First time winterizing, one concern

Jay_and_Kat

So yesterday we winterized.  Followed the manual recommendation, hooked up our compressor to the fill port on the Nautilus and set it to ~25psi (manual says 30psi, I'm paranoid) but this is where I'm hoping we didn't screw up.

I had the Nautilus handles set to "winterize" because I didn't have the guide in front of me (strike 1,) I never set the handles to the 45 degree position to blow out the plumbing of the Nautilus (strike 2.)  I'm hoping we don't have a strike 3.

We did flush out the lines on compressed air until we were getting air, including the outside shower / faucet.  I actually ran the air for a couple minutes with the low-point drains open.  Once we finished the air-out, we sucked in most of a gallon of RV anti-freeze (the pink stuff,) running the faucets and toilet until we had pink coming out, at which point we shut it all down.

We're good, right?  We're not going to find our plumbing system broken come the spring, right?  OK, yes, I'm nervous, it's our first camper and I'd really hate to have to re-plumb the blasted thing in the spring (we already HAD plumbing problems, warranty work though, thankfully)

dragonsdofly

@Jay_and_Kat just a note, hope you also flushed the toilet until you had the pink stuff flowing too. Also keep a couple of cups of the rv antifreeze in the bowl. If necessary pour it into the bowl. This helps to keep the gasket at the bottom of the bowl from drying out.

Although we have a 320 S, our advice is from lessons learned the hard way.

Good luck.

Jay_and_Kat

@dragonsdofly we did run the toilet until it was pink so there's some in the bowl, but I'm going to take your advice and go out and pour some straight into the bowl, give it a bit more of a "layer" on the flapper.

XenanMe

Did you drain the water from the Alde tank?  You mentioned the low point drains which is great but I am hoping you remembered to lift the yellow Alde valve and empty water from the tank.  If you did, then I think you are good.  If not, you definitely want to complete that step.

Jay_and_Kat

@XenanMe, the user manual for our year (2022) does mention a yellow handle, but in the context of the low point drains.  I'm presuming you're talking about a valve that might be tucked under the bed?

dsfdogs

@Jay_and_Kat yes, there are two yellow pressure relief valves under the bed near the Alde. One is for the flow tank, the other for the hot water tank in the Alde. Flip both up and you'll hear the water draining.

Jay_and_Kat

@dsfdogs out of paranoia, would opening that yellow drain handle potentially drain the hot system (similar to opening the low point drain?)  Needless to say, I really don't want to re-winterize the system if I can help it...

pthomas745

If your Nautilus was set to "bypass" the hot water tank, there shouldn't be anything in there, anyway.  If this concerns you in any way, get an assistant to watch the drain while you open and shut the Yellow Flapper Valve for a second or so.  Nothing should come out.

Even so: the general disapproval for having "antifreeze in the Alde tank" has to do with whether or not you are going to use the camper for heat while the system is winterized.  It has to do with the "boiling point of the antifreeze".  Anyway, this has been a rabbit hole for Tab owners since the first Alde was installed, so you are not alone!

Have a thread about it, which is pretty informative.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14336/unapproved-winterizing-the-alde-3020-in-a-2021-tab-320s

Jay_and_Kat

So when I went out to the camper, I looked at the plumbing system and didn't see a yellow valve that looked like it would go to the outside.  I saw two yellow valves that looked like they'd shut off water to the cold side of the Alde and on the hot side, but nothing that looked like it would lead to a drain...

Time to browse the linked thread, too, as I'm contemplating a winter camping trip...

pthomas745

In the Alde compartment of your 400, there are yellow valves for the Alde hot water tank, and for the Alde flow.  They are "flapper" valves.  When they are closed, they are horizontal.  When "up", they are open and will drain the Alde tanks.  The main yellow valve is also the plumbing safety valve.  When you don't use a water pressure regulator, it will pop open and begin draining water to prevent strain to the water system.  If you look under the trailer, there will be two drain spouts close together on the driver's side.  Those are the places to look for water or antifreeze to come from.

dsfdogs

@Jay_and_Kat if you've never lifted those yellow levers, then you probably still have water in the alde hot water tank and the flow tank. As @pthomas745 said, if your Nautilus levers were in winterize mode, then you shouldn't have pink antifreeze in the Alde.

