Unapproved — Winterizing the Alde 3020 in a 2021 TAB 320s

TommySax

Hi. I want to do my own winterizing. I've looked ALL OVER for good, consistent info on how to do this and not damage my Alde3020. Seems to be an ongoing controversy for years! I found this Youtube video with an interview from an Alde engineer: [https://youtu.be/drdxGky_Xo0] [time stamp 06:30]
I like the idea of NOT bypassing the Alde so that there is antifreeze in the entire system so the issue seems to be getting an antifreeze with a high enough boiling point spec (185F minimum) as I want to winter camp (dry) but still use the heating. I challenge you to try and find a boiling point spec on available antifreezes...I cannot!!  Last year my dealer used this product: [http://www.starbrite.com/item/winter-tech-50f-marine-rv-water-system-antifreeze?category_id=689] AND he did NOT bypass the Alde and I DID go winter camping and use the heater (I did not know any better and I haven't perceived any damage). Still hesitant, I even telephoned Starbrite in Florida and they couldn't tell me a boiling point spec. I tried this: I put 1 cup of antifreeze into a pot and boiled it on the stove. Using a candy thermometer, I discovered that it started boiling around 190F. At 185F it was hot but not bubbling. SO I'd like to think I am safe in using this product in the manner described but am wondering if anyone in this forum with more experience than me has any thoughts about this post. As a novice camping enthusiast, I TRULY THANK YOU!

Verna

@TommySax, there are many here who have owned their T@B 320’s and T@B S Max’s since 2015 and a year before when the Alde was introduced in the T@B’s. I sure we have learned quite a bit from nüCamp and Alde during that time. I recall very few water leaks in the spring from not winterizing properly. We’ve learned from others and that included learning to protect the toilet valve and the outside shower connections. We have all been very careful with the Alde since it is the most expensive of all of the components to replace, and we have helped each other to adhere to Alde’s instructions to bypass the Alde when winterizing. 

What we have learned is in the category to the left “User Manuals/PDF files…..”.  Here is the link to your model:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8904/dewinterizing-and-sanitizing#latest

What you do to your T@B is your business, but those of us who are more experienced will continue to follow Alde’s and nuCamp’s official instructions. 

CanadianTabber

Verna said:

@TommySax, there are many here who have owned their T@B 320’s and T@B S Max’s since 2015 and a year before when the Alde was introduced in the T@B’s. I sure we have learned quite a bit from nüCamp and Alde during that time. I recall very few water leaks in the spring from not winterizing properly. We’ve learned from others and that included learning to protect the toilet valve and the outside shower connections. We have all been very careful with the Alde since it is the most expensive of all of the components to replace, and we have helped each other to adhere to Alde’s instructions to bypass the Alde when winterizing. 

What we have learned is in the category to the left “User Manuals/PDF files…..”.  Here is the link to your model:  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8904/dewinterizing-and-sanitizing#latest

What you do to your T@B is your business, but those of us who are more experienced will continue to follow Alde’s and nuCamp’s official instructions. 

Thank you for posting this!
Brent

TommySax

Thank you so very much for your information. I really had to wonder about my TAB dealer's tech guy not bypassing the Alde when I paid them to winterize my baby last year. I questioned him, considering the instructions to bypass ... he said "how can you be certain that all of the water has been removed from the Alde"; that this is the way he does it and there's "lots of other information out there". He seems a bit arrogant. I'm not happy with his answer. In looking at the link you sent, I see there is a "de-winterizing" method that includes a version where the Alde was not bypassed (non-Nautilus version). You flush the AF out of the Alde, then bypass it when you're sanitizing with bleach - this makes sense to me. I have the Nautilus. As you say I'll have to decide, but I have to admit that to hear that one can put AF in the Alde (as long as its boiling point is over 185F) to keep it from freeze damage from an engineer that works for Alde seems pretty convincing. Check out the Youtube video. You only have to watch about 2 minutes of it starting at 6:30. I'd love to hear back if you watch it. Thanks again regardless!!

ScottG

There is really nothing new--or contentious--in this video. It's been generally understood that RV antifreeze would not harm the Alde HW tank, though there was some concern that certain antifreezes may boil or degrade if the Alde was used for cabin heat after the system was winterized. What Steve Bain says in the video is consistent with this, hence the recommendation to use a high boiling point antifreeze if such caveats apply to you.

Personally I don't use any antifreeze in the water system, but I do take care to blow everything out thoroughly--including the Alde HW tank. A simple draining would probably be enough, but since I've got the compressor hooked up and am blowing everything else out anyway, I figure I might as well do the same with the Alde. 

There are some interesting (if not particularly informative) tidbits later in the video where Bain talks about the switch the new glycol and the differences between the 3010 and 3020 models.

Denny16

I agree with ScottG, living on the west coast, I do not see a need to use RV Antifreeze, nor is there any real benefit to doing so.  I also just drain the tanks, blow out the waterlines for an extra bit of protection, and leave the galley tap open (let’s air out of any remaining small bits of water remain, to prevent the line from pressurizing from expanding water as it freezes).  Never had an issue, and getting the TaB ready to go in the spring, is just a matter of flushing out the tanks and filling the water system back up.  I also leave the black and gray tanks drain open, so it can not freeze and crack.  Place a bucket under the drain for any small drips (I drain and flush both my gray and black holding tanks), and Bob’s your uncle... 

If there is not any water in the tanks (which can have a small bit left in the bottom, without any issue), and water lines, there isn’t any risk of breaking a tank, valve or pipe due to expanding water as it freezes.

This is what I do, what others prefer to do, is up to that individual.  Do what makes you feel comfortable.  Personally, I do not want to deal with draining antifreeze in the spring, flushing it out, and disposing of the stuff, in addition to the added expense.  
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@TommySax - Alde reps in attendance at uCamp rallies have indicated that AF is not required.  Any small residual water left in the Alde tank is harmless.  You DO need to make sure the tank is well drained.  On the other hand, if you do not intend to heat the cabin over the winter, you can safely use AF in the Alde water tank.  

ScottG

Nor does Bain say anything that contradicts what the Alde reps at uCamp have offered.

Of note in the video is that Paul (the "Air Force Guy") states that Beckleys started using antifreeze in the Alde tanks after problems surfaced in units where the Alde was bypassed for winterization. He is not specific as to the nature of those problems.

I'm not trying to pick an argument here, but I do feel given the general lack of clear, comprehensive information regarding the Alde from either Truma/Alde or nuCamp, I always appreciate an additional tidbit or idea. It's up to me to determine the veracity of that idea, and to decide for myself whether or not to adapt it to my own circumstance.   

TommySax

I want to thank all of you for your replies. Living in Canada, I must use anti-freeze. It is indeed a shame that we can't get clear, comprehensive information regarding the Alde from either Truma/Alde or nuCamp unless you consider their "by-pass and blowing out lines" the only  trusted method. I don't really want to buy an air compressor either. Assuming that my "stove top boiling point determination method" was valid, and the fact that I perceive no Alde issues with my dealer's winterizing last year (no by-pass and no blowing) I am going to try it myself. BTW I contacted the "Air Force Guy" directly and he was of no further help - he just said he was glad I liked his video. And I found Steve Bayne on LinkedIn but my wife suggests that contacting him directly on that platform is not really a good idea. I do like to do some winter camping and use the heating system - we use bottled water and <removed inappropriate language> a "Luggable Loo" - it fits nicely on the 320s bathroom floor although my knees touch the door:) HAPPY CAMPING EVERYONE!

—Removed inappropriate language, Verna, T@B Forum Administrator