ALDE 3010 Mystery...maybe?

Tampakayaker

Camped a couple weeks ago, not using heat, or hot water, so I had the Alde control panel turned off.  Second night camping about 6 am, heard a odd dripping gurgling sound.  Didn't have water connected so was kind of freaking out.

After we got up I started investigating.  Ended up being the glycol tank gurgling/fluid running  Fluid level was about 1/2 way between min and max.

Checked the control panel, still turned off.  Turned it on, temp was set as low as it could go, same with water temp, A/C and propane turned off. See attached photo.  I could feel the ALDE vibrating which I assumed was the pump running. 

I disconnected the 12v pump wire, still running, when I also disconnected the 230v pump wire it stopped.  Hooked the 12v back up with the 230v disconnected and started running again.  It would only stop with the 2 pump lines disconnected

Hooked both back up and disconnected the control panel wire, still running, so I didn't seem like the control panel was bad.  Hooked it back up.

Disconnected the 12v input line and the running stopped.

So, do I have an issue, or does the ALDE pump run all the time? 

Do I have a defective ALDE motherboard?

Why did it take over 24 hours before we started hearing the gurgling?

Also I seen discussions on grounding the ALDE to prevent blown fuses, where on the cabinet do you attach a ground wire/lug?  I don't see and place in particular.

ScottG

No, the Alde pump should not run all the time.

This is not a complaint I've heard before, but the symptoms you describe--and the steps you took to diagnose them--could be consistent with a motherboard issue.

The pump is designed to run directly on 12V, or on 120V via a 12V relay. Pulling one plug or the other will presumably just cause the pump to switch between power supplies. Pulling both would cut all power to the pump and the pump wouldn't run.

The motherboard itself runs exclusively on 12V, and the motherboard activates the pump via the 12V direct or 12V relay circuits. Pulling the power to the motherboard would cut off both circuits and the pump wouldn't run.

So, this could suggest that whatever motherboard switch doohicky that activates the pump (and is ordinarily controlled by the thermostat via the control panel) has failed in the closed position, causing the pump to run all the time. This is just a guess, but it's hard to see what else could be at fault unless there is some other system component in the mix that I am not aware of.

If you haven't found it already, the 3010 Operating Manual has some electrical schematics that might be of help.

(Lastly, note that the is no 230V supply to North American Aldes. The image on page 16 of the manual has a typo.)

pak

Scott, love your technical term, (switch doohicky). 

goforth

I had my Alde serviced and found that the tech turned the pump to continuous instead of thermal. This setting didn't allow hot water to heat since the glycol was circulating.  It also meant the 'water dripping' sound was coming from the tank in the TAB 400 closet.  Changing back to thermal from continuous (Therm / Cont on control panel) resolved it.

Bayliss

I agree with @goforth.  Check to confirm that your Alde circulation pump is set to "Therm" (i.e., Thermostat mode) in the "Settings" menu.

Grumpy_G

Note that there is no AC power pump in the T@b application. The pump is an either/or option. For RVs it is a 12V pump and for fixed installations (e.g. cabins) there is a relay that can control a third party pump. I think Alde never marketed the system for fixed installations in the US. 

Why the pump was running is anybody's guess. It might have been some glitch or there is a problem with control board. 

ScottG

Good catch on the "continuous" pump setting, @goforth and @Bayliss. However, I would think (but I am not at all certain) that disconnecting the control panel would have negated that setting.

@Grumpy_G, the circulator pump on the Alde 3010 can indeed be powered by either 12V or 120V. At least that is what is indicated in the operating manual--including the wiring schematics--specific to U.S. and Canadian Aldes.

Grumpy_G

@ScottG: Disagree, the Alde pump is 12V only. The system can use a relay-controlled 120/230V pump but Alde doesn't offer any themselves. 

The diagrams for the European market and the US/CAN market are identical (down to the spelling error 'sparkpluggs') except for the voltages changed to 120V. The only thing specific for the US market is the litany of "you can hurt yourself if you're stupid" warnings.. 

Tampakayaker

Checked the control menu, circulation was set to Therm.  Started thinking, maybe the ALDE just hums and the pump wasn't really running.  So did the contortionist move and opened up the ledge to get to the reservoir.  Took the cap off and there was plenty of circulation going on.  Since we are in FL, I don't see the need for ALDE heat anytime soon, so I pulled the 12v input line off the unit.

