Battery was way low

mickietucs

When I left Phoenix we pushed the battery cut off switch to the off position and I drove to Tucson and parked my trailer in the storage facility. Thinking it'd be okay for a bit with no phantom draws my intention was to put a solar trickle charger on soon after that. Since today is sunny I hooked that all up and noticed there was no power so I checked the fuse and it had blown and when I got that changed the battery showed only - 11.99. Not good. it's charging but I wonder if the entire drive home the fuse was already blown. If the cut off switch was in the off position, why was my battery so low? Lastly, if I unhook the trickle charger when I leave soon (right now only up to 12.07) switch off the cutoff will I again be down into the bad percentage range by tomorrow? Im now nervous to leave the lot!

jkjenn

I believe your battery charge looses juice by just sitting. How long did it sit before you charged? A few days, a month? You might want to take it out and take it to AutoZone to have them test it for you.

mickietucs

jkjenn said:

I believe your battery charge looses juice by just sitting. How long did it sit before you charged? A few days, a month? You might want to take it out and take it to AutoZone to have them test it for you.

The dealer put in a brand new (I hope) Group 29 when I picked it up on Aug 20. It has been just 2 weeks...I thought it wouldn't be that low and since using the cut-off there should be no phantom draw. I'd have to get someone to take it out for me due to the weight but if it is bad the dealer better cough up another one! I was just under the assumption that 2 weeks with no drain would have kept it at least at a higher level. Maybe tomorrow I'll hook up to my truck and run it for a bit - would that be a good thing...or just leave it on the trickle charger?  I left it on as the storage lot owners said it'd be fine (no one will mess with it). Just hope it doesn't rain this evening.

Verna

I just put the Battery Tender Jr back on my battery after having the fuse out for 3 weeks. My battery was at 12.6 and had been fully charged when I removed the fuse. (The cord going to the T@B was in the way while I had the new kitchen cabinets, etc. in the garage ready for the remodel.). So, even with nothing connected to the battery, the battery will discharge slowly by itself. 

I agree with Jenn to have someone check your battery. While one discharge won't totally ruin your battery, it's not a good idea to discharge it below the 50% mark frequently.  

If it were me, I would stick around, or at least leave the trickle charger on, go run some errands and see if you can't get the voltage up higher today, if you can't get somewhere to have the battery tested.  

bgualtieri

Michelle -- we don't put any tender on or trickle charger or anything. We also don't have a cut off switch. We've gone camping several times a month since May and just hook her up to the 7-way and go, the plug into shore power at camp. It has worked so far. I have assumed the only time battery power is an issue is when boondocking without electric hook up. We do store her in PHX heat - triple digits as you know, consistently since we got her. This may be short sighted, but it has worked so far.

mickietucs

I'll check it first thing tomorrow - I left the trickle on it. I know it takes a long time on a trickle charger but tomorrow's numbers will determine if I'll somehow get it to Auto Zone to test it. Also there's a 20 amp fuse in it and Beth and others said I should put in a 30 amp - correct?

Verna

mickietucs said:

I'll check it first thing tomorrow - I left the trickle on it. I know it takes a long time on a trickle charger but tomorrow's numbers will determine if I'll somehow get it to Auto Zone to test it. Also there's a 20 amp fuse in it and Beth and others said I should put in a 30 amp - correct?

Correct, it should be a 30 amp fuse on the battery.  When I remove it, I put it in a small ziplock bag and put it on top of the middle of the battery so I know where it is and know it shouldn't move.

mickietucs

Verna said:

mickietucs said:

I'll check it first thing tomorrow - I left the trickle on it. I know it takes a long time on a trickle charger but tomorrow's numbers will determine if I'll somehow get it to Auto Zone to test it. Also there's a 20 amp fuse in it and Beth and others said I should put in a 30 amp - correct?

Correct, it should be a 30 amp fuse on the battery.  When I remove it, I put it in a small ziplock bag and put it on top of the middle of the battery so I know where it is and know it shouldn't move.

Thanks Verna - why the heck do the dealers put in a 20 amp? Jeez!  Also, since this is in a storage lot and I no access to 110 (to say plug in a typical Battery Tender) is there any other means other than solar to charge (haven't swung for a generator yet)? Right now I only have a 6 amp solar trickle charger. A Battery Tender has to be plugged into 110 - yes?

