Switching to Lithium - So many choices

SLJ

Yes they've gotten cheaper. Question is, Which brand do you have installed and like or dislike? A 100AH LiFePO4 lists for under $300 now and ranges up to $900 with built in BMS for preventing over charging. What is nuCamp installing? Interested in knowing what's already out there in use.

kottum

We purchased the expensive Nucamp 320s because it has proven to be among the best and relatively trouble-free over the long haul.  We purchased two Battle Born batteries for the same reason.

pthomas745

I have one of the 100 AH Ampere Time, which is now the LiTime battery in the photo.  Works fine.  Lithium batteries are a maturing market, and the batteries are moving toward a standardized BMS, with many battery companies using..the same BMS. 

If you are trying to learn about these, I urge you to simply browse through some Will Prowse lithium battery tear down videos.  Once you see a power saw open up a few dozen batteries and listen to him point out the pluses and minuses of each, you will learn what you are really buying.  You can probably find reviews on each of those batteries in the photo.  Very educational.

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse/search

He also has a page of recommended lithium batteries at several price points, including the AmpereTime, the Battleborns, an SOK battery.  A new addition is a battery for 400 dollars that includes low and high temp charging protection that he (apparently) reviewed positively.  Owners in this group have purchased the AmpereTime, the Battleborns, and the SOK.

https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html

The thing that I learned about while watching these videos: what is the story on "low temperature charging of a lithium battery"?  I live in a warm climate, don't camp in too much "freezing" weather.  I realized I did not need a battery with "low temp charging protection" and went with the 400 dollar AmpereTime.  I bought a new solar controller with a "dongle" that will cut off charging if I ever get into that situation.

dsfdogs

nuCamp is installing Battle Born (heated) 100ah batteries in the 400's and as an upgrade in the others.

I also had one in my 320S. I will now have two in my 400. It's the only brand battery I would buy as I trust their technology, assembled in the US and their office is in Nevada and they answer the phones and respond to emails and are very helpful.

DenisP

I installed two Battleborn 100ah heated batteries while on a cross-country trip as my AGMs reached end of life in my 2018 400.  Battleborn could not have been more helpful including shipping the batteries and cables to a reserved RV site.  The batteries arrived on time and Battleborn was available on the phone to answer any setup questions in addition to the printed information provided with the batteries.  The setup was straightforward for the Victron DC/DC charger, solar controller and BMV 712.   They helped me out of a jam and that buys a lot of my loyalty.

Denny16

Yes, I felt the Battle Born batteries are worth the extra few $, and this is what our local TaB dealer is installing on Ta/s being retrofitted to lithium.  Close by dealer support is worth going the extra mile and dollar.  Battle Born batteries also carry one of the best warranties.
 Cheers 

webers3

I too have the 100 AH Ampere Time, it works just fine. I do not camp in below freezing temps so not worried about destroying the battery

tphaggerty

I have 3 Renogy Smart batteries, the non-Bluetooth ones. Very happy. Make sure that whatever battery you buy has a low temperature charging cutoff. 

subfreq111

I've got two 170ah Renogy's bought in 2020 for $1282 each, looks like the 200ah is now the better value at 999. Not sure how that compares to the Battleborn, but my experience with Renogy has been excellent. 4 flexible solar panels, solar controller, 3000W inverter and batteries are all Renogy and have all worked flawlessly. Haven't plugged into shore power since I installed the system 3 years ago. 

elbolillo

I have 3 100Ah Battleborn batteries in my 2023 Tab 400. They are a high quality product with an excellent BMS. And Battleborn customer service and support is top notch. Any time I have had questions regarding installation, they have been very prompt in responding.

AnOldUR

Not mentioned is the Dr. Prepare 100Ah LiFePO. Will Prowse did a review a year ago with bad results, but it appears they have taken note and made many updates. The BMS has been upgraded and now includes both high and low temperature detection that's been tested and works. There have been several reviews of the newer version that confirm the redesign is a huge improvement. The tear down in this video shows that the quality of the build is now very good. If what I've read is correct, these are made by Renogy and if purchased from Dr. Prepare they come with a 10 year warranty.

