2006 T@B Floor Repair in 2022 or New Chassis

hotcoldsummer

I recently inherited a 2006 Dutchman T@B with the ALKO chassis and discovered it was leaking from the clamshell hinge area and there's spots of significant water-damage from under the kitchen to about 3/4 of the way to the axle.  There's one spot under the passenger side bench storage area where the chassis bolt is clearly rusted and there's a distinct rise in the floor where the T@B sits on the frame.

I spent a couple hours researching on this and other forums and facebook groups and reached out to NuCamp about floor replacement options only to learn they aren't selling floors anymore and no longer seem to have any interest in working on the Dutchmans. 

Has anyone done a floor replacement without a factory floor?  I've seen several accounts of people having the body detach from the chassis on the highway. It would be a challenge to build something light enough but with sufficient structural integrity for the unibody-like design.

The ALKO chassis is so hard to get parts for, I'm honestly wondering if it would make more sense to just have a good fabricator build a new chassis the camper body could be moved to so it could be re-built with a much higher GVWR.  The ALKO's axle has some rust on the torsion arms, anyway and it's impossible to get a new axle in the the US. Even the brakes and bearings are hard to find.  It probably wouldn't cost more than the $5000 NuCamp was reportedly charging for the new floor and it could give the camper another 10+ years of use.

Denny16

To properly repair this DM TaB, you are going to need to take the body off the frame.
  To do this, you need to strip out the TaB’s interior built in furniture, bunks, galley, etc.
   Next you need to unbolt and unscrew the fasteners holding the body to the frame.  There are going to be rusty fasteners that will be difficult to remove.
   Then you need to Jack up he body off the frame.  Now you can get down to designing and building a new frame to take a Dexter axle being used on current TaBs.  

You may want to start with a rough frame design based on current TaB frame and cost out what it is going to cost to build a new frame, include foam for insulation and marine quality plywood for the floor, a gallon or two of West System epoxy (or something similar) to seal the plywood edges and glue any joints together.  Then see if the cost is going to be what you are willing to pay. 

 

Additionally, you need to ask yourself if this is a project you want and can take on.  There is a previous discussion here from someone that did this a few years back.
 Cheers 

Mickerly

It's like restoring an old car. You can try to go all original, but parts are hard to find. Maybe you'll update the parts you can't see. Then wouldn't it be nice to have some of those things the newer trailers have, the Alde for example. As soon are you leave original for custom, you open Pandora's door. Then you really need to ask if there is a better starting point than the model you have to get to the custom you are dreaming about.

Those projects are great when you have an emotional attachment to the vehicle you are restoring. When you finish, the end product is always rewarding. Just like a modified car, you will have considerably more money into it than it will be worth. But, the monetary value isn't the point of the project. It's the project itself.

hotcoldsummer

Mickerly said:

It's like restoring an old car. You can try to go all original, but parts are hard to find. Maybe you'll update the parts you can't see. Then wouldn't it be nice to have some of those things the newer trailers have, the Alde for example. As soon are you leave original for custom, you open Pandora's door. Then you really need to ask if there is a better starting point than the model you have to get to the custom you are dreaming about.

Those projects are great when you have an emotional attachment to the vehicle you are restoring. When you finish, the end product is always rewarding. Just like a modified car, you will have considerably more money into it than it will be worth. But, the monetary value isn't the point of the project. It's the project itself.

That's probably good advice.  My thinking is because I didn't pay any money for it, if I could spend an amount far less than the cost of a newer model and be safe for long-distance travel, it would be worth it but your right about the pandora's box of risk. 

With the extent of the damage, its probably still ok, at least for shorter distances.  If it fails, I'll be back where I started.

Mouseketab

My plan for my 2007 T@B CS is to go to a fairly local RV restoration place (have found 3 places within 100 miles that I will interview), and have them do a frame up restoration. I am going to have them order a frame, axle, brake system, wheel wells, grey and fresh water tanks, front platform, and front box from nuCamp, then have them fabricate a floor with beefier internal frame, marine plywood, sealed to the max, then put my body on top of the new frame and floor, fixing what needs to be fixed (new CoolCat while it's apart). I'll get wheels and tires locally to match the new frame. I might even have a new headliner put in. (Get rid of the fuzzy carpet). I too missed the window to get a floor blank from nuCamp, but it is what it is. Fortunately, I don't have a hatch issue. Solved that really early in the ownership. I actually expect to spend almost as much on the restoration as a new T@B, but it will be restored to EXACTLY what I want.