One other question - While on the trickle charger, will the battery will still charge even if I turn the cut-off switch to off (since that means there's no power just going to the T@B - correct)? 

I so appreciate this forum - when I first saw there was no power inside I immediately thought blown battery fuse. That wouldn't have crossed my mind if I hadn't been following everyone's posts!

Nomad

Yes, the traditional battery charger/tender has to be plugged in to 110.
Typically, the battery tender is clipped directly to the battery terminals so yes, it would charge the battery no matter the position of the cutoff switch. But if the switch was on, the T@B would be draining a certain amount from what the tender was putting in.

mickietucs

PXLated said:

Yes, the traditional battery charger/tender has to be plugged in to 110.
Typically, the battery tender is clipped directly to the battery terminals so yes, it would charge the battery no matter the position of the cutoff switch. But if the switch was on, the T@B would be draining a certain amount from what the tender was putting in.

Good to know that battery is charging (I purposely closed the cutoff switch thinking that would be better as there'd be no draw). They now make a Battery Tender Solar charger which looked nice - and thinking the 15 watt would do a better job than the 6w I have on there now. Hoping I see a higher reading tomorrow. Thanks!

Verna

Michelle, check to make sure the battery cut off switch is indeed wired correctly.  If it is "off" there should be no power to anything 12V (lights, sound system, TV).  If it is "on" the lights, sound system, TV should work.  If reversed, that would be an explanation of why the battery was drained.

As far as the 20 amp fuse, it could be human error or lack of knowledge.  Contact the dealer in a learning manner and suggest they may have put the 20 amp fuse at the battery in error, instead of the 30 amp fuse.  You may need the dealer further down the road and you don't want to alienate them.  

mickietucs

Hi Verna - yes, I'm positive there had been no power to the T@B. I checked that when I parked it (testing it with trying to turn on a light and looking at the voltage meter plugged into the 12v receptacle. 

You have a point about the dealer but after my "cushion fiasco" (long story) I'm hoping it's not a bad battery as that will not help my confidence - but I'm trying to stay positive.

ChanW

Michelle,

You might want to check the voltage right at the battery terminals to get an accurate idea of what's in the battery, then you won't have any voltage drop to contend with in your figuring.

The 6A or 15A solar charger is probably rated at full sun with a voltage/current limiter of some kind. A trickle charge usually only puts out @ 2A max, and if your solar charger is limited to that 2A output, and only during the day when the sun is good, it could take a few sunny days to restore a discharged battery. A trickle charger is really intended to simply maintain an already fully charged battery.

It might be smart to take it out as Jenn suggested, to get a full charge with a 120V charger, and then keep the trickle charger on it any time it sits for a few weeks.

Playc

Hi ChanW -
1.  Is the best solution to keep battery healthy while not in use and sitting for few weeks is to plug in AC 110 at all times?
2.  The battery won't get a chance to discharge if it is on AC 110, then connect to Tow, then campground 30amp;  Is it good for battery being charged to full all the time?

TIA

mickietucs

ChanW said:

Michelle,

You might want to check the voltage right at the battery terminals to get an accurate idea of what's in the battery, then you won't have any voltage drop to contend with in your figuring.

The 6A or 15A solar charger is probably rated at full sun with a voltage/current limiter of some kind. A trickle charge usually only puts out @ 2A max, and if your solar charger is limited to that 2A output, and only during the day when the sun is good, it could take a few sunny days to restore a discharged battery. A trickle charger is really intended to simply maintain an already fully charged battery.

It might be smart to take it out as Jenn suggested, to get a full charge with a 120V charger, and then keep the trickle charger on it any time it sits for a few weeks.

ChanW - I will do what you suggested (I had purchased a voltage meter and this will be the first time using it - hope I get it right!).  Yea, I have to remember that wimpy trickle charger I have is really is only that - a trickle to an already full battery. Luckily I'm in Tucson and the monsoons aren't too prevalent right now so we're back to having full sun - hoping all day yesterday and all day today may help. But if need be, I'll get someone to help me haul it out of the box and get it somewhere to provide a good charge. Where does one go to get a charge with a 120v charger (Auto Zone)?  Can I buy that type of charger (are they expensive)? 