If Battleborn  were only an extra few $ it would an easy decision to go with the name brand. I shop for value as well as quality. With this battery at less than half the cost of a Battleborn, it becomes more difficult to decide. As of now, two of these can be had for $576 (w/ free shipping). What's a poor boy to do?

SLJ

AnOldUR said:

Not mentioned is the Dr. Prepare 100Ah LiFePO. Will Prowse did a review a year ago with bad results, but it appears they have taken note and made many updates. The BMS has been upgraded and now includes both high and low temperature detection that's been tested and works.

They state right on the 100AH battery page that "our battery doesn't have low-temperature protection!" and "the function of low-temperature protection is not essential in actual use." so right there it's a no go.  https://drprepare.com/12v-100ah-lifepo4-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/

AnOldUR

SLJ said:
They state right on the 100AH battery page that "our battery doesn't have low-temperature protection!" and "the function of low-temperature protection is not essential in actual use." so right there it's a no go.

You're looking at the old version of this battery ... try this link.

.... but some people will not be happy if their battery doesn't have a Battleborn sticker on it.

SLJ

They changed their tune from it's not necessary... Still not good enough. "When the temp reaches 23℉~41℉, this lithium battery will stop being charged". Cut off should be at 32 degrees period, not below to prevent damage. At 40 degrees it should still charge. Lousy specs. Battery is frozen at 23 degrees. There is still no way I'd buy one of these.

AnOldUR

SLJ said:

... Still not good enough. "When the temp reaches 23℉~41℉, this lithium battery will stop being charged".

For anyone interested in the Dr. Prepare battery, the "23℉~41℉ " in their advertising is misleading. The confusion is that the numbers actually represent two different cutoffs; one is a charging cutoff, the other is a discharging cutoff. They use the same BMS as many other popular batteries. Customer support has been good. I've emailed them several times and always gotten responses. I asked for clarification on the cutoffs and got the reply below.

 ...The battery will stop discharging when the temp is below 21℉ or over 122℉, and will stop charging when the temp is below 41℉ or over 113℉. ...

akarjala

I have a 2018 400 that had the large 240 amp hour AGM battery.  I just replaced the original in the last couple of months with two battleborn 100 amp hour batteries which I got on their" b stock blowout" for a reduced price. I am very pleased with the customer service and the quality of the batteries. One thing to remember is that you will need to upgrade the converter so that it can fully charge the lithium batteries. If you go with battleborn, you can call them and they will help you spec out everything you need. I found the upgrades to be fairly straightforward. One other good thing is that the much lighter lithium ion batteries can be placed in other locations under the bed because they are not nearly as heavy as the original AGM batteries. I built a "case" around my batteries so that I wasn't shoving things into them from rear hatch door.

It will be a little while until I camp completely unplugged as my next couple of trips will have full power, water and sewer. However, I plan to run a few tests during those trips so that I can be assured everything is going to work great when I start boondocking in late spring and early summer. 

pthomas745

You do not "need" to change out the converter to make it charge a lithium battery.  My trailer solar setup can completely charge a lithium, and if I ever need to, I have a simple smart charger that can charge a lithium battery.  The WFCO in my 2017 brings my 100 ah lithium to about 85 percent state of charge when I tested it.

SLJ

I doubt I'll change out my converter. Not really needed. I'm leaning toward adding a good quality lithium charger that runs off AC so when plugged into shore power the batteries will be switched out of the system and the new charger will keep the Lithium batteries topped off. Converter runs everything the battery does. When disconnected from shore power the batteries will be topped off by my onboard solar and/or my portable panels sitting out in the sun. At some point in the future when the converter bites the dust I will upgrade it.

SLJ

Lithium Batteries arrive next week. Most everything else is here. Here's the plan.
Batteries will be switched off when on shore power. Not using the [email protected]'s WFCO converter for charging.

AnOldUR

No experience with a shunt, but it looks like the inverter is on the wrong side?

