Solar panel not working?

ColoradoJon

Denny16 said:

Jon, what fridge did you use for the cabin tests?  We use a fridge thermometer in our TaB400 2-way fridge.  I have run the fridge for three nights and the better part of 4-days, in 80F weather, and the fridge stayed cold, amp draw was similar to my tests above, the battery went down 40/50 amps over night and recharged back up in partially cloudy conditions by mid day off the solar system, whilst the fridge continued to run.  The fridge was full of food, and temp. was maintained at 38-40F.  This was a real boondock camping experience.  We had ice cubes in the freezer tray, that stayed frozen.

I have read several complaints, that the two-way fridge couldn’t keep up with hot weather, which is also contrary to my experience.  On our last trip several weeks ago, we had outside temps in the 90s two days with temps 101-103 range.  The TaB was on shore power, CoolCat running set to 75F, with trailer temps in the 75-80F range.  The fridge kept its temp at 37-40F, again, fridge was full of food.  

Everything stayed cold.  For beer or beverages, I use my cooler with ice — keeps beverages very cold!

Cheers 

When running the AC/Swamp cooler, you are keeping your cabin temps low.  Can't really do that while boondocking, though

I tested many, many refrigerators - from full size 110V appliances to supposedly 'super efficient' 12V green models made in Germany (these suck, by the way).  I did not test this exact one and based on your testing it sounds super efficient.  I'll have to take a look at this one to replace the ridiculous 3-way in my 320.  I ended up going with a full size, 110V fridge for my off grid cabin.

On topic - the OP claims that the solar is not keeping up, but according to the screen shots the solar is working just fine.  It's generating the 12 plus amps that it should in full sunlight.

According to the OP when turning the fridge off, the batteries stay charged.  Fridge running - batteries depleted.

Now this doesn't mean that the fridge is the culprit, but it could be a large part of it.  I'm sure the OP is not running any type of AC so the cabin temps are probably on the high side.  It is possible that the batteries are not holding a charge or not charging completely (need replaced), or the solar panel is not optimally located and only getting sun for a small portion of the day.

I don't have any other information to base any meaningful diagnosis off of, other than the fact that the batteries stay charged when the fridge is turned off.

Denny16

I agree Jon, the OP didn’t provide enough useable info to figure out the issue.
Glad you go your cabin fridge sorted.  Yes the Norcold 2-way and the newer Isotherm Elegance 65 nüCamp is currently using are small, 2-CuFt two-way fridges that are very efficient running on 12VDC, due to their Danfoss compressor.
 Cheers 

Ghannan

90 degrees, fridge draws 4 or 5 amps while compressor rims, compressor runs about 20 minutes per hour for roughly 1.5 amp hours per hour.  So, for 12 hours, uses about 20 amp hours.  A sunny day will recharge to 100% charge by noon or 1 pm

aphillips

We also have a 2022 400 BD and are having issues with our solar panel for the first time. We are out on a 2 week trip, luckily with shore power most of the time, and our panels are not generating any power even in full sun. Any suggestions on what could be happening? They have always worked in the past, so it isn't backward wiring.

elbolillo

@aphillips Since you are connected to shore power it appears your batteries are fully charged. Your solar charger state says Float, so no charge is needed from it.

aphillips

Thanks @elbolillo! We had been boondocking and I completely forgot we were on shore power. We are still relatively new to all of this and are trying to climb the battery learning curve. We bought a shunt and plan to install it soon so we have better information.

I do have another question about the control panel in the trailer. Our battery was full when we disconnected from shore power this morning. When I turned the battery on and looked at the indicator light in the trailer, it only showed one red light (low). The Victron app said it is full. Any idea why the trailer monitor shows that? 

kevmon

I think people use the fridge differently. If I was constantly opening to grab a new cold beverage every hour on warm days, I would expect a lot of power usage. Like others, I tend to use a cooler for things I use more frequently and try to keep fridge closed most of the time. I have the smaller cruise 65 and I had not issues keeping it running for extended days (12 days in Glacier NP with clouds, rain, minimal daily sun and using 105 watt roof solar + 100 watt portable occasionally with a 200 ah lithium). Having said that, I left with 70% battery remaining, so maybe that can mean Solar didn’t keep up. With sun I can easily keep up with fridge, lights, pump, etc. 

pthomas745

@aphillips Tell us what battery you have.  A voltmeter (Victron, multimeter, the KIB monitor in the trailer) cannot display a proper voltage readout on a lead acid battery if the battery is being charged, or being discharged. 

