Anyone attempted a glycol exchange on Alde?

ChanW

No Delta, I haven't done it yet either... 

I do think it will be a little more complicated than 'drain and fill'.

It's likely that the reason that Alde recommends a pump-type bleeder tool is because getting the air out of a (sort of horizontal) closed tubing system can be difficult.

The Tab's Alde system has lots of 'high points' where air pockets can collect, and those need to be eliminated. The pump system that the factory uses probably forces the air out of the system with rapidly flowing fluid. 

Note that Alde says you can do it yourself, though it's more time consuming, by tilting the Tab so that the bleeder is at the high point. My bleeder is on the right rear (passenger side) of the whole system, under the back shelf.

So I would probably park the Tab on my shop vehicle ramps, with the driver's side a bit lower than the passenger side, and drop the tongue to the ground, so that the right rear corner is definitely the high point.

BTW, I believe the 'automatic air vent' that Jenn is showing is not for bleeding the system so much as it is for venting small amounts of residual air that tends to develop in boiler systems over time (heating the glycol naturally releases oxygen from the fluid, and it needs to vent).

As I mentioned, there's a screw-type bleeder on my system under the back shelf on the passenger side. Probably on everyone's, I'm thinking.

I think Alde recommends bleeding it numerous times if using this method, and then running the circulation pump to get the air out of the nooks and crannies, and bleeding again, all the while watching the level of the glycol in the reservoir.

Here's the section from the manual:

"Bleeding a caravan heating system (manually):
The LPG boiler must be switched on and the circulation pump 
switched off. Start by opening the bleeder screws (please refer 
to the vehicle instruction book for their location). Leave them 
open until liquid escapes through the spout at the air screw. 
Switch on the circulation pump and let it run for a while. Check 
whether the pipes and radiators all around the caravan are 
warm.
If air still remains in the system, try the following:
The LPG must be switched on and the circulation pump 
switched off. Lower the front of the caravan as far as possible 
using the jockey wheel. Leave it in this position for several 
minutes, to allow any air to rise to the highest point in the 
system. Open the bleeder screw at the highest point and keep 
it open until all the air has escaped. 
Then raise the front of the caravan as high as possible using 
the jockey wheel, and repeat the process. 
Return the caravan to a horizontal position and start the 
circulation pump. 
Check that the heat is circulating all around the caravan. When 
bleeding a trailer or a motor caravan, it is easier to park on a 
steep slope, or raise the vehicle using a jack."

The service manual is attached.

bigmatt

jkjenn said:

 Both the drain and fill are easily accessible.
 

Where is this easily accessible drain located ?

ChanW

Matt, it's under the Tab, in the area of the Alde.

Picture and discussion here: http://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2116/one-unknown-drain-on-the-2015-max-s

bigmatt said:

Where is this easily accessible drain located ?

John_and_Kris

I understand that you can also get the glycol  from LG thru Elsie the Parts Manager. I would assume that this is what they use at the factory and would also assume that it is approved by Alde....2 assumptions here

leenscottfl

Deltaboy59 said, "Wonder why the factory uses a bleeder tool if the auto bleeder takes care of this problem as you state ?" The pump's price was in Euros. It was said that the systems made for the Ameicas are not the same as those made for Europe. If the pump was required here the pumps should be sold in boat supply stores since that is where Alde systems have been used for some time now.

Joe

Last post on this thread was Feb., 2016.  Has anyone done the glycol exchange yet?

Nomad

Someone has, I remember seeing a post. The Alde hasn't been around that long so not that many coming due yet.

GibW

On Alde's app they say the glycol only needs to replaced every 5 years for a good quality glycol. 2 years for poor quality. Assuming that T@B uses good quality, it would seem we're good for 5 years. 

Nomad

If I recall correctly, who ever did it was roughly at the three year mark.

jdargis

When I talked to Alde USA last fall, they said the mixture Nu Camp was using was for 2 years,  they told me they were trying to get them to use the Alde USA formula, which is good for 3 to 4 years.  They told me the European market only had the 5 year alcohol.

