Do you really need an Inverter in your 320?

SLJ

My thoughts on an inverter in the 320 after two years of boondocking.
There's a lot of set up and cost to running an inverter. Inverters are not efficient and there is loss converting 12 volts to 120 volts AC.  Most can't run the air conditioner for very long anyway especially when you're limited on battery space like a 320. We chose to ditch the lead acid batteries, switch to lithium, and set up everything we use in our 320 to run on 12 volts for boondocking. Saves you a lot of battery power never needing an inverter when not plugged in at a campground. Two seasons on lithium batteries and have not needed an inverter. If you camp in the southwest and need air conditioning it's a little different but good luck with the lack of battery space in a 320. A 400 has a little more room. We use the fan to draw in cooler air after the sun goes down if needed.

All the solar panels in the world installed on the roof won't help if you park in the shade. We camp mostly in the East/Northeast so there's plenty of shade and one good 200 watt portable solar panel out in the sun gives us enough power to keep the two 100AH batteries charged when camped. To get the most out of a portable solar panel make sure the converter is near the batteries and not out on the panels. Our 105 watt panel on the roof and the tow vehicle charge fine when towing. That's about all I use the roof panel for. Sure some need things like a CPAP machine but you can get them that run on 12 volts also.

Ten days straight of rain and cloud cover last year in our 320 using the DC fridge, furnace, lights, pump, fans, TV, Blue-Ray, stereo, etc. our batteries never got below 45%. If we go out for a three/four day weekend we don't even need to worry about charging them as there is plenty of DC power for everything.
Just ask yourself...
Do I really need 110 volt AC power and is the extra cost of a large inverter and effort really necessary for camping?
Some will disagree but you need to make your own decision depending on your use ands style of camping.

Slackers

Agree. We have just one 100 AH Lithium battery and no roof-top solar, but can easily camp 4 consecutive days without recharge (in Ohio, Indiana). We use our fridge as a cooler in this circumstance. We're headed on a couple month adventure where our minimal setup will be tested. I'm confident our 200 watts portable solar, dual-fuel generator, and occasional electrical hookup will keep the battery topped off. We may have to endure a sticky night of sleep or more. 

RTWCTS

Firstly, I understand everyone's vision of the perfect setup can vary.
We miss the 12V television and 12V outlet near the bed from our old 320. CPAP machines are mostly 12V powered with a 'brick' (transformer) to hook up to 120V power at home (you need to buy the 12V power cord). When dry camping in our 400 we only really use the inverter if we want to watch some television.

We didn't buy into the whole run your AC off an inverter thing. I understand that it works for a few hours, but how do you recharge your batteries? We have 400W of portable solar to add to our rooftop so can input about 30Amps to the system in full sun. Assuming 10 hours of full sun in a day, the math just doesn't seem to work if you're trying to recharge the 400Amps of the lithium upgrade package in a 400 (for example). Along with the fridge, etc. how much portable solar do you need to carry to pull this off for more than a day? When it is going to be really hot, we just make reservations somewhere that has shore power or suck it up and sit outside until it cools off in the evening.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi,

I'm not sure I follow the logic/question of "is it really necessary for camping".

That could be the same question for just about every upgrade we all tackle...inverter or not. Every upgrade  takes some effort and cost, some more..some less.  We all make that decision on what is important to each of us, our family and how we want to experience the life of camping/traveling in our TAB.  This and other forums are littered with various upgrades and modifications that are personal to each of us.  Many people buy their TAB not just for camping but to travel to places.  

Whether one needs 110V while boonedocking, certainly is not necessary (unless for medical reasons) but if it helps with the enjoyment of the experience..why not.  

elbolillo

@SLJ Very well thought out post. We had an inverter in our '21 Tab 320 and in our '23 Tab 400 we also have an inverter. As you mentioned, a lot depends on your use and style of camping.

We put on about 15,000 miles on our '21 Tab 320 in a little over a year and have 18,000+ miles on our '23 Tab 400. Most of our trips have been 2-4 weeks, and during our trips, we work remotely. So, having an inverter has been essential for running our Starlink. There is a way to rewire the Starlink to work directly from 12v, but I haven't ventured down that route yet.

Along with the Starlink, we have a small espresso machine that we use. Granted, this isn't an absolute necessity. We also love our French press coffee, which wouldn't require the use of the inverter.

With our rooftop solar and a 220w suitcase panel, we can keep the batteries topped off quite nicely. We no longer lug a generator and gas can along on our trips either.

We never use the air conditioner. Although in a pinch, we could.

So, in a nutshell, for many use cases, an inverter is certainly not an absolute necessity. And they add to the complexity of the system. Many could get by without an inverter. For us, it is a necessity.