Denny16

The drain line on the yellow safet valves is under the valve, going through the floor, so from the top, you do not see the drain line.  Lifting the valve handle may drain a bit more water from the two hot water tanks.  The low point drains will get  about 90% of the water out.  Any small amounts of remaining water is not enough to cause any damage if it freezes, as it as lots of room to expand into.
 Cheers 

Sharon_is_SAM

@Denny16, while the cold low point drain can drain at least some of the Alde water tank via gravity (the cold supply enters the Alde from the bottom), Alde says to use the Safety/Drain valve to empty the Flow and main Alde water tank - I think because the hot line from the Flow exits at the top of the Flow tank, and once the water drops below that level, it won’t exit the Flow unless you use the Flow flapper valve.  Check out this thread.  We recently discussed the need to use the yellow valves instead of relying on the low point drains.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/190831#Comment_190831

Jay_and_Kat

So I stopped by the camper today on my way home, and snapped a couple pictures of the two yellow valves on the lines that run to/from my Alde.  If I'm understanding @Sharon_is_SAM correctly, I should get in there, lift both of them up and more water should drain out of the Alde?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vXKDQ119UURha51U9

I used a link to a shared Google Photos album so I could leave the photos at full size, possibly making it easier for people to see things.

pthomas745

Yes...those are the famous valves.

Jay_and_Kat

Well, I guess the wife and I are going to the storage lot tomorrow with a bucket...
I just hope we don't drain out all the pink stuff from the rest of the hot lines...

Denny16

Sharon, I realize to completely drain the water out of a TaB400, with the Flo, you need to open the yellow valves to drain all the water out.  The low point drain will drain out enough water to prevent freezing damage, I wasn’t suggesting not to open the yellow valves for a complete winterization prep.  My point was on a stainless steel tank, having a small amount ( not full) of water remaining would not damage the tank if it froze, as it would have room to expand inside the air space in the tanks.  

That said, I agree with you, it is best to open the yellow valves to get all the water out.  I was not suggesting not to open the yellow valves.  However, on the 2018 TaB 400, which does not have the Flow, there is a third low point drain which does completely drain the Alde hot water tank, I tested this, by draining the tank with the low point drain, and then opening yellow valve, no additional water was released.  I will be more carful about this in the future. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@Denny16 - no worries, just trying to make sure owners new to winterizing understand how the Alde system was designed to work.  @Jay_and_Kat are doing a complete winterizing prep.  I am not sure of their risk of freezing compared to your risk of freezing in the PNW, but better be safe than sorry and empty the Flow and Alde as much as possible.  

@Jay_and_Kat - assuming you have a full Alde water tank, one thing that has been recommended in the past to help assure owners that they have emptied their tank - place a bucket under the Alde tank drain and release the yellow flapper valve and open a cold tap.  After draining the tank, measure the volume.  If you get 2-2.5 gallons, you are good.  Same for the Flow tank - 1.5 gallons.

Jay_and_Kat

@Sharon_is_SAM I was hoping not to have to suck in a fresh jug of the antifreeze, but it sounds like that might be what's going to happen when we open the yellow valves tonight.  Also good to know that we're going to need more than the couple-gallon wash bucket I was going to bring, time to find the 5 gallon or we figure out how to get the drains lined up with our rhinobucket honey bucket...

At least I bought 2 gallons of the stuff!  Was somewhat surprised though, that we filled all the plumbing (well, except the Alde) with about a gallon.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Jay_and_Kat I suggest bringing a smaller bucket to make sure it fits under the area of the drain.  One thing, if you were in Winterize when you added the antifreeze, you would have prevented antifreeze from entering the Alde and Flow.  So, now when you open the Alde and Flow yellow flapper valves, only water should drain out, and you should not need to add any more antifreeze to your plumbing lines.  

Jay_and_Kat

@Sharon_is_SAM I sincerely hope you're right!  Mainly because I'm lazy and don't want to re-winterize the plumbing, and it's raining today so whoever's outside is gonna get wet!  But we were in "winterize" position for the Nautilus when we ran the pump, too, so we ought to be set there, too.

So a big THANK YOU! to:

@Sharon_is_SAM

@Denny16

@pthomas745

@dsfdogs

@dragonsdofly
@XenanMe

Denny16

Yes, follow Sharon’s advice, and the Yellow pressure relief valves will drain out any remaining water from the hot water tanks.  Since you used the low point drains first, you may not get as much water out, as the main Alde boiler tanks will not be completely full, some of the water may have already drained out.  The yellow valves will drain any remaining water from the system, and you are good to go for the winter.
 Cheers 

Jay_and_Kat

And that's another ~2gal of water out of the camper and hopefully we're set for the winter now!

Denny16

Grand, glad you got it sorted.
 Cheers