy, especially at the low power a tv uses. My 3000w inverter's fans don't even kick on until I start the A/C up (about 500w) At 30w as stated above, there would be very little loss due to the inverter. 

Dutch061

Easiest conversion from AC to DC when looking at Amperage is to multiply by 10. This doesn't take into consideration the efficiency loss when using an inverter, so .3 Amps at 120 VAC will easily be 3.0 Amps at 12 VDC. Add another 10 to 15% and you will be somewhere between 3.3 and 3.5 Amps.

Brad

subkron

@Dutch061 Not sure what you mean. The TV will always draw the same power, a 30W TV at 120V is still 30W (plus maybe 10% more due to efficiency) at 12V. The conversion multiplier of 10 is the current. For example, 30W @ 120V the current is about 0.25A (30W/120V), for the 12V @ 30W the current is 2.5A (30W/12V).  

Horigan

^ This!

pthomas745

One of the reasons for this sort of change is the big honking batteries we are all buying as fast as we can learn to spell "lithium". 

Dutch061

@subkron

Thank you for catching this. Yes, I am wrong because I moved the decimal place 2 places instead of 1. It would draw 2.5 to 3.0 Amps. I guess the caffeine wasn't working yet...I corrected the verbiage in my original post to reflect this. 

Brad

[Deleted User]

Thanks to everyone still trying to help soothe my concerns.  I feel much better about the AC tv now plus its the very latest model from Jensen so I think its pretty nice.  

@subfreq111 One reason a regular tv isn't a good idea for an RV is the Jensen's are "supposedly" built for the specific conditions of an RV which would be ALOT of jostling around in transit, changing temps and humidity levels etc.  Good to know that inverter likely won't use much power too. I was thinking the fan always was running, etc. 

Thanks to the forum (again) for saving me $300 and a bit of labor!  I will contribute that money toward the $2400 (one time personal property tax) Maryland registration fee I just paid this morning to title the T@B! Ugh.  You gotta pay to play!

[Deleted User]

Hi Robyn,

Thank you for being a part of the nuCamp family.

 

With respect to the tv, our supplier ran into supply chain issues and could no longer provide the former tv we were using in the units. Since we had to make a switch, we decided to go with a 110 volt (standard household) tv offered by the same supplier for the express reason that were available and a didn’t take a step back in the quality of the component. With that, our supplier was able to make a firm commitment to us for future production – something we struggled to obtain elsewhere.

Whenever we are forced to make a switch in components, we weigh all of our options to see what offers the best function, aesthetic, value and supply.  Unfortunately, this means that occasionally we need to pivot in a new direction, so it allows us to continue production. With that said, no decision will ever be made to opt to something vastly inferior or a material misfit, but instead, we pledge to only build units that meet the standards we have set for ourselves.

Regarding the outlet adjacent to the tv, which is located just under the shelf, we wanted to let you know that it is the outlet that runs off the inverter. It makes it accessible to change the tv if necessary.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good option to wire a 12volt tv in that area. We would recommend having this done at a dealership to ensure that everything is connected correctly. 

We certainly apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Denny16

I saw a EU RV maker that is replacing a traditional TV with a large Tablet (think iPad type device), that is connected via WiFi, and uses magnetic mounts in various places in the RV.
 Cheers 

CrabTab

@TabbyShack. I've been keeping up with all of the recent discussions since you received your newest 400. It has been quite educational as you've uncovered the many nuances of the latest build. Thank you.

MuttonChops

TabbyShack said:
Thank you for being a part of the nuCamp family. . .
With respect to the tv, our supplier ran into supply chain issues and could no longer provide the former tv we were using in the units.  . . .

While we all understand the current international supply chain issues that the Covid-19 epidemic has caused . . .

It is disappointing that nüCamp was not pro-activate in notifing buyers, specifically 'build order' customers that a major (IMHO) trailer component change has occurred.
A notification that might have included an option to cancel or request the 12V-tv be delivered at a later date.

nüCamp of today is not the nüCamp of only a few years ago.
Their large production expansion capital requirements must have required venture capitalist [VC]  investment and now nüCamp is being being forced to meet VC growth & revenue demands which always result in justifying a change in pre-VC-investment management choices - - - - i.e. Keep the Investors not the customers first.
I experienced the VC effect many times during my professional career, seen first hand how the VC effect poisons first marketing and then engineering management . . . always at the cost of the end customer

[Deleted User]

I agree I should have been informed especially since I kept asking my dealer if there were any substitutions along the way.  At one point NuCamp asked my dealer if I would switch to red or white trim because they were running out of black trim. That was a hard no for me, but that prompted me to send an email to dealer asking about other substitutions but it's clear he wasn't informed either. He said he had not been told of any substititions. Oh well, so far this seems like the only thing, and I would rather have this TV than no TV at all or a delay in receiving it. 

Ok so with TV on, inverter on, and a small Sony DVD player playing a DVD, I was using 3.71 amps. This would also include any phantom draws. No lights or anything else on.

bergger

I do think you should have been informed of the tv change.  However I do not know if NuCamp advertised their tv as being a 12v in the past?  I know I looked into it when ordering our 2021 and was pleased to know it was a 12v, but not sure it really matters much after this thread.  So if it is not advertised it is something they probably do not worry about notifying dealers or customers of the change.  However I am not saying that is ok.  But after your last tests TabbyShack I'd say your ok with the factory set up.  Keep testing it over a camping season and if for some reason you think you can save battery by switching things out go ahead and do so.  But I think if it gets to the point you think you need more power switching out the tv or adding another inverter is probably not the solution.  More battery power is.  

Good point on the capital investment with NuCamp.  I wonder if that is the case and has had an additional impact on things as well??  Shipping out trailers with changed components or without components at all, ie screen doors and widow shades.