Alde USA, also pointed out me, to switch to their alcohol.  You would need to flush the system, twice with water.  Then you can use their alcohol.

Otherwise, they said with the Nu Camp alcohol, drain and add new and bleed the system.

This was per a conversation with their tech representative.

jdargis

Not to drag this out, AldeUSA also said the auto bleeder was there to remove air under normal usage.  They said when draining and replacing the alcohol, you would need to bleed the system, using the bleeder screw.  Which I see we have only one on our unit.  Which is located on the large radiator, no bleeder on the small one.

Nomad

Having lived with a radiant heat system for 40 years (radiators similar to the T@B), bleeding is a real pain :-(

mona

Just had mine changed this week at PV.

jeannie

Carolyn

We had the exchange done at Tearstock last summer. At the time we had used the system for two seasons. Marvin made the comment that the glycol had lost some color and along with that I would imagine pH.  Although we do most of our own maintenance, this is not something I would attempt.

Mariner459

Above mentions alcohol but it is glycol....chemically an alcohol but wanted to clarify for newbies....and it is "safe" antifreeze type formula to avoid poisoning animals and people who might taste it.

Joe

Just tried the glycol exchange today.  My trailer was built in 2014, so I thought it was time.

I hate going to the dealer because last time I called they said they were three months behind on service.  I really don't want to miss three months of nice camping weather.

A few weeks ago i ordered pre-mixed glycol from Elsie.  She suggested I purchase three gallons.  

Today I pulled the plug and drained as much as would come out.  Only about a gallon.  I turned on the Alde for a couple of minutes to see if that would force out any additional fluid.  No luck.  I then got a small air compressor and adjusted it down to 10 pounds.  I wrapped my fingers around the fill tank opening and tried to apply some air pressure.  Still no luck getting the additional two gallons out.  So, I refilled the tank to just above the min mark and ran it for a few minutes to get the air out of the lines.

Bottom line: I could only get one gallon exchanged.  Hopefully that is better than nothing.  The color of the old fluid looked good.  

I guess this is harder than I thought it would be.

db_cooper

I thought a gallon was normal,   following to see if anyone got 3 gallons out.  I replaced ours a month ago, and only got a gallon as well.

Hobien

I just went through my 3rd winter on the original antifreeze and even though the PH was still OK, I decided to go ahead and change it out. My 2015 QMax(bought in 2014) had yellow antifreeze. Calls to both the factory and the dealer were unsuccessful in identifying the type of antifreeze present. I decided to replace it with Prestone LowTox propylene antifreeze(green). As others stated, about a gallon drained out initially. I decided to just go ahead and flush it with distilled water until only clear water drained out.  After draining(around a gallon each time) I would replace the plug, add about a gallon of distilled water(slightly more sometimes and not added all at once) and turn on the Alde and run it for about 10 minutes before emptying again. You need to pay attention to the reservoir and add distilled water as needed during the run cycle. It seemed like it took most of the ten minutes to fully purge the system, eventual bubbling in the reservoir.  It took me 6 flush cycles to remove all hints of antifreeze in the fluid that drained. I did raise the front of the trailer as high as it would go to drain and then bring it down to it's lowest level when adding water and running the pump, this kept the air release high.  I opened the air valve with each cycle(behind the bench back on the passenger side) and sometimes some air would escape and other times only fluid. When I replaced with the new antifreeze I knew distilled water was still in the system so added a little concentrated antifreeze before topping off with a 50/50 mixture. This was a bit of a guessing game. Prestone LowTox has a -26 rating with the 50/50 mixture. After letting the Alde run for about 20 minutes I tested it with a refractometer(has a scale for propylene glycol) and came up with only -10, a bit thin. This I had to play with, adding a little more concentrate and even draining a little to make room until approaching the -26 reading. After running for 20 minutes I had no evidence of air locks as heat was reaching all parts of the system. The whole process was a little tedious but not hard, took me about 2 1/2 hrs.  

