Another Weird Battery Thingy

RZRBUG

On my last stop on the way home yesterday, I was approached by a Zombie (why is it always when you're in the biggest rush?).  When I opened the door, I noticed the LP detector was beeping (LP had been shut off, so sure that was not the problem).  I looked at the battery meter plugged into the 12V socket and saw that it was registering low.  I had the 7-pin plugged in and had been driving that way for HOURS.

When the Zombies left, I started the truck and the meter immediately shot up to over 13V.  I turned everything off I could, including the fridge, and turned the battery cutoff switch to off and drove the three more hours home.  When I stopped and shut off the truck motor, the beeping started again.  Being too tired to mess with it, I shut everything down and went to bed.

This morning, without connecting the 7-pin and with the cutoff switch still off, I checked the voltage again and got a reading of 12.7V, fully charged.  Anyone got any ideas?

source3

Bad ground wire somewhere?  Strange electrical issues usually point to a bad ground.

Michigan_Mike

Check the fluid in your battery and add distilled water to any low cells.  If it has a test button on it try holding that in for a while, let it off, push it back in and hold it down a while and let off and hopefully the beeping will stop.  

And are you sure Booger didn't fart in your trailer???  

RZRBUG

Funny, Mike, although that could certainly be a possibility.  I now have the T@B parked back under its shed with the solar maintenance charger hooked to it.  So far, I have not been able to replicate the problem.  I will check the fluids tomorrow, although I did that before my first trip this spring.

I had the fridge running as well as the ARB, but that should not be the problem.  I have done so before.

I will do some checking later in the week.  If I do not find a loose connection or low fluids, then I suspect it might be the Norcold as it seems to run a lot.  I do need to check the 7-pin wiring as the harness is a little loose on the bumper and may have loosened a wire/ground as source3 suggested.  BTW, the Norcold loses temperature at more than twice the rate of the ARB.  Probably the reason it runs so much.

Thanks for the suggestions.

source3

RZRBUG said:

 the Norcold loses temperature at more than twice the rate of the ARB.  Probably the reason it runs so much.

Have you installed the secondary fan in the side vent?  The fridge will run a lot less once installed.  The pilot light heats the cabinet more than I thought!

RZRBUG

Andrew, sorry I wasn't more specific.  I have the two-way refrigerator so the heat buildup is not a problem--at least not that I'm aware of.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I suppose I do need to check the gaskets/seals to make sure I don't have an air leak somewhere.

pcaddy

My battery keeps blowing the 30 Amp fuse -- had it back to the dealer and they fixed exposed wire .. I am still blowing the 30 amp fuse..any suggestions as to why?  I am taking back to dealer next week but wonder if anyone can help with ideas.  Tnks.

RZRBUG

Michigan_Mike said:

Check the fluid in your battery and add distilled water to any low cells....

A visual inspection of the cells appeared to show they didn't need water.  I decided, however, to add some anyway.  To my surprise, each cell held an additional one to two ounces of distilled water.  I have an Interstate battery and the design is deceptive.  Maybe others should try adding distilled water even if it appears it may not need it.

I currently have the trailer hooked to the TV through the 7-pin and am giving it a good charge.  Which brings up another point.  If you plug a voltage meter into the cigarette plug in the trailer while it is connected to the 7-pin plug, it will measure the voltage being sent TO the battery, not the actual charge state of the battery.  I would assume that is also true if you are hooked to shore power, although I have not tested that theory.  If you want to test the voltage in the battery through the cigarette lighter with a plug-in meter, you should disconnect the 7-pin and disconnect from shore power.  Of course the only true way to check it is to disconnect from all power sources and use a voltage meter with probes at the battery.

I am not sure the beeping has been totally stopped (although it hasn't happened today), but I am confident my battery is in better shape and should hold a charge better.

BTW, during my inspections, I discovered I have added the disconnect switch to the positive side of the battery.  It has been that way since I installed it two years ago.  And I thought all this time I had put it on the negative side.  Since it has not given me any problems and since I intend to be very careful with it, I will leave it that way for the time being.  If I ever change batteries or do any additional wiring, I suppose I will switch it to the negative.

Nomad

RZRBUG - I discovered the same low water state a month or so ago - Didn't look like it needed any but did.