Previous time we took it out everything seemed ok.  I did blow the grounding fuse prepping for the last trip and replaced with a similar one, but it was a slo-blo.  Wondering if that damaged the MB.

Grumpy_G

Did you try doing the "system reset" from the control panel ? You could also disconnect the pump and could still get hot water. 

Tampakayaker

I will try the reset, but the pump keeps running even with the control panel line disconnected from the ALDE

ScottG

Grumpy_G said:

@ScottG: Disagree, the Alde pump is 12V only. The system can use a relay-controlled 120/230V pump but Alde doesn't offer any themselves. 

The diagrams for the European market and the US/CAN market are identical (down to the spelling error 'sparkpluggs') except for the voltages changed to 120V. The only thing specific for the US market is the litany of "you can hurt yourself if you're stupid" warnings.. 

Right you are, @Grumpy_G! Upon inspecting the actual unit, I noticed that while there is a cable plugged into the "230V Pump" connection on the motherboard, it doesn't seem to go anywhere. The pump itself is only labelled for DC, and only two wires feed into it. I'm surprised I never picked up on this in almost a decade, but I guess since I never had an issue with the pump it was never on the radar. Thanks for the education.

JanandDave

Hi All,

@ScottG, @Grumpy_G and @Tampakayaker

For totally different reasons this thread caught my eye. Recently I was looking for a signal or power source to add some micro 3-D printer head fans in the back to silently increase some air flow around the rear convectors that would only operate when the heat and pump are on. I found the two sets of leads you are referring to.

Today, while changing the Alde fluid for the first time, I had some time to test these circuits. In our 2016, the 12 volt pump lead (jumper 12) and the 230 volt (jumper 10) both feed into the wire loom and are spliced together, then lead to the 12 volt circulation pump. What surprised me though, is the 12 volt lead is dead or not used. The 230 volt wires (presumably to feed a relay) are the ones live and powering the 12 volt pump. This explains @Tampakayaker's observations.

Thought I'd pass along my observations and hope this helps.

Grumpy_G

Yes I think part of the confusion is that jumper 10 is labeled "230V AC pump connection" in the diagrams but it is actually the control side for a relay. The actual AC power connection for the pump is in the high voltage power section labeled Pump-L and Pump-N. 

BrianZ

Here's the Alde pump(s) wiring diagram from page 12 of the Alde3010 service manual, showing the two 12V jumper sockets, JP12 & JP10, going to a 12V pump & 230V pump relay, respectively..

And 120V motor wiring in US manual..

ScottG

JanandDave said:

...
Today, while changing the Alde fluid for the first time, I had some time to test these circuits. In our 2016, the 12 volt pump lead (jumper 12) and the 230 volt (jumper 10) both feed into the wire loom and are spliced together, then lead to the 12 volt circulation pump. What surprised me though, is the 12 volt lead is dead or not used. The 230 volt wires (presumably to feed a relay) are the ones live and powering the 12 volt pump. This explains @Tampakayaker's observations.
...

@JanandDave, thanks for investigating that. At the time I realized there was only one 12V feed to the pump, I didn't have time to pull back the wire loom to see exactly how those two circuits were wired.

When you discovered that only the "230V" relay line was powered, were you on shore power with the Alde plugged in? Did you test it on battery power only? My assumption is that the motherboard switches between those leads depending upon the availability of AC power. (Of course, splicing them together in the loom means either is going to feed 12V directly to the pump.)

I find it interesting that @Tampkayaker couldn't get the pump to stop unless both leads were disconnected...

Tampakayaker said:

...

I disconnected the 12v pump wire, still running, when I also disconnected the 230v pump wire it stopped.  Hooked the 12v back up with the 230v disconnected and started running again.  It would only stop with the 2 pump lines disconnected

...

JanandDave

@ScottG

At the time I was on shore power and had the pump set to continuous while adding the new Alde transfer fluid.

After some further testing, your assumption seems to be correct.

The 230 volt jumper is only live when on shore power, and the 12 volt jumper is only live when on battery.

FWIW, one of the leads to the pump on our unit has a label which reads "Front Pump".

ScottG

Thanks for checking that, @JanandDave. Now it makes sense why both of those of those jumpers are used even though North American Aldes use a strictly 12V pump. Apparently the Alde's "brain" still switches between them depending upon the availability of AC power, but since they are spliced together before reaching the pump, either circuit will provide direct 12V power to the pump.