Denny16

The question is, will a 2006/2007 DM TaB body fit on a new TaB320 frame?
Will nüCamp sell you a 320 frame and axle?  Are the wheels and axle located on the same place on the frame?  More info is going to be needed.  When I upgraded my TaB axle to a Boondock axle, Dexter axle and wheels cost around $900 from nüCamp.
 Cheers 

hotcoldsummer

I hadn't thought of a new T@B frame but the logic behind fabricating a frame is it could support the floor across its width and length, instead of just where the narrow frame makes contact. By distributing the load across the floor, the compromised integrity of the original floor wouldn't be an issue.

I live in South Louisiana where there's a ton of skilled welders and fabricators all over.

Something sort of like this

hotcoldsummer

Mouseketab said:

My plan for my 2007 T@B CS is to go to a fairly local RV restoration place (have found 3 places within 100 miles that I will interview), and have them do a frame up restoration. I am going to have them order a frame, axle, brake system, wheel wells, grey and fresh water tanks, front platform, and front box from nuCamp, then have them fabricate a floor with beefier internal frame, marine plywood, sealed to the max, then put my body on top of the new frame and floor, fixing what needs to be fixed (new CoolCat while it's apart). I'll get wheels and tires locally to match the new frame. I might even have a new headliner put in. (Get rid of the fuzzy carpet). I too missed the window to get a floor blank from nuCamp, but it is what it is. Fortunately, I don't have a hatch issue. Solved that really early in the ownership. I actually expect to spend almost as much on the restoration as a new T@B, but it will be restored to EXACTLY what I want.

That's quite an ambitious rebuild.  May I ask why your taking this approach over buying new?  My only real motivation is to get a solid clamshell camper for a pretty low price as it seems the design and build of the newer models is better in many ways.

Mouseketab

Denny16 said:

The question is, will a 2006/2007 DM TaB body fit on a new TaB320 frame?
Will nüCamp sell you a 320 frame and axle?  Are the wheels and axle located on the same place on the frame?  More info is going to be needed.  When I upgraded my TaB axle to a Boondock axle, Dexter axle and wheels cost around $900 from nüCamp.
 Cheers 

I have spoken to at least one person that had their Dutchmen floor rebuilt by nuCamp, and nuCamp offered to put a new frame underneath it for about $2K more at the time. (the person declined) I'm guessing nuCamp has a 320CS frame and a 320S frame with the axle in appropriate locations. Since the floor will be built custom over the frame, there should be no issue placing it on the frame to match the body. Since I haven't even really started the process, options, info, will be researched, and the best solutions used. If nuCamp won't sell and ship the frame/axle, I'll go with having the local place build a frame, floor, water tanks, and get an appropriate axle. Then I'll have Seabiscuit in TN build me a custom platform and custom front box.

hotcoldsummer

Mouseketab said:

Denny16 said:

The question is, will a 2006/2007 DM TaB body fit on a new TaB320 frame?
Will nüCamp sell you a 320 frame and axle?  Are the wheels and axle located on the same place on the frame?  More info is going to be needed.  When I upgraded my TaB axle to a Boondock axle, Dexter axle and wheels cost around $900 from nüCamp.
 Cheers 

I have spoken to at least one person that had their Dutchmen floor rebuilt by nuCamp, and nuCamp offered to put a new frame underneath it for about $2K more at the time. (the person declined) I'm guessing nuCamp has a 320CS frame and a 320S frame with the axle in appropriate locations. Since the floor will be built custom over the frame, there should be no issue placing it on the frame to match the body. Since I haven't even really started the process, options, info, will be researched, and the best solutions used. If nuCamp won't sell and ship the frame/axle, I'll go with having the local place build a frame, floor, water tanks, and get an appropriate axle.

Nucamp is like 1000 miles away from me so I don't see going that route if I still have to fabricate a custom structural floor to complete the project.  The original floor is welded aluminum with 1/8" ply and foam.

Mouseketab

hotcoldsummer said:

I hadn't thought of a new T@B frame but the logic behind fabricating a frame is it could support the floor across its width and length, instead of just where the narrow frame makes contact. By distributing the load across the floor, the compromised integrity of the original floor wouldn't be an issue.

I live in South Louisiana where there's a ton of skilled welders and fabricators all over.

Something sort of like this

That does look great!, but as you know the wheels are up into the body of the T@B, so being totally over the wheels won't be possible.

