Help! Antifreeze not being pumped in

BandBBandB Member Posts: 48
We are trying to winterize our 2022 Tab 320S Boondock today. We're following the YouTube video that NuCamp put out recently. We blew the water out of the lines with our new air compressor. Put the Nautilus levers in the Winterize position, put the red Alde lever in the bypass position, hooked up a short hose to the Winterize port, put the other end of the hose in a gallon of antifreeze, turned the pump on (the switch inside the Nautilus) and... nothing. We can hear the pump, but nothing is getting pulled in. We tried filling the short hose with AF to help it get going, but still the AF wasn't being pulled in to the fresh tank from the AF jug. Appreciate any thoughts on what we should be doing. It's already cold here in MN. We snuck in one more camping trip while the weather was nice, but upon getting home we were hit with cold. Forecast is down to 32 degrees overnight.
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Comments

  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,757
    The pump needs priming.  After you fill the short hose with antifreeze, turn on the pump, then blow into the short hose and hold it up high.  If the pump starts to siphon, don’t let air enter, so quickly return the short end of the hose to under the surface of the antifreeze.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
  • BandBBandB Member Posts: 48
    @Sharon_is_SAM, thank you for your suggestion. We did exactly what you said twice (I even printed out your directions), but nothing happens. Does the diameter of the hose make any difference? We're using a 1/2 inch hose.


  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    This is one of the ongoing problems with this process of using the pump to draw up antifreeze. It works very inconsistently.   One owner filled the hose...and blew the antifreeze into the pump as it ran.  Other owners lift the bucket and shorten the draw the pump has to perform.
    An owner on the FB page the other day...tried everything for two days.  And then re-discovered the Camco antifreeze adapter. 

    Some owners have made their own adapters to connect to the pump. 



    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,757
    edited October 2022
    @BandB - not sure of the diameter hose.  Make sure your pump filter is clean and the filter cup is tight to prevent an air leak.
    Try keeping the pump off, add AF to the hose, then turn on the pump.
    Here is a link with other ideas for priming the pump for Winterizing.

    https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14407/winterizing-tab-400-boondock-2021-pump-problem/p1?new=1
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
  • BandBBandB Member Posts: 48
    @pthomas745 and @Sharon_is_SAM Thank you both so much for your input. We're going to hope for the best tonight and try your suggestions tomorrow. We have the heat on in the Tab and I put some AF in the toilet bowl, a little down the shower drain, and some down the KT sink. I'm so thankful for this forum! I would be lost otherwise.
  • BridgerSunsetBridgerSunset Member Posts: 101
    @BandB - a few points:

    By "short",  I'd suggest the hose be kept under 3 or 4 feet long; preferably a cut-off garden hose which I think are usually 5/8".   1/2" diameter could work.  But it needs to be made of a material rigid enough to resist collapsing from the suction power of the pump (like, don't use nylon).

    And if there's any kind of crack or split or hole in the suction hose, the pump likely won't catch prime (kinda like trying to drink through a straw with a hole in it). 

    And what @Sharon_is_SAM said regarding pump filter.

    Is there any chance the pump discharge is up against trapped pressure somehow from the air compressor operation?  I don't do that, so not sure what the possibility is.

    I assume you do have a faucet open somewhere in the camper when you're trying to get the pump going.  It helps.


    2021 T@B 400 Boondock  - Chev Silverado 3500HD 6.6L - Toyota 4Runner 4.0L
    SW Montana USA


  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    Someone on the FB page tonight was told by "someone" to pull the screen out of the city water inlet...and their pump started to draw antifreeze as soon as they pulled out the screen.  I don't know what the screen looks like, or if it was a coincidence, or what...but it worked for them.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,757
    I know there is a small screen on the ‘city water” inlet, but nit sure about the pump inlet.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    edited October 2022
    And:  now it seems that NuCamp has a winterizing video out for one of the newer models that says to take he little screen out of the city water connection when trying to pump antifreeze.  So, it seems NuCamp knows this isn't working well for the Nautilus.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • dsfdogsdsfdogs Member Posts: 605
    @pthomas745 The most recent video is for the 400 and covers years '21, '22, '23. The screen is pulled out only for the air compressor blowout plug, then put back in for the antifreeze siphoning. For the 2023 320 video they show a hose connection to the fresh inlet for both the air compressor and the antifreeze siphoning process and the filter remains in place for both.
    Debbie in Oregon
    2023 Tab 400 / 2022 F150 XLT Sport 3.5EB
    Traded in - 2018 T@B 320 S/2019 Toyota 4Runner SR5