Michigan_Mike

You are correct Larry,  it is always best to check the battery at the leads if possible with volt meter probes, but disconnecting the wiring harness will be a sufficient means of monitoring the voltage on the trailer's battery via the LED volt meter plugged into the cigarette style 12 V plug on the trailer.  

pcaddy said:

My battery keeps blowing the 30 Amp fuse -- had it back to the dealer and they fixed exposed wire .. I am still blowing the 30 amp fuse..any suggestions as to why?  I am taking back to dealer next week but wonder if anyone can help with ideas.  Tnks.

It sounds like something is still amiss with your trailer and that there is another bare lead that is creating a grounded scenario.  Does this condition occur each time a fuse is replaced in the trailer or does it occur via a particular event (e.g., when you plug the trailer in to shore power, turn on a light, plug in the TV, etc.)?  What year is your trailer and when did you first notice this happening?  

jkjenn

RZRBUG said:

On my last stop on the way home yesterday, I was approached by a Zombie (why is it always when you're in the biggest rush?).  When I opened the door, I noticed the LP detector was beeping (LP had been shut off, so sure that was not the problem).  I looked at the battery meter plugged into the 12V socket and saw that it was registering low.  I had the 7-pin plugged in and had been driving that way for HOURS.

When the Zombies left, I started the truck and the meter immediately shot up to over 13V.  I turned everything off I could, including the fridge, and turned the battery cutoff switch to off and drove the three more hours home.  When I stopped and shut off the truck motor, the beeping started again.  Being too tired to mess with it, I shut everything down and went to bed.

This morning, without connecting the 7-pin and with the cutoff switch still off, I checked the voltage again and got a reading of 12.7V, fully charged.  Anyone got any ideas?

Larry, a couple of thoughts. First, about the battery and the 12v voltmeter...I find it helpful but also confusing. It shows you the draw and charge rate, but not really the current charge state. So, if I pull over while towing and have the fridge on the battery while towing, I am likely to see a red light and low charge. If I turn off the fridge, the voltmeter immediately shows a full charge and reads the charge from my TV. I will likely invest in a more expensive battery monitoring set up because it is rather annoying to not know the true state if the battery without digging out my meter and measuring directly from the battery, since I have a lockable rachet strap around the battery box.

I also had some beeping from my CO2 monitor after driving a couple of times on this recent trip. The battery had a full charge on both cases. I found that airing out the T@b solved it. Is it possible that CO2 is getting in from the exhaust from my TV? In both cases, it was a warm day.

RZRBUG

I've had the T@B parked under the shed since I returned last week with the Zamp solar battery tender plugged in. I have been out to check on it a few times and have not noticed any beeping. I have also unplugged the Zamp and checked the charge with the plug-in monitor and every time it has read 12.7.  So, I assume the fridge and ARB together were pulling more than the TV could supply.  I don't have any other explanation. As I mentioned earlier, I did add distilled water to the battery after I got back. As Mike mentioned, I believe the plug-in monitor is fairly accurate for checking the charge state when the trailer is disconnected from all power sources.

Michigan_Mike

Jenn points out some good things with the CO2 monitor and if the roof vent (or a window) is open or cracked this could allow a small amount of carbon monoxide to enter the trailer during travel or even when idling at a traffic stop, etc.  There is a myth too that carbon monoxide is a lot heavier than air and will sink to the bottom of an enclosed area.  Actually CO2 is "slightly" heavier than air and actually mixes within air. My parents were nearly overcome by CO2 in a trailer many years ago and my mom was sleeping in a camper bunk over the truck cab via a defective furnace inside the unit.  So it can happen and ceiling mounted CO2 detectors provide coverage as do the plug mounted detectors that are mounted low because they need to be plugged into a receptacle for voltage.  

I'm guessing that with the ARB and trailer refrigerator running this produces a good draw on the battery as it has been noted before that unless you have an upgraded battery system the stock battery has a tendency to run down via the frig.  And in as much as the LED meters do show a 13+ volt reading when plugged into the vehicle and it is running or when plugged into a solar panel, this reading will dissipate some, drop down to a reading that Larry noted (12.7 volts) when the charge source is removed and the battery plates stabilize and spread the voltage out across the battery plates.  I've observed this many times via my fixed 50 watt Renogy solar panel mounted on my garage and it's interesting as it does take a little time for things to stabilize and you can watch the LED meter change as the voltage drops.  

