Scary incident - and questions

CharlieRN

Let me first apologize if this is not the correct sub-forum for this narrative and question. Edit: Probably should be in "Trailer and Towing." My bad and hopefully a moderator will move if needed.

As I was towing the camper to it's storage lot, a short trip I've taken many times before, our 320S BD came loose from the TV. The location of the incident was just after a traffic light at the intersection of a local, neighborhood road and a busy 4-lane county road. From my direction, there is a very slight incline on the neighborhood street, just before the county road. I waited here for the light to change and was turning left onto the larger road when I heard a bump, then louder thud, and finally the sound of metal being dragged on asphalt. Thankfully, I had cleared the intersection and was in the far right of the undivided, 4-lane county road when everything came to rest, blocking only one lane. Even more thankfully, I was able to crank up the T@b up enough to get the ball under the coupler in short order and get on my way.

I'm guessing that I had not cranked the tongue jack up fully, and it hit the pavement as I was cresting the small hill while turning left at the intersection (the bump I felt). That in turn pushed the tongue up and off the ball, after which the camper dropped (the thud) to the pavement. After reconnecting everything, I returned to the house to examine things before attempting even the short journey to the storage yard. Let me note that the coupler was locked to the ball, with the safety pin in place when this happened. When I returned home after re-hitching everything, I tested the coupler-ball connection. With the camper still hitched to the TV, I used a hydraulic floor jack to lift the tongue to the point that it was in turn lifting the back of the TV. The connection held just fine. After this check, I then towed the camper to storage yard without further incident.

The damage is minimal, and pretty much limited to a slight deformation and scuffing of the base of the tube of the tongue jack. This made it impossible to attach the adapter with the wheel to the tube, but this was fixed by filing the scraped area flush with the tube, along with some help from a large cast-iron C-clamp to re-round the tube bottom.

The more lasting damage is to my psyche: I'm now paranoid about towing, thinking that every little bump and dip will cause a repeat situation. I surely can't be the first to have this kind of thing happen, and wonder what others who've been in the same boat have to say about the experience. I also wonder if my supposition about the root cause (the tongue jack tube not being fully up) is likely correct.

AnOldUR

This is a scenario that runs through my head every time I tow. Can't say that reading this makes me any more confident, but it is a reminder to not be complaisant. Using an Ultimate Jack that's removed before towing prevents what you describe. I still have to remember to use the jack to lift the tongue enough to be certain it's locked every time I hook up. Too often I forget to do this.

JohninMissouri

   Yes, scary.  And I have had the same thoughts myself.  I done a lot of towing of various trailers and confirmed to myself there is no way for that ball to come off.
   

    Unless, your Under Jaw is badly damaged.   Or the latching ratchet is bad. (This diagram show slightly different hitch, but under jaw and ratchet basically the same).   Or your ball is incorrectly sized too small.

   Also, your crisscrossed safety chains seem to be too long, as they failed to catch the unmounted trailer from hitting the ground?    

    Safe travels.

Tabmanic

JohninMissouri said:

   Also, your crisscrossed safety chains seem to be too long, as they failed to catch the unmounted trailer from hitting the ground?    

    Safe travels.

I personally have not had a tow setup where my chains would ever keep my trailer from hitting the ground if it becomes detached.

Tabmanic

I'm not saying this happened to you but it did happened to a friend of mine and I was with him. We were taking his boat and trailer to the repair shop about a 10 mile drive, he had hooked up the trailer before I got there so I just jump in and off we went. As we traveled along we kept hearing this bumping sound but he wouldn't pull over he just kept going, down a long hill, thru 4 stop lights and up another hill. Once we reached the shop he asked me to unhook trailer and he went inside, so when looked at the hitch it wasn't even attach to the ball!, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with own eyes, why it never came off I don't know. So from then on I always look under and get a visual of ball to hitch.

It looked like this...

ckjs

CharlieRN said:

… Let me note that the coupler was locked to the ball, with the safety pin in place when this happened….
 ... The damage is minimal, and pretty much limited to a slight deformation and scuffing of the base of the tube of the tongue jack…

The coupler safety pin was still in place after it decoupled? Ouch.
Are there signs that the coupler was bent, or temporarily flexed, by bouncing and dragged on the pavement?

Some ideas:

- Perhaps the under jaw or its hinge was warped enough to allow the ball to jump free. 
- Maybe the ball socket section of the coupler flexed up as the more rigid front of the A-frame flexed down during the dragging?

