Factory Lithium Setups in the new 2023 320 models

pthomas745

We have several useful threads with pictures of the 400 Factory Lithium installs. 

But, it seems there is only 1 photo of a Factory Lithium installs.    New owners are launching now.  On the FB group pages, there is considerable confusion about the who/what/where of the various parts of the 320 setup.  It is much more complicated than before.  If anyone can provide some photos it would be very helpful. 

Where is the Gloso circuit breaker?  Where is the battery switch?  Do all of the new 320 lithium options include an inverter? 

Or: maybe it is just me that is confused!  But, pictures will definitely help.

I did find a thread with the 2023 "Lithium Package Breakdown" for the 320, but it appears that some 320s are having lithium batteries installed without the inverter and Multiplus, etc?

MuttonChops

Gosh, this will be fun when new owners are having issues . . . .
Plus more storage space in our little trailers gets eaten up by equipment

The nüCamp 2023 Tab Owners Manual implies all Lithium Package build will get the same set of component:

Readings the above indicates the very basic connections will be: (plus in-line breakers, fuses, ??)

Image deleted . . . see more recent in posts below

pthomas745

That is a start, thanks.  I don't want to blame the owners here, but they have been handed a very complex system, with many moving parts, and really have no idea on where to look.  Their batteries are "dead", but they cannot seem to sort out the Victron, the gloso, the fuses, the Multiplus charger...if they even have the Multiplus.  Add the issue of the Battleborn's needing to be "jump started" when they go below a certain level....so, at least I wanted to have some photos to show people what to look for.

MuttonChops

@pthomas745 ;  I'm all for PICTURES of the equipment spaces.
1 in 100 if that Dealer RV Video's include images or discussion about what is 'behind the doors' . . . drives me crazy

Hopefully, some new owners will start sharing meaningful 'for us tech folks' pictures.

DustD

Hi, I recently purchased a 2023 TAB 320s with the Lithium package.  Appreciate all the info here. I just took a few pics. Let me know if I can provide more details.

MuttonChops

DustD said:
. . . 2023 TAB 320s with the Lithium package.

Please clarify the location of the Multiplus . . upper picture.

For lower Picture what are you 'highlighting' ?

P.S.  thanks for the pictures.

elbolillo

MuttonChops said:

DustD said:
. . . 2023 TAB 320s with the Lithium package.

Please clarify the location of the Multiplus . . upper picture.

For lower Picture what are you 'highlighting' ?

P.S.  thanks for the pictures.

Multiplus is directly under the passenger side of the trailer below the seat cushion.

DustD

Lower pic,  I was trying to highlight this Bus Smart Dongle and location. Better pic below.  Correct on location on multiplus.  Another pic shows both in one view.

MuttonChops

@DustD  &  @elbolillo    Thanks for the clarification.

So the equipment configuration under the bench seats and rear sofa is: {{correct?}}


So from a general storage view. The 320 yr-2023 Lithium Package has storage space in the 'wall cabinets**' and some minor space under the Drivers Side Bench . . . a big change from the pre-Air8, flooded-battery model years that had the Air8 space and Passenger Bench open for general storage . . .

** non-microwave option rigs have another cabinet in that area.

MuttonChops

Preliminary version-01      Li-Ion Package Overview  Tab 320 yr-2023
         deleted, see version-02 in a later post

SLJ

When I converted my 2021 320 to lithium over the Winter I used the same areas. Two 100AH batteries under the passenger bench and a Victron smart charger for charging them in the back next to the Air8. I'm not using the WFCO for charging and I don't have a need for an inverter at this point but can easily add a 2,000 watt for around $350 later.

pthomas745

@DustD , thank you for that advance of Tab Science!  Very useful. 

Questions: where is the Battery Disconnect Switch?

In SLJ's picture above,  on the bottom row, there are two circuit breakers.  Does your 320 have a circuit breaker like this?  If so, where?

On the AIMS Power fuse, what is the Amp rating of the fuse inside (if you can see it!).  The 400's have a 150 amp fuse, and I'm guessing yours might be the same.

@SLJ, in your setup, you use several of the circuit breakers.  I'm guessing the two breakers are in place of regular battery fuses for convenience?  And, what is the purpose of the breaker over on the right side? Just curious.  I can barely crimp wires very well, so I'm always impressed with this sort of install. 

Thanks again for everyone's effort!  The next trick will be to label all that wiring!  I'm assuming that battery heaters are involved here somehow?