Bill_in_Tulsa

RZRBUG said:

On my last stop on the way home yesterday, I was approached by a Zombie (why is it always when you're in the biggest rush?).  When I opened the door, I noticed the LP detector was beeping (LP had been shut off, so sure that was not the problem).  I looked at the battery meter plugged into the 12V socket and saw that it was registering low.  I had the 7-pin plugged in and had been driving that way for HOURS.

When the Zombies left, I started the truck and the meter immediately shot up to over 13V.  I turned everything off I could, including the fridge, and turned the battery cutoff switch to off and drove the three more hours home.  When I stopped and shut off the truck motor, the beeping started again.  Being too tired to mess with it, I shut everything down and went to bed.

This morning, without connecting the 7-pin and with the cutoff switch still off, I checked the voltage again and got a reading of 12.7V, fully charged.  Anyone got any ideas?

Did you say the battery cutoff switch was Off? So the battery power is going no Where, correct? the only time there is power to anything in the trailer is when you are connected to the TV.
Or did I read it wrong.

RZRBUG

Bill, now I'm confused, which is nothing unusual for me.  It has been long enough that I don't remember if I turned the switch to Off, or if the above is a misstatement.  Can't believe I would actually do that because it would be kinda stupid. ?

I haven't been camping since, but I have kept a check on the battery, kept the solar maintainer plugged in, and have had the power on for brief periods.  So far, the beeping has not happened again, and the charge has been good.  We'll see next time I'm out if it happens again, and I'll do some more checking.

EDIT:  I've given this some more thought.  First, I should say that my cutoff switch is wired into the positive side.  I plug my solar maintainer into a 12V socket that I installed on my battery/LP cover.  It is not connected to the cutoff switch, so I can turn it to Off and still charge the battery.  Again, I may be mistaken, but I "think" the battery still receives a charge through the TV with the cutoff switch set to OFF.  Since I created this confusion, I will connect the truck to the trailer tomorrow and see if that is correct and will report back.

Bill_in_Tulsa

I was under the impression that the battery got charged from the Converter? Maybe I am wrong....

Nomad

If you're plugged into shore power it does. Don't know what has priority if you have shore power and a tender or solar.

RZRBUG

Bill_in_Tulsa said:

I was under the impression that the battery got charged from the Converter? Maybe I am wrong....

I'll back my truck up to the trailer under the storage shed tomorrow and plug it in.  I'll do some tests with motor running and off, and with cut off switch on and off.  Let you know what I find.

RZRBUG

UPDATE TESTED:  I connected the 7-pin to the trailer and did some testing this morning.  Here are the results.

OUTSIDE READINGS

1) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading at battery: 12.8

2) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading at battery: 12.8

3) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor not running.  Reading at battery: 12.8

4) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Motor not running.  Reading at battery:  12.8

5) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading at battery:  14.5

6) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading at battery:  14.5

INSIDE READINGS

1) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading:  12.8

2)  Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Reading:  12.8

3) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Reading:  None

4) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading:  14.8

With the Cut Off switch set to OFF, 7-pin plugged in and motor running, there is no interior reading, but reading at the battery shows 14.5, which should mean the battery is being charged?

As I said before, my Cut Off switch is installed on the positive side, so these results may be different if installed on the negative.

jkjenn

RZRBUG said:

As I said before, my Cut Off switch is installed on the positive side, so these results may be different if installed on the negative.

Larry, thanks for testing and posting. It really does resolve the question. I wouldn't think which side your switch is connected to should impact the results.

SweetlyHome

The diagram I have attached is what I have I mind when I think about battery charging on our T@B.  This is just a ladder diagram, not the physical wiring, and is based on my tracing wires and observing readings taken like RZRBUG.  The diagram is also consistent with his readings above.  I have omitted any fuses in my haste to finish the diagram.  If there is interest in the future I will update.