CharlieRN

AnOldUR said:

This is a scenario that runs through my head every time I tow. Can't say that reading this makes me any more confident, but it is a reminder to not be complaisant. Using an Ultimate Jack that's removed before towing prevents what you describe. I still have to remember to use the jack to lift the tongue enough to be certain it's locked every time I hook up. Too often I forget to do this.

Same here - now anyway. It took me a while to get comfortable towing but this sends me back to square one in terms of towing anxiety. I will surely be triple-checking that tongue tube is fully retracted before starting, but that won't dial down the paranoia too much.

At least I'm confident knowing that the safety chains work. In my case, I use a set of heavy-duty carabiners (5,000 lb rating) to shorten the chains rather than twisting them. Suspect that, and the very short distance the camper was dragged, limited the damage to being essentially superficial.

Marceline

CharlieRN said:

...

I'm guessing that I had not cranked the tongue jack up fully, and it hit the pavement as I was cresting the small hill while turning left at the intersection (the bump I felt). That in turn pushed the tongue up and off the ball, after which the camper dropped (the thud) to the pavement. After reconnecting everything, I returned to the house to examine things before attempting even the short journey to the storage yard. Let me note that the coupler was locked to the ball, with the safety pin in place when this happened. When I returned home after re-hitching everything, I tested the coupler-ball connection. With the camper still hitched to the TV, I used a hydraulic floor jack to lift the tongue to the point that it was in turn lifting the back of the TV. The connection held just fine. After this check, I then towed the camper to storage yard without further incident.

The damage is minimal, and pretty much limited to a slight deformation and scuffing of the base of the tube of the tongue jack. This made it impossible to attach the adapter with the wheel to the tube, but this was fixed by filing the scraped area flush with the tube, along with some help from a large cast-iron C-clamp to re-round the tube bottom.

The more lasting damage is to my psyche: I'm now paranoid about towing, thinking that every little bump and dip will cause a repeat situation. I surely can't be the first to have this kind of thing happen, and wonder what others who've been in the same boat have to say about the experience. I also wonder if my supposition about the root cause (the tongue jack tube not being fully up) is likely correct.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Probably no one here knows how scary this is better than me. I once dropped my loaded boat trailer on I-880 going through Oakland CA at 60mph. I was very very lucky that it didn't cause a catastrophic accident. It took quite a few minutes to get my heart rate back down to something normal.

In my case I believed that I had locked the coupler onto the ball, but in fact I had closed the coupler ABOVE the ball, so when I hit a bump on the freeway at 60mph the coupler jumped off the ball. It was a 20 year old trailer and the mechanism had a bit of rust inside, so the jaw wasn't dropping properly when I opened the latch. I had no idea until it almost killed me.

If your coupler was still closed with the pin it after losing the trailer, I strongly suspect that you did the same thing. Your jack hitting the ground may have pushed the coupler off the ball, but I believe that your coupler wasn't properly engaged to begin with. Ever since this happened to me, I religiously check to ensure that the coupler is properly engaged. I'm an idiot, so sometimes I check with my hand, but it would be smarter to use a mirror or a phone camera. Some people check by jacking up the tongue of the camper while hitched to the TV, lifting the TV. Take a good look at how the coupler is sitting when you know for sure that it's correctly engaged and you'll see the difference if the coupler hasn't dropped to the bottom.

As @JohninMissouri explains, another explanation is that the coupler itself is damaged. This is why I kind of freak out whenever someone suggests taking a hammer to a coupler latch that won't close. Here's a video with an explanation. If you've ever taken a hammer to the latch or the coupler you probably ought to have that checked.

The last possibility is that you have the wrong size ball on your TV (1 7/8" vs 2"). 

ChrisFix

Marceline said:

CharlieRN said:

In my case I believed that I had locked the coupler onto the ball, but in fact I had closed the coupler ABOVE the ball, so when I hit a bump on the freeway at 60mph the coupler jumped off the ball. It was a 20 year old trailer and the mechanism had a bit of rust inside, so the jaw wasn't dropping properly when I opened the latch. I had no idea until it almost killed me.

If your coupler was still closed with the pin it after losing the trailer, I strongly suspect that you did the same thing.

This is by far the mostly likely thing that happened. It's a great life lesson to check, double check, and then triple check before heading out.

manyman297

I've made it a habit (assuming you're flexible enough) of crouching down and visually verifying that the jaw is indeed engaged under the ball. The nice thing about these hitches is that everything is visible and it's a pretty simple setup. Granted nothing is guaranteed but I believe making sure that jaw is under the ball is key. 

bergger

I do the same as @manyman297 and visually check. My wife will also check my work and if she hooks up I’ll check hers. We also always remove the dolly wheel from the jack and crank I all the way up. 