mickietucs

Here's the multimeter I have - now I'm confused as to which setting to use. Should it be the one at the top right that's in red and says DCV?  Or would the 12v Load test side work? And at the bottom where the probes are plugged in do I use the two on the right (red/positive and black/negative) and ignore the one on the far left which says DC10A? I think so as the instructions say it's for measuring high DC current up to 10 amps only.

jkjenn

Michele, I have the same one. The black probe goes into the black hole. The red probe into the right side red hole. Turn the dial to the left to 12v. Place the re probe on the positive battery terminal and the black probe on the negative terminal.

mickietucs

jkjenn said:

Michele, I have the same one. The black probe goes into the black hole. The red probe into the right side red hole. Turn the dial to the left to 12v. Place the re probe on the positive battery terminal and the black probe on the negative terminal.

Thanks Jenn - So in essence I'm doing the battery load test. One Youtube video from some rv place the guy turned the dial to the first setting on the right (DCV) so that confused me. The DCV setting has the two lines above the V which I think measure the alternating and direct current. Do you know why he used that setting (he was using the same multimeter that we have) as opposed to the load test?

jkjenn

I have no idea why he did that. Here is another video https://youtu.be/GwyAd2DEkUA

mickietucs

Thank you Jenn ----

ChanW

Michelle, AutoZone might charge it, I don't know, but I would recommend you take it to a mechanic that you trust. (My experience with parts guys is, 90% of the time that's what they are, parts guys, and not mechanics. They might sound like they know about fixing stuff, but they're still parts guys.)

Anyway, a good mechanic will know how to charge your deep cycle battery, and check the fluid and top it off with distilled water if needed, etc. It shouldn't cost much more than $10 or $15, I would think, if he/she charges you anything.

Or, you could buy a good charger (Battery Tender has a good reputation, though I'm sure there are other good ones), and charge it yourself at home, and check the fluid levels, and top it off. I bet there are videos on YouTube that would guide you through the proper care and feeding of an RV battery better than I could here, with only words.

The multimeter... Yes, the upper right position that says DCV is for checking DC volts. Be sure to switch it to that position before connecting the leads to your battery. Yes, the two right hand probe connections are the right ones for DCV. Offhand, I dunno what those Load Test selections are for...

I recommend you find a good introduction to digital multimeters, if the manual that came with it is lacking. There's a lot you can do with it.

HTH!

ChanW

Playc, yes, with automotive type, so called 'flooded', batteries it doesn't hurt to keep them charged. Leaving them plugged in to a good battery maintainer is best. The Tab's converter/charger is a good one for maintaining your battery.

Note that some cheaper 'trickle' chargers aren't good because they don't maintain the battery, they simply continually charge it, which can damage it by overcharging. 

Look at Battery Tender's technical info page. It's pretty informative.

Playc said:

Hi ChanW -
1.  Is the best solution to keep battery healthy while not in use and sitting for few weeks is to plug in AC 110 at all times?
2.  The battery won't get a chance to discharge if it is on AC 110, then connect to Tow, then campground 30amp;  Is it good for battery being charged to full all the time?

TIA

mickietucs

Thanks Chan -- I do know a good local mechanic. If I don't get a Battery Tender today, I'll call him tomorrow (if I see the battery isn't much better later today - good idea - thanks!).

mickietucs

Update --- multimeter reading showed it at 12.13-12.14 (inside voltage meter that's plugged into the dc receptacle showed 12.08 - not sure why the difference). Luckily there is an RV place immediately next door to the storage lot so I decided to talk with them since they're so close. They said they would pull the battery for me and charge it to bring it back up. Then I'll reconnect the trickle to keep it maintained.

Verna

mickietucs said:

Update --- multimeter reading showed it at 12.13-12.14 (inside voltage meter that's plugged into the dc receptacle showed 12.08 - not sure why the difference). Luckily there is an RV place immediately next door to the storage lot so I decided to talk with them since they're so close. They said they would pull the battery for me and charge it to bring it back up. Then I'll reconnect the trickle to keep it maintained.

No two devices will of different manufacturers will have the same reading, Michele.  .04 is not that much off.  It just matters that your trickle charger has brought it up a bit.  Good that there is a close RV place--keep a good relationship with them, they don't mind lifting heavy batteries

mickietucs

Verna said:

mickietucs said:

Update --- multimeter reading showed it at 12.13-12.14 (inside voltage meter that's plugged into the dc receptacle showed 12.08 - not sure why the difference). Luckily there is an RV place immediately next door to the storage lot so I decided to talk with them since they're so close. They said they would pull the battery for me and charge it to bring it back up. Then I'll reconnect the trickle to keep it maintained.