Note that the power source (T.V. Alternator, Solar, or Converter) with highest voltage output will do the charging.  

jkjenn

SweetlyHome said:

The diagram I have attached is what I have I mind when I think about battery charging on our T@B.  This is just a ladder diagram, not the physical wiring, and is based on my tracing wires and observing readings taken like RZRBUG.  The diagram is also consistent with his readings above.  I have omitted any fuses in my haste to finish the diagram.  If there is interest in the future I will update.

Note that the power source (T.V. Alternator, Solar, or Converter) with highest voltage output will do the charging.  

Cool - thanks! Why do you have solar after the switch? Is that how you have it wired?

SweetlyHome

Jen,

I don't have solar. I based this on my understanding from other postings.  The solar can certainly be attached on the other side of the battery cutoff switch.

I have a feeling this diagram is a work in progress.

Dave

SweetlyHome

RZRBUG said:

UPDATE TESTED:  I connected the 7-pin to the trailer and did some testing this morning.  Here are the results.

OUTSIDE READINGS

1) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading at battery: 12.8

2) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading at battery: 12.8

3) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor not running.  Reading at battery: 12.8

4) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Motor not running.  Reading at battery:  12.8

5) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading at battery:  14.5

6) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading at battery:  14.5

INSIDE READINGS

1) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading:  12.8

2)  Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Reading:  12.8

3) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Reading:  None

4) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading:  14.8

With the Cut Off switch set to OFF, 7-pin plugged in and motor running, there is no interior reading, but reading at the battery shows 14.5, which should mean the battery is being charged?

As I said before, my Cut Off switch is installed on the positive side, so these results may be different if installed on the negative.

I just re-read this and would like to confirm where exactly where you took your "Outside readings", "Inside reading", and where your cut off switch is located?  With a cut off switch located directly in the wire at the T@B battery (positive or negative wire) turned off the voltage should not have gone up in #5 if you were measuring across the T@B battery posts.  With a normally installed cut off switch, directly in the wire to the battery, you should have lights (interior reading) in the T@B when hooked to the T.V. (running or not).  

I was using the lights my T@B this weekend while working on it at the storage yard.  My T@B battery was home in the garage on the charger and the 7 pin was hooked to my T.V. This is what I would expect based on my diagram.

Michigan_Mike

SweetlyHome said:

Jen,

I don't have solar. I based this on my understanding from other postings.  The solar can certainly be attached on the other side of the battery cutoff switch.

My trailer's solar ports are hooked directly to the battery and this allows me to charge the battery with the shutoff switch in either the open or closed position.  

RZRBUG

SweetlyHome said:

RZRBUG said:

UPDATE TESTED:  I connected the 7-pin to the trailer and did some testing this morning.  Here are the results.

OUTSIDE READINGS

1) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading at battery: 12.8

2) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading at battery: 12.8

3) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor not running.  Reading at battery: 12.8

4) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Motor not running.  Reading at battery:  12.8

5) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading at battery:  14.5

6) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading at battery:  14.5

INSIDE READINGS

1) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin unplugged.  Reading:  12.8

2)  Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Reading:  12.8

3) Cut Off switch off.  7-pin plugged.  Reading:  None

4) Cut Off switch on.  7-pin plugged.  Motor running.  Reading:  14.8

With the Cut Off switch set to OFF, 7-pin plugged in and motor running, there is no interior reading, but reading at the battery shows 14.5, which should mean the battery is being charged?

As I said before, my Cut Off switch is installed on the positive side, so these results may be different if installed on the negative.

I just re-read this and would like to confirm where exactly where you took your "Outside readings", "Inside reading", and where your cut off switch is located?  With a cut off switch located directly in the wire at the T@B battery (positive or negative wire) turned off the voltage should not have gone up in #5 if you were measuring across the T@B battery posts.  With a normally installed cut off switch, directly in the wire to the battery, you should have lights (interior reading) in the T@B when hooked to the T.V. (running or not).  

I was using the lights my T@B this weekend while working on it at the storage yard.  My T@B battery was home in the garage on the charger and the 7 pin was hooked to my T.V. This is what I would expect based on my diagram.

Good questions.  My cut off switch is located on the cover of my battery box.  Operating it would be just like disconnecting the positive lead from the battery.