And, one more: is there a Single Lithium Option? With fewer bells and whistles?

MuttonChops

pthomas745 said:
@DustD , . . . where is the Battery Disconnect Switch?

Found it - - - On right of picture, at older access door location.

elbolillo

Maybe it is just me, but the lithium install on the '23 Tab 320 looks messy and thrown together without much thought. I definitely think they could have done a better job of routing the wires and the inverter seems to be sitting at a weird angle. Not very elegant.

MuttonChops

Preliminary version-02      Li-Ion Package Overview  Tab 320 yr-2023

Based on pictures @DustD provided and review of BattleBorn and Victron Manuals.
pdf format also attached

version-02 has been deleted,  version-03 is posted later in this thread

SLJ

pthomas745 said:

@SLJ, in your setup, you use several of the circuit breakers.  I'm guessing the two breakers are in place of regular battery fuses for convenience?  And, what is the purpose of the breaker over on the right side? Just curious.  I can barely crimp wires very well, so I'm always impressed with this sort of install.

The breakers are also switches. The two square ones are for the batteries. I can switch each battery off individually. The rounder one on the right is coming from the charger. My main disconnect for everything is on the left. Here's the schematic.

DustD

This is great info! @pthomas745, I don't see any circuit breakers like the pic you referenced but I could be missing something. Are there any other pics or info I can gather from my setup to assist?

MuttonChops

DustD said:
. . .  any other pics or info I can gather from my setup to assist?

More pictures are always a positive even if showing 'same stuff' but from different angles and 'zooms'.
Referencing your picture:

  Is  " A "  a fuse link or a breaker

  Can you confirm that the Fuse Wires " B " are indeed the battery internal heater connection.

  Is " C " the Smart Shunt, a close-up picture would be nice.

The image below shows typical Tab 400 components.
We're trying to determine which of these the Li-Ion Pkg 320 has.
                          + Fuse Link  ( 'A' above ??)
                          + Gloso Breaker
                          + A Common 12vDC Distribution Block

And, does your rig have Solar?
    If Yes;  Controller location/picture, solar panel fuse loc/pic.
         How is Controller wired to Battery or MultiPlus

DustD

Sorry for the delay. Here are pics referencing the area you circled.   Im not certain on your last 2 questions. I can look if you point me in the direction. 

MuttonChops

Preliminary version-03      Li-Ion Factory Package Overview  Tab 320 yr-2023

Wiring Diagram
   Based on pictures @DustD provided and review of BattleBorn and Victron Manuals.

Diagram is too large and too detailed to be included as an image.
Please see Attached pdf file

P.S.  expect this will be the last update based on Picture Information
        Actual wire tracing required for greater accuracy & detail.

pthomas745

@DustD, thanks.  The setup you have has several things that match parts in previous Tab 400 builds. The bottom picture in your post is the Victron Shunt, labeled as "C" in MuttonChops photo.  (A shunt is not "standard" in all 400's, but is standard with the big 4 battery lithium setup).

We are guessing your middle photo above is labeled as "A" in MuttonChops photo.  In the previous 400 builds with inverters, that fuse was a 150 amp "Stinger" fuse.  If you can get a good look at it to confirm the amp rating, that would be great.  We are also assuming it is wired toward the Victron Multiplus.

In the 400's with various battery setups, NuCamp added a 40 amp circuit breaker on top of the battery fuses for various reasons.  In the 400's it was a "Gloso" breaker.  It would be nice to know where that is, also.

The thread linked below has pictures of the "Stinger" fuse inside the plastic case.  There is also a picture of what the "Gloso" circuit breaker looks like.  I believe the new lithium 400's have the same type of breaker, but with a different manufacturer. It would be nice to know where that breaker is. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14932/bought-a-t-b-400-boondock-yesterday-furnace-and-battery-question-please

I'm not sure what "B" is asking for, either!

This thread has photos of a 400 install and one of the pictures is of a "battery distribution block". You may or may not have one, but it would be nice to know if you do.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12661/installing-victron-bmv-712-battery-monitor-in-2021-t-b-400

Your Victron Solar controller is a blue rectangular box with the solar panel cables and the cables to the battery coming from it.  Hopefully it will be somewhere near all this wiring to make things easier.

DustD

Hi @pthomas745. It looks like most of those are in the driver side storage behind shower. I was not able to visibly read an amp rating per first question. 

pthomas745

@DustD, thanks so much for digging around for this!  This is..heroic work! The "Stinger" fuse you couldn't see is most likely a 150 amp like the others in the 400.