No two devices will of different manufacturers will have the same reading, Michele.  .04 is not that much off.  It just matters that your trickle charger has brought it up a bit.  Good that there is a close RV place--keep a good relationship with them, they don't mind lifting heavy batteries

Verna - I actually did a little test to see if I could lift it - I was able to, but not sure I'd be able to lift it all the way up and over the cover (I know I'd have to stand on something as I'm really short).  On another note, I wonder if I need to get a hydrometer and use that if I have them take it to be charged. I just read that the multimeter doesn't really give the true state of a battery. Hmmmm....

ChanW

Michele, you shouldn't need a hydrometer. Yikes! You're getting really techy now! The shop could test it with one if necessary, but they'd probably just see how well it held a charge. ie: charge it up fully, then let it sit for 12-24 hours and see what the voltage is.

You're right about it being the best way to tell the condition of your battery, but really only necessary if you're having trouble with your battery. Yours is a new battery, so its ability to hold a charge will be a good enough indicator of whether it has a problem or not. You could detect weak cells in an older battery with a hydrometer however, which would let you know that you should think about replacing it soon. 

I just watch for my battery to stop keeping a charge like it should (with nothing connected, of course).

Verna

ChanW said:

Michele, you shouldn't need a hydrometer. Yikes! You're getting really techy now! The shop could test it with one if necessary, but they'd probably just see how well it held a charge. ie: charge it up fully, then let it sit for 12-24 hours and see what the voltage is.

You're right about it being the best way to tell the condition of your battery, but really only necessary if you're having trouble with your battery. Yours is a new battery, so its ability to hold a charge will be a good enough indicator of whether it has a problem or not. You could detect weak cells in an older battery with a hydrometer however, which would let you know that you should think about replacing it soon. 

I just watch for my battery to stop keeping a charge like it should (with nothing connected, of course).

I agree.  You don't need to play telecommunications technician for the phone company!  I don't miss that metallic taste in my mouth when I was using the hydrometer--YUCK!

Simple maintenance is what we do for our T@B's.  Check the water level and keep it to the correct height. Watch your voltages to keep track of any potential problems. 

I'm 5' 3 1/2" so I need a step stool for many things.  I have one that stays in the truck bed.  It's amazing if you ask for help (like the RV company next door to your storage lot), you normally get some help.

Oh yeah, have fun camping!

mickietucs

Oh good. Didn't REALLY want to go the hydrometer route. Will see how it holds a charge after it's up to full percentage. Was talking with Wanderoo (Beth) and she thought perhaps even if it's a new battery it may not have had a full charge when they put it in (maybe sitting on a shelf for a while).  

Verna- I'm 5'1" (so T@b space works well for me but does create other challenges! I have a step stool also for my truck. And another ladder). Nice to have help from time to time. Me in grocery store eying something on top shelf when I spot a taller person "excuse me, may I borrow your height?"-ha!

Lisa33

I was just about to suggest exactly what Beth said.  Just because the battery was new, it still may not have been fully charged.  If the fuse was blown, your vehicle wouldn't have been charging it on the way home, either.   Hope it all works out!

irvingj

After years of dealing with batteries that gradually lose their charge, I'm now sold on newer AGM batteries. They can sit for months (really!) and still have a "full" charge, or at least 12.6V when measured at the battery.

Three years ago I bought an Optima battery for our T@B, and it's still working great. I keep it at home during the winter, but rarely feel the need to hit it with a charger. On older batteries, I'd have to hit them once a month during storage with a low-amp charger to bring them up to snuff.

Yes, the Optima was expensive, but knowing it can hold its own is worth it, IMO. I had it hooked up to the T@B last week while doing some work on the camper, running the fan for the whole day -- in addition, don't forget, the CO2/CO detector, which on my T@B, is operational any time the battery's connected. Checked the battery the next day, and it was still 12.59, or pretty much full.

Did the same for my boat and vintage airplane; AGM batteries are simply better technology!

To get an idea of a battery's charge state, you can just measure the voltage at the battery terminals. Here's a link to a charge table: http://lestoilesroses.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/truck-battery-buying-guide.gif