In your picture if the Victron status on your battery from a couple of days ago, the "Battery Voltage" is showing 13.62, which is very close to the "charging voltage" for a lead acid battery.  It is not the "actual" battery voltage, just the charge going in. (This is a "false capacity" reading").

When you unplugged from shore power, a fully charged battery should read 12.6V.  But: if you used the KIB monitor in the trailer to take this readout, the battery was "being discharged."  Even with nothing on inside the trailer, there are still "parasitic drains" from various devices in the trailer that are still pulling power from the battery.  These "drains" will make a voltage display drop to a lower level than the actual battery voltage.  If the fridge was running when you hit the KIB monitor, that is one reason for the reading to be "low".  Did you happen to take a look at your Victron when you tried the KIB?  The Victron would have displayed a voltage...but it would still be "lower than actual", another "false" reading.

The only way to get a fairly accurate readout from a volt meter of any sort of a lead acid battery: battery switch off, and no power coming in.  This is known as a "rested" battery reading.  Just unplug from shore power, turn off the battery switch, turn off the solar.  (There is a Victron app setting on the "battery setting" page that turns the "Charger Off").  Wait a few minutes and use that voltage readout for a better idea of your battery status.

If: you have lithium batteries in the trailer, the KIB monitor is completely wrong, since it is based on measuring a lead acid battery. 

One of the really smart owners here once said: "The only thing the KIB monitor can show you is the lights in the KIB monitor are working".

So: try your Victron app with the trailer unplugged and the battery switch off.  Look at the voltage you get from a "rested" battery.  The chart below is a "lead acid" rested battery state of charge chart.

A "shunt" eliminates guesswork like this, since it simply counts amps in and out.

aphillips

Thank you so much @pthomas745. We do have the factory installed lead acid batteries and this is exactly what I needed. I remember reading about the importance of using the rested battery state to really know what is going on, but I forgot about it and didn't see that detail when wading through earlier posts this morning. 

aphillips

@pthomas745 We continue to need your (or anyone else's!) help. We are on day 10 of a two week trip. We have had shore power all nights other than two - July 2 and last night. After a 7 hour drive yesterday (which I assume kept the batteries mostly charged), we arrived at our boon docking site and disconnected from our TV. We left for several hours and when we came back to the camper, the lights seemed dim. The only thing that had been on while were were gone was the 2 way refrigerator and whatever normal parasitic drains there are. We went to bed anyway and woke up to the low battery alarm at 11:30PM. The overhead fan had stopped as did the refrigerator. The lights wouldn't turn on. After stressing about it for a while, we turned off the battery completely and decided to figure it out in the morning. 

Thanks to incoming storm Beryl and our inability to sleep, we hooked up at 4:45AM and tried to move away from the storm. Of course, all of the power started working again when hooked up to our TV. We are now taking a break and trying to figure out what happened. Here are some screen shots of our app, which do not make sense because there is no battery current showing right now even though we have the fridge, fan, and sink lights on. The history also shows no current even though we already boon docked one other night on this trip. I have confirmed that the breaker has not been tripped. Any suggestions on what to do next? Thanks! 

pthomas745

This is where the "rested" battery measurements are so important.  The only way to tell if a battery is charged, adn is actually holding that charge, is with no power coming into the battery.  This might take a while to determine, but it will check the actual battery.

It appears here there is no solar going into the battery at all, and there has been no activity on it for several days. The places to look here would be the fuses for the solar: there is a fuse at the solar controller, and a fuse coming in from the solar panel wiring at the controller. 

It may be necessary to completely "reset" the controller and have it "restart".  A controller needs to be connected to the battery first, and then connected to the solar panels.  We may have to do some looking around to find the controller, so "maybe" pulling that fuse in from the solar panel will do this trick for you, if not, there are other ways to do this.

Do you know where your controller is?

aphillips

@pthomas745 Yes. It was on the driver's side behind the drawer below the big wardrobe. This is the picture I just took. 

pthomas745

This is the spot where multimeters are mentioned: the Victron is all fun and games until suddenly they decide to freak out.  We all love the Victrons, but they are hardly user friendly devices. 

On the Victron display, we "seem" to see a full battery...but obviously, something isn't right.  The battery seems to be falling behind, and the lack of any "current" being used is another clue.  If you had a multimeter, we could check the status of the battery at the battery distribution block.

It "seems" the Victron has lost connection with the battery.  There are fuses for the cables from the controller to the battery, and it may have failed.  That fuse on the bottom of the controller may have failed.  (Hard to see).  What makes this even more confusing is: the Victron draws power from the solar panel, also. So, what you are seeing on the App is not correct  at all. (Maybe). 