  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    @dsfdogs Thanks for the correction and explanation.  I haven't been able to keep up with the FB comments this morning on this.  But....they are all off and running with "take the screen out to pump antifreeze."  So, thanks.
    Other comments are pointing out they got good results with the pump using shore power compared to battery.  So, lots of ideas, and the learning never stops!
    I'll actually watch the video after I have coffee.....


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    And.....the plot thickens.
    Here is the Famous 400 Winterizing Video, which was posted just yesterday. (Oct 14, 2022).
    At 1:34, the screen on the City Water inlet is removed to blow out the lines.
    At 2:10, the screen is replaced to add antifreeze.

    In the 320 video, posted on Oct 14, 2022.
    At 1:25, screen removed from City Water inlet to blow out the lines.
    At 2:20, screen replaced.

    Then they move over to the Winterize Port...the screen is clearly visible at 2:21....and no mention is made of taking it out. They happily pump antifreeze with the screen in.







    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • HoriganHorigan Member Posts: 684
    This discussion makes me so glad the older T@bs without the Nautilus don’t require antifreeze for winterization. 
    Rich
    2019 T@b 400
    2013 Toyota Highlander 3.5L V6
    Bellingham WA
  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    The newer ones really don't seem to, either, but NuCamp doesn't acknowledge the blow out method exists. 
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • BandBBandB Member Posts: 48
    Well, I think we got the antifreeze in! Thanks to all for your help. We ended up buying a longer funnel and a 5/8 inch garden hose plus we opened the sink faucet. Hopefully this goes easier next fall!
    @Sharon_is_SAM, I must have started this discussion in the wrong place. The heading says "For Sale New/used trailers. Sorry about that.
  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,757
    Thanks @BandB.  I moved it to a different category.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
  • BucksterBuckster Member Posts: 62
    This is one of the ongoing problems with this process of using the pump to draw up antifreeze. It works very inconsistently.



    Add me to the growing list of T@B owners who are continuing to encounter this problem. I am trying to winterize our 2022 320 and I have tried every suggestion –– elevating the hose and funnel, blowing into the hose to force the antifreeze into the pump -- absolutely NOTHING has worked. 

    pthomas: I looked at the Camco antifreeze adapter from Amazon but after looking at all the hose lines on our 2022 T@B 320, I'm unsure which one to attempt to take a part in order to prime the pump.  I am also unfamiliar with the metal hose clamps nuCamp uses, how do they come off?

    Honestly, I'd rather not take any of those lines apart.  The other thing I noticed is that the pump is mounted above (elevated) the inlet lines, making it that much harder to get fluid to the pump to prime it.  Does anyone else have any suggestions?  It's especially frustrating when I read in other threads that it appears that nuCamp is aware of this particular problem. 
    2022 T@B 320 CS-S Boondock
    2018 Nissan Frontier 4x4
    SW Ohio
  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    @Buckster find your pump, and look at the inlet side of the pump.  The "three way" adapter connects there.  It just unscrews from the pump, the adapter screws in.  The video from Travels with Delaney below shows how they used it on their 2018 Tab 400. About the 3 minute mark. Your setup may look different, of course.
    So, find the pump, take pictures if you need to.

    Here is a thread showing the same trailer, but there are photos showing the adapter being connected directly to the pump inlet.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • Yoshi_TABYoshi_TAB Member Posts: 440
    edited October 2023
    Hi @Buckster ,