SLJ

AnOldUR said:

No experience with a shunt, but it looks like the inverter is on the wrong side?

You are correct. It would be on the other side of the shunt. Inverter will be added last anyway if I decide I need it. Haven't needed one so far. (corrected)

JamesC

I went with the Renogy 200ah lithium battery with Bluetooth. Haven’t been camping yet and am in the process of giving it a few days with lights, the fridge and the Alde running to see how it does. I did upgrade my converter to the WFCO 8955 Lis (the one with the switch) and it seemed to charge the battery correctly. The read out from the Victron is interesting. We’ll see!

CharlieRN

Battleborn has a sale on right now; their 100 Ah batteries either heated or not are about $100 off list. Battleborn's are well-made (domestically to boot), have a great BMS and the company provides excellent customer support. The only real drawback that I can see is that they are a bit more pricey than those from the other side of the Pacific, though the sale price narrows that gap considerably.

CharlieRN

SLJ said:

Lithium Batteries arrive next week. Most everything else is here. Here's the plan.
Batteries will be switched off when on shore power. Not using the [email protected]'s WFCO converter for charging.

Out of curiosity, why do you want to isolate the batteries from the camper's WFCO? I understand that it may be an older unit that will not charge LiFePO4 batteries to 100%, but that's only necessary occasionally and can be done via your solar.

SLJ

CharlieRN said:

Out of curiosity, why do you want to isolate the batteries from the camper's WFCO? I understand that it may be an older unit that will not charge LiFePO4 batteries to 100%, but that's only necessary occasionally and can be done via your solar.

Keeping a constant charge on them which happens when you charge them to 80% with a lead acid charger and not having the Lithiums float at the proper voltage reduces their life. If you use an older WFCO you should not leave it connected after the lithiums reach 80%.

kottum

What is the correct way to store LiFePO4 batteries ?  Fully charged, partially charged, charge then deplete a few times a month ?  Or ?  We've read it all here.

SLJ

I'd store them at around 50%. I've been told to never store at 100%. If longer than a few months (3-4) I'd charge them and run them back down to 50%. I will most likely pull mine and bring them into the house for the winter and throw an AGM back in there temporally.

kottum

Not all LPO batteries are the constructed the same or have the same battery management system (BMS), best to learn the specific needs of the battery brand you actually using, instead of lumping them all together.

We use Battle Born batteries so I go the the Battle Born site for information.  For example here is a page and short video from their site on winterization and storage.  It is quite different than what is being suggested on this discussion.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/faq-how-to-winterize-your-batteries/

SLJ

kottum said:

Not all LPO batteries are the constructed the same or have the same battery management system (BMS), best to learn the specific needs of the battery brand you actually using, instead of lumping them all together.

We use Battle Born batteries so I go the the Battle Born site for information.  For example here is a page and short video from their site on winterization and storage.  It is quite different than what is being suggested on this discussion.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/faq-how-to-winterize-your-batteries/

Not that much different. If it is disconnected then there's little chance it will loose charge if it's anywhere above 50%. Storing a battle born at 70% won't hurt it in the least. The only thing you should watch for is parasitic drains.

Horigan

SLJ said:

CharlieRN said:

Out of curiosity, why do you want to isolate the batteries from the camper's WFCO? I understand that it may be an older unit that will not charge LiFePO4 batteries to 100%, but that's only necessary occasionally and can be done via your solar.

Keeping a constant charge on them which happens when you charge them to 80% with a lead acid charger and not having the Lithiums float at the proper voltage reduces their life. If you use an older WFCO you should not leave it connected after the lithiums reach 80%.

Is that what really happens when charging a LiFeO4 battery with a lead/AGM charger?  I assumed it would just enter a float mode at a 80% charge level.

bergger

As far as I know your old converter should be able to charge from 80-85%.  But if you have good solar and a good solar charge controller that should be able to top the batteries off.  As the solar keeps charging the remaining 15-20% the converter should kick into float mode.  So in my opinion it is not necessary to upgrade the converter/charger but it would be nice to do so at some point.  It also depends on your solar situation and camping situation I suppose.