So: get into the battery area, and find the various fuses near the battery disconnect switch and check all of them. (I will look for better photos). 

Marceline

aphillips said:

@pthomas745 Yes. It was on the driver's side behind the drawer below the big wardrobe. This is the picture I just took. 

That doesn't look correct to me. There should be a pos/neg connected to the panel (PV), a pos/neg connected to the battery (BATT), and nothing connected to LOAD. 

I would cut all power and fix the wiring.

Here's a link to the manual for the solar controller: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual_SmartSolar_MPPT_75-10_up_to_100-20/29694-MPPT_solar_charger_manual-pdf-en.pdf

elbolillo

aphillips said:

@pthomas745 Yes. It was on the driver's side behind the drawer below the big wardrobe. This is the picture I just took. 

Try to get a shot straight on so that we can see where the wires are connected. As commented, something seems amiss with the wiring.

elbolillo

Marceline said:

aphillips said:

@pthomas745 Yes. It was on the driver's side behind the drawer below the big wardrobe. This is the picture I just took. 

That doesn't look correct to me. There should be a pos/neg connected to the panel (PV), a pos/neg connected to the battery (BATT), and nothing connected to LOAD. 

I would cut all power and fix the wiring.

Here's a link to the manual for the solar controller: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual_SmartSolar_MPPT_75-10_up_to_100-20/29694-MPPT_solar_charger_manual-pdf-en.pdf

I may just appear to be wired wrong due to the angle of this shot. The red and white coming from the battery appear to be fine. Then the red and white coming from the solar panel has the red wire spliced with a green wire, which has the fuse on it. I think the angle makes it look like something is attached to the loads, but I doubt it.

Marceline

elbolillo said:

Marceline said:

aphillips said:

@pthomas745 Yes. It was on the driver's side behind the drawer below the big wardrobe. This is the picture I just took. 

That doesn't look correct to me. There should be a pos/neg connected to the panel (PV), a pos/neg connected to the battery (BATT), and nothing connected to LOAD. 

I would cut all power and fix the wiring.

Here's a link to the manual for the solar controller: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual_SmartSolar_MPPT_75-10_up_to_100-20/29694-MPPT_solar_charger_manual-pdf-en.pdf

I may just appear to be wired wrong due to the angle of this shot. The red and white coming from the battery appear to be fine. Then the red and white coming from the solar panel has the red wire spliced with a green wire, which has the fuse on it. I think the angle makes it look like something is attached to the loads, but I doubt it.

Maybe, but I'm pretty sure that we've heard of at least one or two other cases in which the solar controller was mis-wired. But as you said, it would be better to get a straight-on photo. 

aphillips

Thanks everyone! We are on the road again, so I'll take another photo later. But we have not rewired this and previously went on a 5 day boon docking trip just fine. The solar has worked just fine in the past. 

Marceline

aphillips said:

Thanks everyone! We are on the road again, so I'll take another photo later. But we have not rewired this and previously went on a 5 day boon docking trip just fine. The solar has worked just fine in the past. 

Is there any chance that in your previous 5-day boondocking trip you were just running off the batteries the entire time and the solar wasn't actually sending anything to the batteries? Did the Victron show that panels were sending power to the batteries? If you have a propane fridge I think that it's conceivable that you could get 5 days out of the T@B 400 battery bank.

aphillips

I have seen solar going to the batteries on the Victron app before. And we have the 2-way fridge that does not run on propane. 

Just realized we are at a Harvest Host site tonight that is 1 hour away from Pleasant Valley Teardrop! Might call them first thing in the morning and possibly take it in. 

aphillips

Luckily it was just a fuse! NuCamp also upgraded the 40amp breaker to a 50amp at no charge. Thanks to everyone who gave us advice on what to consider. 

PS - If you ever have a chance to tour the factory, it is worth your time! 

Marceline

aphillips said:

Luckily it was just a fuse! NuCamp also upgraded the 40amp breaker to a 50amp at no charge. Thanks to everyone who gave us advice on what to consider. 

PS - If you ever have a chance to tour the factory, it is worth your time! 

Glad to hear you got it sorted out. 

pthomas745

@aphillips, which fuse did it turn out to be?  At the battery connection? The solar controller? Fuse in from the solar panel to the controller?

aphillips

pthomas745 said:

@aphillips, which fuse did it turn out to be?  At the battery connection? The solar controller? Fuse in from the solar panel to the controller?

It was the 30amp fuse that connects to the solar panel wires (near the circuit breaker in the battery disconnect area). 

pthomas745

It honestly bewilders me the Victron will continue to send out inaccurate data even though a fuse has blown, etc.