    I just winterized my '21 320 today with the Nautalis System.  I noticed when I had the the siphon in the antifreeze jug and turned the pump on first, nothing happen when all the faucets were closed.   Once I opend the kitchen or bathroom faucet, it immediate began to suck in antifreeze.  That may work ...
    2021 TAB 320 BD
    2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee
    Southern Maryland
  • bjn2bjn2 Member Posts: 95
    My 2023 refused to siphon until I raised the level of the antifreeze jug higher than the hose connection in the Nautilus. 
    Utah-based
    2023 T@B 320 S Boondock
  • BucksterBuckster Member Posts: 62
    Thanks for the responses. @Yoshi_TAB that's what I ended up doing as well. I had tried everything else to no avail but when I opened the kitchen faucet, the pump finally began draw antifreeze.  There's a lot to like about the Nautilus system overall, but this is a significant issue that needs to be addressed and fixed.
    2022 T@B 320 CS-S Boondock
    2018 Nissan Frontier 4x4
    SW Ohio
  • BridgerSunsetBridgerSunset Member Posts: 101
    By opening an elevated valve in the camper, you are allowing trapped air to escape the plumbing system.  Pumps don't like to pump air, and any air present in the system just gets compressed and then uncompressed within the piping system with every stroke of the positive displacement pump.  So there's no net fluid flow with every stroke, and the pump runs but doesn't actually move liquid.

    I'm  pretty sure this failure to evacuate air in the piping is the cause of most frustrations in winterizing. 
    2021 T@B 400 Boondock  - Chev Silverado 3500HD 6.6L - Toyota 4Runner 4.0L
    SW Montana USA


  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    Not disputing the "opening a faucet" trick, but, why does the antifreeze suddenly start to flow with everything closed and just by lifting the container higher than the city water inlet?  Why wouldn't the trapped air stop it in that case, too? 

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • BridgerSunsetBridgerSunset Member Posts: 101
    Always it's necessary that these pumps are provided with their required "net positive suction head" (NPSH).   Different for every type pump.  This pump for example, per Pentair, is recommended to be installed within 6' of the supply source, presumably to insure a flooded suction.  If much further away than that, then friction losses in the suction line can cause the pump to push water away faster than it can enter the pump, and air is pulled in or cavitation results.  Lifting the container also uses height to satisfy the NPSH to prime the pump.

    As for a closed system & simply raising the jug alone kickstarting things, I can only speculate that air is minimally present at high points in the piping, or is dispersed enough to not affect fluid-packed displacement.  Good question.
    2021 T@B 400 Boondock  - Chev Silverado 3500HD 6.6L - Toyota 4Runner 4.0L
    SW Montana USA


  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    edited November 2023
    Gee. I love that kind of talk!  Thanks for that explanation.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • Happy_Camper2Happy_Camper2 Member Posts: 22
    Ok, Tab friends, I have a Tab 320S Boondock 2021. Trying to winterize before the severe unexpected freeze here in Texas.  We were just going to make do with keeping it heated during lighter freezes but 9 degrees is a bit unusual here.

    Anyway, I can't get the antifreeze to suck up after I blew out my lines.  I have tried everything I know: faucets open and closed, pouring it directly in my short hose...we ordered an RV hand pump antifreeze kit that arrives tomorrow (I hope this works but I'm worried).

    Do you have any other suggestions?
  • manyman297manyman297 Member Posts: 1,361
    I know some have had luck filling your hose with antifreeze and blowing into the end to force it into the pump to prime it.
    2021 400 BD
    2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road 
  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,982
    The FB groups are flooded with reports of "Nautilus won't pump antifreeze" this morning, during the Great Freeze of 2024.  No amounts of work arounds, opening valves, raising the bucket, filling with a funnel, blowing into the hose....has worked.  I wonder how much the viscosity of the AF changes when the temps get lower?  (I have no experience with antifreeze for the trailer.)
    Bottom line: there shouldn't be this many workarounds and threads for something that should be bone simple.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
  • Steve_OSteve_O Member Posts: 2
    I had the same problem and none of the fixes above helped. Turns out it was the check valve. The pump was not strong enough to generate enough suction to depress the check valve. See the video below for a solution. I had to prime the pump once I reversed the screen by holding the hose higher than the input and manually pouring in some antifreeze and the pump started siphoning right away. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woFYXINF4DM
  • Gomers2Gomers2 Member Posts: 22
    Yes, it's the check valve. Reverse the screen so the cone points in and contacts the valve tip. The pump doesn't generate enough suction to open the valve like city water would, especially if it is sucking air to begin with. This is why it sometimes works when you get some liquid against the valve. NEVER press the valve button when the tanks are pressurized by the pump. Relieve pressure by opening taps first. 
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