Mouseketab

hotcoldsummer said:

Mouseketab said:

My plan for my 2007 T@B CS is to go to a fairly local RV restoration place (have found 3 places within 100 miles that I will interview), and have them do a frame up restoration. I am going to have them order a frame, axle, brake system, wheel wells, grey and fresh water tanks, front platform, and front box from nuCamp, then have them fabricate a floor with beefier internal frame, marine plywood, sealed to the max, then put my body on top of the new frame and floor, fixing what needs to be fixed (new CoolCat while it's apart). I'll get wheels and tires locally to match the new frame. I might even have a new headliner put in. (Get rid of the fuzzy carpet). I too missed the window to get a floor blank from nuCamp, but it is what it is. Fortunately, I don't have a hatch issue. Solved that really early in the ownership. I actually expect to spend almost as much on the restoration as a new T@B, but it will be restored to EXACTLY what I want.

That's quite an ambitious rebuild.  May I ask why your taking this approach over buying new?  My only real motivation is to get a solid clamshell camper for a pretty low price as it seems the design and build of the newer models is better in many ways.

Honestly, I don't want a bath, I don't want an Alde, I don't want an outside shower, I don't want an Air8 Air Conditioner. I also have an emotional connection with the camper as I bought it new back in 2007. My 2007 CS really suits my needs, it just needs a new floor and I want the higher Gross weight of the new frame, and no longer want to fight to find parts for the Al-Ko frame.  I also want the front diamond plate bin and platform, which is not possible on the Al-Ko frame on a clamshell.

hotcoldsummer

Denny16 said:

To properly repair this DM TaB, you are going to need to take the body off the frame.
  To do this, you need to strip out the TaB’s interior built in furniture, bunks, galley, etc.
   Next you need to unbolt and unscrew the fasteners holding the body to the frame.  There are going to be rusty fasteners that will be difficult to remove.
   Then you need to Jack up he body off the frame.  Now you can get down to designing and building a new frame to take a Dexter axle being used on current TaBs.  

You may want to start with a rough frame design based on current TaB frame and cost out what it is going to cost to build a new frame, include foam for insulation and marine quality plywood for the floor, a gallon or two of West System epoxy (or something similar) to seal the plywood edges and glue any joints together.  Then see if the cost is going to be what you are willing to pay. 

 

Additionally, you need to ask yourself if this is a project you want and can take on.  There is a previous discussion here from someone that did this a few years back.
 Cheers 

Yes, a lot of work but I think I could manage it if it wasn't too expensive to make it worth it.  I'm also thinking I might be able to get away without a total floor replacement if I built a chassis that supports the camper in a different way than the original.  I would still probably have to gut it to deal with any rot and move it to the new chassis.

I'm guessing you're talking about this thread where he fabricated a new aluminum frame and built a replacement floor. For me, this is too much work if I'm putting it back on a chassis with a limited lifespan.  I think I saw another thread where someone cheaply rebuilt the floor out of thicker plywood but I wouldn't want to do anything that would add weight.

hotcoldsummer

Mouseketab said:

hotcoldsummer said:

I hadn't thought of a new T@B frame but the logic behind fabricating a frame is it could support the floor across its width and length, instead of just where the narrow frame makes contact. By distributing the load across the floor, the compromised integrity of the original floor wouldn't be an issue.

I live in South Louisiana where there's a ton of skilled welders and fabricators all over.

Something sort of like this

That does look great!, but as you know the wheels are up into the body of the T@B, so being totally over the wheels won't be possible.

In theory, if I'm replacing the frame I could build it however but yes, I'd probably have the axle sit closer to the frame to utilize the original wheel wells.

And I totally get it on sentimental value.  I too love the simple design but I thought there was a simple model that was made more recently that still had a clamshell, no wet bath, etc.  No?

Mouseketab

hotcoldsummer said:

Mouseketab said:

hotcoldsummer said:

I hadn't thought of a new T@B frame but the logic behind fabricating a frame is it could support the floor across its width and length, instead of just where the narrow frame makes contact. By distributing the load across the floor, the compromised integrity of the original floor wouldn't be an issue.

I live in South Louisiana where there's a ton of skilled welders and fabricators all over.

Something sort of like this

That does look great!, but as you know the wheels are up into the body of the T@B, so being totally over the wheels won't be possible.

In theory, if I'm replacing the frame I could build it however but yes, I'd probably have the axle sit closer to the frame to utilize the original wheel wells.

And I totally get it on sentimental value.  I too love the simple design but I thought there was a simple model that was made more recently that still had a clamshell, no wet bath, etc.  No?