ChanW

I recently drained and rinsed the Alde system, for refilling, and agree w/ @Hobien...
I've drained and rinsed 3 times now, before filling with the 50/50 Prestone Low-Tox.
Raising the tongue to the max is necessary to drain the radiator hoses on the passenger side (there's a radiator under the passenger side bench-seat in the 2014 model).
Each drain/fill was about a gallon and 3 cups.

Tabnero

Thanks for all the discussion. I am coming up on 2 years so I called the designated Alde service center. They do not have the tool, have never done an exchange, all they have done is top off the overflow. He did say the glycol was good for 5 years. Hard to believe when they have never done an exhange. so I ordered glycol and will top off for the next year and see how it goes in year 3

ChanW

@Tabnero, you can keep better track of the effectiveness of your glycol solution by testing the ph and the glycol concentration as this linked thread discusses. http://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2103/good-tools-for-alde-maintenance

ChanW

@Tabnero, I'm thinking that the tool may not be necessary for our (more simple) Tab hydronic system. The tool might make the job less tedious (ie: a lot of jacking the tongue up and down  doing it manually), but I'm pretty sure I was able to drain the system completely, and then bleed the air off, simply by tilting the Tab this way and that. It took me a couple hours, and 4 gallons of distilled water (3 rinses). Tilt it with the tongue jack, up and down, and mostly toward the back, and slightly toward the driver's side.
EDIT: I was not able to drain it all out. The driver's side convector doesn't drain.
If you remove the bench seat lids, you can put a small level on the hoses while jacking up the tongue, to be sure all the hoses and fittings are draining.

I dunno if you have a radiator under the passenger side seat, but on our 2014, the passenger side radiator's supply hoses go slightly uphill from that bench seat area to the back radiator, so I had to jack the tongue up really high, to get the passenger side radiator to drain up that 'hill'. The newer Tabs don't have that right-hand radiator though, from what I understand.

I think the instructions we've seen, that recommend using the 'tool', could be for more complex campers' heating systems. Or it probably just makes the whole procedure quicker.

Verna

I cheated—I had Austin change out my glycol at üCamp17. That, my camping friends, is easy

ChanW

@Verna, methinks your magic wand is multipurpose!

ericnliz

Ha, Good one @ChanW! In a variety of ways.

ChanW

Update:
Since it finally took me 4.5qts of 100% Prestone LowTox to get to -30°F (measured using a refractometer) I'd have to say the total glycol capacity of the Alde system must be around 2 gallons, just like Ed Kaufmann at Nucamp said! 

So, I must not have drained it so thoroughly... hmmm.
  
Now I'm thinking that the more reliable way to do the glycol exchange is with a pump. There are too many 'uphill' hoses in the system to be able to get them to totally drain.

Another drain port or two might make it do-able.

Tabnero

I just topped off the over flow tank and raised and lowered the nose. Worked like a champion and was more quiet than the first time run when purchased 2 years ago. very happy, it was cold this weekend in Mason Texas

Michigan_Mike

I had nuCamp do mine too, when they fixed a leak on the front of the trailer.  I believe that they do use a pump hookup when extracting the old fluid from the trailer.  I'm good to go for a couple more years of at least until I get into a 400.  

visher

I've spent a silly amount of time trying to find the correct boiler fluid. I finally spoke to Spencer at Alde. Buy Century Chemical TF-1 Heat Transfer Fluid for $25 on amazon. This is what Little Guy was using on 2014 models. He said that changing out the fluid depends on how much it is used and on refractometer results but without that tool he would change it at about 3 years. 

DurangoTaB

Ditto to visher...I got 3 gals from Elsie, $60 for the glycol, $40 for shipping.  Lots of YouTube videos, but most are for techs who have that funky pump.