BrianZ

As @Marceline suggested, a mirror or cell phone would let you check the hitch easily.

Denny16

Another wat to check that the ball is properly locked into the hitch, is to crank up the trailer (especially the TaB with its Anderson hitch) and see if the ball,pops out.  If the ball is properly engaged in the hitch, it will lift the tow vehicle and become difficult to crank up, and the ball stays put!  This is what I do every time I hitch up.

Cheers

Horigan

I'm seeing another benefit of having a weight distribution hitch.  I go through the ball pull up process every time I hook up the WDH bars.

Mickerly

Been there once. We set the trailer coupler on the ball and let is slide over. This makes sure the ball is fully forward and misses the "tongue", "claw," etc. on the way into the socket. If there is any resistance in the handle latching, it isn't right, start over. Then, my wife and I both check before moving.
NuCamp bolts the chains to the trailer. Next time you hook up, connect the chains. Remove the bolts and adjust the chain length with a couple inches of slack while straight. Don't cut off the extra. I used safety wire to tie the spare links together.

Binghi

Why not cut off the extra links? I thought about leaving the extra links but they got in the way too much. Also important to leave enough slack to cross the chains.

elbolillo

Tabmanic said:

JohninMissouri said:

   Also, your crisscrossed safety chains seem to be too long, as they failed to catch the unmounted trailer from hitting the ground?    

    Safe travels.

I personally have not had a tow setup where my chains would ever keep my trailer from hitting the ground if it becomes detached.

Then you need to make an adjustment to the chains so that they are not as long. This is an oversight that can be easily fixed.

Mickerly

Leaving the extra links lets you change tow vehicles and resize the chains. If you cut of the extra, you may need to buy new chains in the future.

mona

The easiest and an acceptable way to shorten chains is to cross and feed through the chain hook up holes, then hook the chains back on themselves. 

Jeannie 

AnOldUR

mona said: The easiest and an acceptable way to shorten chains is to cross and feed through the chain hook up holes, then hook the chains back on themselves.

That may be a solution for some, but the s-hooks on the end of the chains will not fit through the holes in either of the two tow vehicles that we've used. Regardless, I'm looking for testing done using this method. My first thought would be that it would reduce the load capacity of the chain. I'm not sure how the chain would hold up to the square edges of the hole.

Rodent77

You want to make sure your pin to the electric brakes will get pulled out and engage the electric brakes if the trailer ever disengaged from tow vehicle. That wont happen if your tow chains are too short. 

AnOldUR

Rodent77 said:

You want to make sure your pin to the electric brakes will get pulled out and engage the electric brakes if the trailer ever disengaged from tow vehicle. That wont happen if your tow chains are too short. 

I disagree with this. If your coupler separates from the ball, you still have the chains to keep the trailer behind you and your trailer brake will still work for a good chance of a safely stopping. But if the trailer brakes were to lock up due to the pin being pulled while still attached by the chains your chances of maintaining control is greatly reduced. In my opinion the emergency braking system should not engage unless there's been a complete (ball, chains and electric) separation of the trailer from the tow vehicle. I believe the sole reason is to prevent a runaway trailer from causing collateral damage.

Rodent77

Ok so who' s the expert/knowledgeable person on this subject as Im hearing different opinions....I read this on another forum "You got a least a ton, and maybe up to 3-4 tons hanging by two chains designed to pull not push so unless you keep tension on the chains via the trailer brakes you've lost all control of where that trailer is going to go. The brake controller acts with the TV's brakes and doesn't put the tension needed on the chains to keep the trailer straight and behind the TV.

We've had 3 breakaways make the news here in upstate NY this week and all three destroyed the trailers and one the TV as well. I'll bet the farm all three of them had the breakaways set up like you want it or else didn't even have one. According to police reports none of the three disconnected from the safety chains. So much for bringing the trailer to a safe stop using the brake controller."

bergger

I am not an expert on this but in my opinion the chains are not there to necessarily save the trailer or the tow vehicle but to attempt to prevent the trailer from becoming a lethal missile against other vehicles/people on the road.  If the trailer gets wrecked or your vehicle is damaged or wrecked that's much better than wrecking another vehicle or killing someone else.  