AnOldUR

SLJ said:
Just ask yourself...
Do I really need 110 volt AC power and is the extra cost of a large inverter and effort really necessary for camping?
Some will disagree but you need to make your own decision depending on your use ands style of camping.

I asked myself this last year and the answer was no, we really didn't need it. But then the other side of me asked, why not? For around $400 (including wire and hardware) I put in a Renogy 2000W inverter. We rarely use it, but it has come in handy. Being retired, it was a fun project, but not a necessity.

Slackers

And for that matter how many us n-e-e-d such a nice trailer? We don't in our household, but we're sure glad we have it!

pthomas745

I've never understood the anti-inverter bias that comes up in the trailer groups when they are mentioned. Yes, "inefficient", yes, "there are better ways", etc.  Even in the air conditioner use: if an owner has planned it out properly, and makes it work, why not? 

A Facebook post a week or so ago involved an owner whose spouse plugged in a hair dryer into their 400 and somehow it didn't work.  The group was completely outraged about "using a HAIR DRYER" while camping.

The owner has a Black Canyon model, 400 amp hours of battery, and the Victron Multiplus 3000 watt inverter.  The problem turned out to be the size of the hair dryer overwhelmed the GFCI outlet.  (The hair dryer was 1875 watts, obviously too big!)  Unless the spouse had hair like Rapunzel, a couple of minutes with a reasonably sized dryer would barely make a dent in 400 amp hours of battery. 

Even when I had the stock 80 amp hour battery, I used small inverters in the 12V ports.  It is the only way to run a reasonable laptop for photo purposes.  I was careful with the battery use, and measured the various tools I used with a Kill-a-Watt device.  As long as the sun came out the next day, I knew that I could recharge with my portable solar.  Getting a shunt made monitoring the battery use even easier.  I even realized I could run an Insta Pot connected directly to the battery with a larger inverter.  I just opened the battery box, connected the inverter, and cooked away.  (A 700 watt Insta pot, btw.) And, yes, I've even used a small hair dryer that way.

With a 100 amp hour lithium, I no longer have any qualms at all about using my devices this way.  And, as long as an owner knows the limitations of the devices in the trailer: why not use that Keurig coffeemaker?  It might not be the way I would camp, but....why not?

gulfarea

I wonder how a 12 volt air conditioner would work? They do make them but draw a LOT of amps! That way no inverter needed. As humans we NEED projects  Art

Mickerly

My parents bought a class A with 12v AC shortly after I left home. It ate batteries like there was no tomorrow. In the '80s, battery technology was very poor. The issue appears to be the torque to operate the compressor. Most campgrounds have hookups these days. The need for 12v AC is probably not enough to pay for good R&D and production. Technology for batteries and compressors has come a long way. Maybe it's time. 

Grumpy_G

I'm with @pthomas745, I have a small inverter that can charge my laptop but I don't need AC, a coffee maker or a hair dryer (despite having a full head of hair at 60+ ) 

It comes down to how many creature comforts do you need when camping. I was a tent dweller until 6-7 years ago and just bought a new tent and cot for some overlanding style outings so I can make due with limited resources. YMMV though. 

tungsten

pthomas745 said:It might not be the way I would camp, but....why not?

Thank you for that elegant summation.  You get groups of enthusiasts together in any community, and it seems to always devolve into "No True Scotsman...".  Get people out there camping, period.  If they're having fun, good for them.  This world could really use more people having fun.

ScottG

I heartily agree, @pthomas745 and @tungsten, with one caveat...

If you are camping next to me and the alternative is running your generator, then YES, you need an inverter!  ;-)

RTWCTS

The problem with all this in a 400 is that you aren't going to run the 1200W inverter all night for a CPAP and keep the fridge running 24 hours a day on the stock 100AH battery.
Also, as I previously stated, it isn't probable to recharge the 400AH setup if you deplete it running the AC without the aid of shore power or a generator.
The concepts don't match reality unless you alter the system. Sometimes I miss being young and sleeping in a tent... sometimes.

Maxcamp

Some folks require temporary 120v power for medical and palliative care, without having to run something all night.
Added a 2000w inverter after several seasons of use.

Shadrax

We have enjoyed keeping things simple and relatively inexpensive using a 100 AH AGM, 100 Watt mobile solar panel with MPPT charge controller, a modern technology battery charger, a small sine wave inverter which is rarely used, and propane.  If the weather is hot we camp where there is shore power, so can also use more electricity demanding appliances.  On a 3 month 12,000 mile trip to the arctic circle we were still happy so have never been motivated to add more power reserve or technology.  We have found a small “sailboat style” electrically powered cooler/freezer superior to the  320 Tab trailer’s integrated unit.