Circuit Breakers (and Fuses) Mislabelled

ScottG

Recent posts have prompted me to poke and prod the T@B's innards in an effort to understand how all the parts fit together. In doing so, I noticed that the AC circuits attached to the individual breakers did not quite match up with the information on the sticker inside the panel. The mix up was among the three 20A circuits (air conditioner, Alde, and fridge), so it makes no difference electrically. However, if you were working on the wiring with the camper attached to shore power you might be in for an, um, enlightening surprise if you muckled onto a circuit that you thought you had disconnected.

I'm not suggesting this applies to everyone's T@B, just that it pays to take a look around once in a while!

RZRBUG

Good information, Scott.  Of course, I always disconnect from shore power and disconnect the battery before doing any electrical work in the T@B for just that reason.  Better safe than sorry.

Nomad

What, you don't want to look like Albert Einstein? Whimps ;-)

Ratkity

PXLated said:

What, you don't want to look like Albert Einstein? Whimps ;-)

You crack me up! LOL

Nomad

;-)

ScottG

RZRBUG said:

Good information, Scott.  Of course, I always disconnect from shore power and disconnect the battery before doing any electrical work in the T@B for just that reason.  Better safe than sorry.

Agreed! I do the same, though I like pretend that I'm livin' on the edge...

Nomad

We had an electrician in my hometown that would leave everything live. He'd wet his finger tips and run them down the copper strips in the big circuit box to see where the problem was. This was on big commercial boxes. My dad would just stand there in amazement that he'd barely flinched. Crazy!

wizard1880

What, you actually have labels on your breakers?  Lucky you!  Either they missed ours or the early 2014 models didn't have them!

ScottG

Mine is 2015 M@x S. The breakers themselves aren't labeled, but there is a small sticker on the inside of the panal door that says which "position" serves which circuit. However, judging by where the wires coming off the breakers actually go, the order of positions is not the same as the order of circuits.   

Michigan_Mike

PXLated said:

We had an electrician in my hometown that would leave everything live. He'd wet his finger tips and run them down the copper strips in the big circuit box to see where the problem was. This was on big commercial boxes. My dad would just stand there in amazement that he'd barely flinched. Crazy!

A lot of times you "can" feel heat build-up on a circuit breaker in a panel that is going bad.  Our service workers would look for heat build up in this manner in a customer's electric panel and we used the 3M laser heat guns out on the line to locate and repair bad splices on electrical circuits.  Bad connections/splices/contacts create a lot of work and eventually will fail.  

Photomom

PXLated said:

We had an electrician in my hometown that would leave everything live. He'd wet his finger tips and run them down the copper strips in the big circuit box to see where the problem was. This was on big commercial boxes. My dad would just stand there in amazement that he'd barely flinched. Crazy!

In my early career I was an electronic technician. Some of the old timers would test for electricity by laying the back of their hand on the suspect connections. The theory was, if the circuit were live the electricity would contract the muscles in their hand and fingers, thus pulling their hand safely away. I always used a circuit tester, myself.

ScottG

For those who may not be following the recent thread on Alde problems...

This weekend I discovered that not only are my 120V AC circuit breakers mislabelled, but so are the 12V DC fuses in the converter block. In both cases, the fridge and the Alde circuits were juxtaposed. Yours may differ.

This is a frustrating oversight that potentially turns simple troubleshooting into a major electrical investigation. I'm glad I'm learning this stuff in my yard instead of in camp when I trying to fix something on the fly.

ScottG

And while I was at it, I made another useful discovery...

Although it's not stated on the label, the 15A 120V AC breaker that protects the cabin receptacles (slot #2 in my panel) also controls power to the converter. If it's tripped or off, none of your 12V devices will work from shore power.

AldebaranJill

A link to my attempt at wiring diagram:
http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/3922/2013-t-b-wiring-diagram-including-trimetric-battery-meter-shunt-and-noco-genius-battery-charger#latest

Your results may vary :-)

ScottG

AldebaranJill said:

A link to my attempt at wiring diagram:
http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/3922/2013-t-b-wiring-diagram-including-trimetric-battery-meter-shunt-and-noco-genius-battery-charger#latest

Your results may vary :-)

Yup. I don't have a diagram on paper, but mine is a bit different from both yours and Rick's.

BTW, I'll bet a nickel that the yellow wire pointing to the question mark in your diagram is the 12V line to your fridge (assuming you have a 3-way or 2-way model).

AldebaranJill

ScottG said:

BTW, I'll bet a nickel that the yellow wire pointing to the question mark in your diagram is the 12V line to your fridge (assuming you have a 3-way or 2-way model).

I tried a "what turns off if I pull the fuse" test, and the fridge on 12 only went off when I pulled F6, which doesn't make sense to me. But I'll make a note to retest your nickel theory :-)

ScottG

I agree it doesn't make sense, since F6 should be the main line to/from the battery (which is exactly what your diagram shows).

Were you running off the battery when you did your fuse-pulling test? If so, yanking that fuse would effectively disconnect power to your fridge--as well as everything else.

My suggestion was based weakly on the fact that I didn't see a fridge on your diagram, and that a yellow wire is typically used to provide 12V+ power to the fridge. Of course, we know your T@B is anything but typical!  :-)

Regardless, I would expect the 12V fridge circuit to be protected by more than a 10A fuse, so I guess the mystery deepens...

Ratkity

Not only are some T@Bs not typical, some T@B owners are too! Muhahahahaha. It's not the flamingos now... it's pink bunnies.

Nomad

Aren't you getting sick of that old meme yet Ratkity - It's like a broken record.

Ratkity

Nope! Never PXL. Not until I find another suitable replacement.