Marceline

Rodent77 said:

Ok so who' s the expert/knowledgeable person on this subject as Im hearing different opinions....I read this on another forum "You got a least a ton, and maybe up to 3-4 tons hanging by two chains designed to pull not push so unless you keep tension on the chains via the trailer brakes you've lost all control of where that trailer is going to go. The brake controller acts with the TV's brakes and doesn't put the tension needed on the chains to keep the trailer straight and behind the TV.

We've had 3 breakaways make the news here in upstate NY this week and all three destroyed the trailers and one the TV as well. I'll bet the farm all three of them had the breakaways set up like you want it or else didn't even have one. According to police reports none of the three disconnected from the safety chains. So much for bringing the trailer to a safe stop using the brake controller."

If the trailer is still connected via the chains, and therefore the power is still connected to the TV, the brake controller will operate the trailer brakes. This is an argument for ensuring that your power cord is long enough that it doesn't pull out of your TV if the trailer is still attached by the chains. 

The breakaway cable is designed to bring your trailer to an immediate halt as soon as the pin is pulled. This should happen if the trailer is completely separated from the TV. This is to prevent your trailer from becoming an uncontrolled missile on the road, as someone else pointed out. 

I'm not an "expert" but I'm probably one of the few people here who has actually dropped a loaded trailer at 60mph (see my post above), and I think that it would have made the situation much worse if an emergency breakaway pin had activated brakes while the trailer was dragging by the chains. I was on an upslope and the chains were taut, so I took my foot off the gas, allowing TV & trailer to gradually slow down, and I gently guided the entire mess to the shoulder. I never braked at all. If you're on a downslope, I'd imagine that you'd want to use the brake controller to manually apply the trailer brakes to gradually slow it down. The last thing that you want is a sudden, uncontrolled change in speed or direction for the trailer as long as they are still connected, which is what pulling the emergency pin would cause.

E-trailer agrees with me.

Rodent77

Thanks for the info....

Mickerly

DOT FMCSA Part 393.

Section 393.70(d) requires that every full trailer must be coupled to the frame, or an extension of the frame, of the motor vehicle which tows it with one or more safety devices to prevent the towed vehicle from breaking loose in the event the tow-bar fails or becomes disconnected. The safety device must be connected to the towed and towing vehicles and to the tow-bar in a manner which prevents the tow-bar from dropping to the ground in the event it fails or becomes disconnected.

It goes on to explain the reason is to prevent the trailer from asperating and causing additional damage to other cars and property.

ScottG

A few years ago, this document was frequently invoked in forum discussions as the go-to reference in towing best practices. It includes a section on emergency breakaway brakes, and offers both of the arguments raised above regarding when the emergency brakes should engage. Both arguments were sufficiently compelling enough that the authors declined to take a position one way or the other, offering only this as a conclusion:

"This difference of opinion means that there is no one-size-fits-all answer that will apply to everyone and every situation. These are choices that you must make for yourself."

The outcome of any trailer separation is going to be subject to multiple variables. In some cases, it may be advantageous to have the trailer brakes lock up even if the trailer is still attached by the chains. In others (@Marceline's experience is an excellent example) it might be better to retain driver control over the trailer brakes. Until somebody does a comprehensive study on those variables to determine if one approach results in a better outcome in a significant majority of cases, we will continue to disagree on this subject. 

Mickerly

In chasing the DOT reference, I discovered the DOT rules and guidance apply to commercial operators. Privately owned equipment is exempted for the DOT rules. Each state is responsible for creating their own rules for privately owned recreational trailers. In looking at several states, there are no clear rules for boats or RVs concerning chains or brakes. Typically they say something like, "if brakes are installed, an automatically activated braking systems is required in case of separation from the tow vehicle." Most have a maximum weight before brakes are required. A number of states require only one chain. Clear regulatory guidance on recreational trailer safety systems is illusive and when found, they are local only.

pthomas745

@manyman297 In your comment above, you say "visually verifying that the jaw is indeed engaged under the ball."  Which, to me, seems a much better way to confirm that the hitch is correct.  Most of the suggestions about "checking" a proper connection involves aerobics and dead lifts of the trailer and hitch to see if they move. 

Looking at the sketches above in the thread, which place can  you see?  The "front" of the ball socket?  The back of the socket where the "underjaw" is marked? 

manyman297

@pthomas745 I’m a young-ish 44 so I can still squat low enough to crane my head under the hitch to visually see that the ball is tucked under the sliding plate (whatever the name of that part is). Even a mirror would work I think. To me this is the best way to verify engagement but it does involve some stretching.