Nope, not the T@Bs. All have wetbaths since Nov 2019. They DID make a simpler T@G (the small teardrop) for a short time.

brorob

@hotcoldsummer Are you still working on this project?  It's been a while since I visited this forum but I just ran across this post.

hotcoldsummer

brorob said:

@hotcoldsummer Are you still working on this project?  It's been a while since I visited this forum but I just ran across this post.

Project was successfully completed! I've held off on making a complete post until I had some time to make sure the rebuild hadn't created any problems but so far so good.

Sharon_is_SAM

Wow @hotcoldsummer!  Very impressive project.  How long did it take?

gulfarea

hotcoldsummer My hat is off to you, great work! At least you know exactly that the work was done correct! Art

hotcoldsummer

Sharon_is_SAM said:

Wow @hotcoldsummer!  Very impressive project.  How long did it take?

I did it over a 6 week period but not working constantly.  It was definitely a good chunk of hours, though. 

Geo

@hotcoldsummer,  VERY nice job . . .   You went even further than I did in '16 with my floor rebuild.

You are now a master T@B rebuilder.

Mickerly

Very nice. You made it definitely yours, yet kept the T@B flavor as well.

What's next?   ; )

hotcoldsummer

Thanks! I did make a few customizations.  Need to get good photos of all the details.

GregChris

While at Huntington Beach in March, a couple pulled in with a vintage Tab. I could be miss remembering, but I think they said it was 2004. It was made by Thor at the time and they had it imported from Europe. They said pretty much everything inside had replaced over the years, but original frame and body. Very interesting, and looked remarkably like the new 1's.

hotcoldsummer

GregChris said:

While at Huntington Beach in March, a couple pulled in with a vintage Tab. I could be miss remembering, but I think they said it was 2004. It was made by Thor at the time and they had it imported from Europe. They said pretty much everything inside had replaced over the years, but original frame and body. Very interesting, and looked remarkably like the new 1's.

Wow! Mine is actually a 2008 and was made by Dutchman in the US but built on the Euro Alko chassis. I have a set of early drawings ('06 maybe?), which may have been the first USA model.  I'm not crazy about all the stuff they crammed in the new ones but they've definitely beefed up the frame and chassis--weight is almost double.

GregChris

Yea, I remember them telling me the new 1's were way to heavy. I said"you're kidding 1950lbs? I guess their's is around 1200? No shower, no air. Sounds like a big Tag.

hotcoldsummer

GregChris said:

Yea, I remember them telling me the new 1's were way to heavy. I said"you're kidding 1950lbs? I guess their's is around 1200? No shower, no air. Sounds like a big Tag.

Wow, mine wouldn't hit 1200lbs even if you pulled the AC, fridge, batteries, water tank and spare tire. 

brorob

@hotcoldsummer Visiting this site for the first time in a while again.

Wow, nice job with the rebuild!  Looks like you have a floor that will last a lot longer than the original construction.  Any idea how much weight this added?  I'd just give one word of warning that it's easy to reach the gross weight of the AL-KO axle.  Did you replicate the front and rear profile boards?  This was one of the hardest parts of the project for me, probably spent a few hours at the table saw wirking on these.

Good to see all the pictures and great job you did on this!

hotcoldsummer

brorob said:

@hotcoldsummer Visiting this site for the first time in a while again.

Wow, nice job with the rebuild!  Looks like you have a floor that will last a lot longer than the original construction.  Any idea how much weight this added?  I'd just give one word of warning that it's easy to reach the gross weight of the AL-KO axle.  Did you replicate the front and rear profile boards?  This was one of the hardest parts of the project for me, probably spent a few hours at the table saw wirking on these.

Good to see all the pictures and great job you did on this!

Thanks!

Yes, I gave very close consideration to the weight--definitely the big limiting factor on design and materials.  Going with a more substantial steel frame, I added around 60lbs, and more still going to two larger FLA golf cart batteries in series.  I can still carry basic cargo (clothes, food, kitchen stuff, etc.) but carry the spare tire and propane tank in my truck now.  I also redesigned the plumbing so the water tank can be placed outside and fed into the city water hookup to get some cabinet space back after converting to the Dometic slide out fridge. I have a cat scale on my way out of town so always weigh up after loading.

I figure I still have the option to go to lithium batteries if I want to get most of the weight back.  Comparable amp hours would cut around 90lbs, even doubling the amp hours would still cut 60lbs with battle borns.

I also looked at swapping the axle with a Dexter but decided not to open that particular can of worms.

And yes, I milled the profile pieces myself as well as the entire back wall piece between the back of the frame and bottom of the clamshell.  Getting it to fit perfectly was a challenge but I think I got pretty close.