Both readings were taken with a digital meter that plugs into a 12V cigarette type socket (I did not use a voltage meter with probes as the plug-in meter is relatively accurate).  I have one of these installed on the battery/LP cover on the outside.  It is wired directly to the battery with a fused positive lead.  The cut off switch has no effect on its operation.  This is where I took the outside readings. 

The inside readings were taken with the digital meter plugged into the 12V socket that came installed above the counter from the factory.  I have no idea how or where it is wired.  I do know that it is not "live" if the battery cut off switch is in the off position.  In my test, with the cut off switch in the off position, there was no power inside the T@B even with the 7-pin plugged in.  (See No. 3 under INSIDE READINGS above.)

Hope this helps.  I had not thought about being able to power the T@B with the TV battery through the 7-pin without the T@B battery installed.  Thanks for pointing that out.

SweetlyHome

Not sure how its possible but it reads to me that your 7 pin charge wire is somehow connected directly to the positive post of your T@B battery.  Any extra wires to support this?  The cut off switch the TV from the interior but not the battery being charged.

RZRBUG

Beats the heck out me, Dave.  My TV is a 2012 GMC Sierra that came with a tow package.  The 7-pin plug was already installed.  All I've done is connect the 7-pin wiring from the trailer to it.

Here's my total battery wiring setup.  Maybe you can see something that I don't. 

I installed a cut off switch on the positive wire of the battery.

I installed a 12V plug on the battery/LP cover.  It is wired directly to the battery so that I can use it to run my solar battery maintainer, and I can use it to check the charge state of my battery without turning the cut off switch to the on position and going inside the trailer.  It is fused.

I installed the special ARB plug that came with it on the battery/LP cover.  It is wired directly to the battery.  I can use it with the cut off switch in the off position, although I haven't done so yet.  It is fused.

Allie

I had a battery that died very quickly and would not keep a charge.  Turned out that the battery was dying because the wire coming from the fuse was not completely covered.  The bare wire must have be hitting on the frame, or some metal.  Fried the fuse and the battery.  I had to pay the difference in price of the original battery and the new battery, plus the 95$ labor charge because the dealer is responsible for the battery.  He is 2 hrs away, and the local RV repair took care of it for me.  Whoever LG has doing their electrical work needs to retrain him.  I have had the trailer out only 3x, and each time had to bring it in for repairs because of electrical problems. 

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Michigan_Mike

Allie said:

I had a battery that died very quickly and would not keep a charge.  Turned out that the battery was dying because the wire coming from the fuse was not completely covered.  The bare wire must have be hitting on the frame, or some metal.  Fried the fuse and the battery.  I had to pay the difference in price of the original battery and the new battery, plus the 95$ labor charge because the dealer is responsible for the battery.  He is 2 hrs away, and the local RV repair took care of it for me.  Whoever LG has doing their electrical work needs to retrain him.  I have had the trailer out only 3x, and each time had to bring it in for repairs because of electrical problems. 

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It sounds like this was the original problem all along that you've discussed in your previous thread and when a wire shorts out and goes to ground the fuse is normally the first thing that blows.  From your photo the fuse holder looks like it was burning and eventually failed.  And if the wire was bare what did the RV tech say it was rubbing on and going to ground to?   What size fuse was inside the fuse holder?   Did your dealer service the trailer the prior two times?  I understand your frustration as I'd probably be upset too, but also hope you sent these photos on to the factory and Ed Kauffman so that they have an idea as to what really took place here as it sounds like there is more to this story.  

    

pcaddy

I posted earlier that my 30 amp fuse to the battery kept blowing..this problem had continued after two trips to the dealer where exposed wires were fixed.  The fuse was still blowing after that..I then discovered that the fuse was blowing only after being hooked up to my tow vehicle .. the only connection would be the 7 pin or the trailer brake.  After the third trip back and the dealer checking the 7 pin and the trailer brake line .. the problem was the trailer brake line which was located too close to he exhaust pipe.  Once the exhaust heated up .. it was blowing the fuse..just another idea to check if you are having problems blowing the 30 amp battery fuse..my problem was twofold 1. bare wire 2. tow brake line too close to exhaust.  Hope this information helps someone else out there!