Were you able to discover a "battery distribution block?"  It should be close to the batteries.  In the 400's it looks like this:

Black93fiveO

For those who have real world testing results how long does the air conditioner last on those two batteries?

AnOldUR

@Black93fiveO
I've run my Air8 for three hours on two 100Ah LiFePO4's during testing. Could have gone longer, but I don't have a shunt so didn't know my exact state of charge. How long you can go would depend greatly on the outside temperature and how often the compressor has to cycle on.

jamesdn1948

For those of you with a 2023 320 with the factory lithium package. Are you aware that the 2kw inverter charger has a built in ups function? With the inverter switch in the "on" position commercial power is passed thru to the trailer. If the power fails the inverter switches the trailer loads to the batteries. This works on mine if the loads are light but if the Air8 is running it's a no go. The ac quits (doesn't restart) and anything electronic is reset including the 12v radio. On one occasion the inverter went into an error state. What's up with that? Has anyone experienced this? Too bad the ac doesn't restart after a power failure.

pthomas745

@jamesdn1948 one of the reasons this thread was started is...we don't know what we don't know.  Only a few owners have checked in and gave us help with where everything is and the basics of how things work.  So, any information you can provide about the UPS function is useful.  (I think we need to dig into the Multiplus manual!)

jamesdn1948

pthomas745 said:

@jamesdn1948 one of the reasons this thread was started is...we don't know what we don't know.  Only a few owners have checked in and gave us help with where everything is and the basics of how things work.  So, any information you can provide about the UPS function is useful.  (I think we need to dig into the Multiplus manual!)

Well I didn't think that there were too many out there with a 2023 with the factory lithium package but I thought that I would give it a try anyway. The multiplus manual is where I discovered the ups function but unfortunately it is not very detailed and what I posted is all that I gathered from it. Might have to give Victron a call. 

MuttonChops

@jamesdn1948 ;  You are correct per the Manual the Multiplus can function as a UPS.

Which is one of it's default features generally described in Marketing Literature (Victor, nuCamp) as:
    Multiplus charges the battery when connected
    to shore power and does 120V AC passthrough.

    When shore power is unavailable, the integrated
    inverter can provide 120V AC to the entirety of the
    camper using available battery power

That's because the MultiPlus includes a Fast Automatic Transfer Switch, when 120VAC Shore Power is not available or drops out the MultiPlus Inverter automatically turns-on and takes up the load using the Batteries as the power source.  As your experiment shows it works but is not as Fast to switch or as continuous power as some VAC appliances might like.

We Campers can control this feature via the 'Switch' on the MultiPlus or the VictronConnect App.  The Multiplus can be set to Charger-Only so the batteries aren't loaded with the VAC loads when source power drops out.

reilersjr

Can anyone confirm that there is no WFCO charging circuit in the 2023 320s Lithium package?  Looks to me like the WFCO is only the WC-8930/50 panel which is a converter with no charging circuit.  I want to charge my batteries from my TV while rolling down the road.  I've purchased a Victron Orion DC-DC 12/12-18 charger to wire up.  Just started digging in to the details and traced the hot wire from the 7 pin trailer plug to the junction box(where it changes color from black to red) then into the camper to the back of WFCO distribution panel.  And that's when I realized I don't think there is a stock charging circuit from the 7 pin plug.

I guess NuCamp figured Solar and the inverter charging circuit's would do?

Thanks for any previous insight.  Not a lot of threads on this topic.  I plan on documenting my installation if the masses confirm my suspicions.

MuttonChops

reilersjr said:
Can anyone confirm that there is no WFCO charging circuit in the 2023 320s Lithium package?

. . . traced the hot wire from the 7 pin trailer plug to the junction box(where it changes color from black to red) then into the camper to the back of WFCO distribution panel. 

[1]  Correct, the Lit-Package WFCO panel is only for power distribution.
       Battery Charging is generated in the Multi-plus.

[2]  You are the first owner to trace-out the 7-pin wiring of the Aux Battery 12+ Source to
        the Lit-Package setup.

[3]   As far as known (today) there are no Current Direction Flow control elements in the 12VDC
       wiring.  That is no diode restricting current flow direction . . . So it seems reasonable that the
       7-pin +12VDC goes to the WFCO panel, then to the batteries via the installed wiring.

       Of course the TV +12VDC supply will only provide as few Amp-Hours of charging capacity.