New to the TAB - Frustrated

Photomom

jkjenn said:

Photomom said:

Coming from a product development andmanufacturing environment, I would have assumed that RV manufacturers would employ technical writers and would train their dealers.

I have to say the adventure should be seeing the country and meeting new people, not spending hours figuring out how the trailer works. 

Coming from the adult education world, it would be better to employ an instructional designer to wrote a manual. Tech writers are usually too technically detailed for the lay person. Additionally, an instructional designer knows how to leverage adult learning principles to create content that connects with people. Really, such a person could handle the customer and dealer education. While the engineers and tech people may prefer a tech manual, they do not comprise the majority of owners.

Most people hate their owners manuals because they have the wrong people writing them.

Current market trends for all industries is for the business to become more buyer focused. LG and PV are extremely buyer focused. Scott Hubble even publishes his cell phone number. I am also not aware of any other RV distributor that has a dedicated owners forum.

I hear you, there is a difference between technical waiting and instructional design and I've done both in my long career. I think the key is writing from a task based perspective. Instead if "here's the Alde, this switch does this, that switch does that", I'd much rather see "Want to take a shower? Do this, then that, and when you're done, do this last thing." 

Tabaz

This forum is the de facto owner's manual. What I find puzzling is the lack of factory participation in our numerous and varied attempts at solving problems amongst ourselves. What precludes a factory rep from chiming in with a known solution?

jdargis

The forum administrators can answer that best.

jkjenn

OutbackAZ said:

This forum is the de facto owner's manual. What I find puzzling is the lack of factory participation in our numerous and varied attempts at solving problems amongst ourselves. What precludes a factory rep from chiming in with a known solution?

Time. There are not many who would have the breadth of knowledge to field the questions here and truthfully, probably 90% can be answered by other owners. 5% probably require a mod to get an answer from the factory and the other 5% are probably unique to the individual and are best served by either working with the dealer or calling the factory directly. PV is not a huge company, by any means and they have experienced extremely fast growth.

Mouseketab

I hear you, there is a difference between technical waiting and instructional design and I've done both in my long career. I think the key is writing from a task based perspective. Instead if "here's the Alde, this switch does this, that switch does that", I'd much rather see "Want to take a shower? Do this, then that, and when you're done, do this last thing." 

Funny side story. I manage proposals for a living. My group of instructional designers are my FAVORITE writers. They have the best success rate, and write exceptional proposals. Now my groups that are techy types and even academic types... they are TERRIBLE writers.

(just venting, as I just spent my entire Easter Sunday editing/formatting a proposal written by a brilliant academic guy........ sigh)

Ratkity

^^^ Mousie, try writing something scientific to a lawyer that has no biology background at all. Believe it or not, we have courses (plural) in "Plain Writing" to help us poor scientists get out of passive voice and write like a normal person. I still have to have a couple sets of eyes to look at it and make sure I haven't dropped into old habits.

ChanW

And how about teaching lawyers how to write things that normal people can understand?!?

Oh no, I guess not. That might put them out of business...

Oops, topic is straying. Sorry.

ScottG

irvingj said:

Have had to figure a lot of stuff on my own, but hey-- that's part of the adventure, right?

Photomom said:

I have to say the adventure should be seeing the country and meeting new people, not spending hours figuring out how the trailer works. 

jkjenn quoted:

"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered." – G.K Chesterton

Ay, there's the rub! Maybe what we really need is a new thread to discuss the definition of adventure.  ;-)

Michigan_Mike

ST_Bob said:

Tell you the honest truth - I never read one of the manuals for my 31 foot motorhome - and I survived...  Some people learn by reading - others learn by doing.  I'm one of the latter.

I agree.... You can have the best printed instructions in the world and many folks cannot comprehend them as they are far too detailed for people to understand and actually use.  

And inasmuch as we as moderators DO often ask that people call the factory for assistance they would rather complain than do just that....  We all start out as newbies with these trailers and I not only sense  your frustrations, I know these frustrations well, as I purchased my 2015 T@B Maxx S last fall, so I am in the same boat with those of you who have recently purchased a new trailer.  

And to clarify a few things here LG and the factory DO NOT read the forum areas (obviously they are busy running the business end of things) and am not sure that the dealers read it either.  So it's not that these people are ignoring any postings, nor not for lack of caring, etc. but because time just does not permit it.  We as moderators monitor two forum areas independent of LG, and with my personal life, my family and things I am involved in (away from the forum areas) it is difficult to read all postings, keep abreast of things here on the forum and respond to questions, inquiries, etc.  

I asked Little Guy to sponsor this forum a little over a year ago as after previously starting up the Little Guy forum we were a mix of LG and T@B owners in one forum.  I felt that by forming an independent forum for T@B owners it would allow people a means of sharing a wealth of knowledge/info and we would accumulate a repository of information available for others to use for years to come and information relevant to T@B trailers.  THAT is the purpose of the forum and inasmuch as I hear and can sense people's frustrations/anger therein, we as members and as the moderating/admin team are here to help out.  We are also all unpaid volunteers, we donate our time/efforts freely/willingly, in an effort to help out others and the forum isn't the place to vent your frustrations, as we run this forum independent of Little Guy and the factory.  

I will also add that this isn't the first time people have vented (the LG forum has been on-line for just over 5 years now) and that the last time things went south the forum venue nearly came to an end as our host was ready to throw in the towel and shut the Little Guy forum down.   It was via discussions with the leadership/president of Little Guy that I was able get them to agree to allow the forum concept to continue to remain open and on-line and for people to be allowed to congregate here, share ideas, concepts and to communicate as a family of friends/owners who share the love of nature, the great outdoors and these trailers.  

I share my thoughts here not to convey any personal anger or frustration or anything like that, but more as a means of sharing information and creating some understanding and awareness as opposed to some of the frustration and vitriol I sense in many of your prior postings in this discussion.  I do chuckle thinking back to some of the discussions that Verna and I have had in the past and which she warned me about a month ago, that we are fast approaching a point in the season (after the long winter months, as spring approaches and because people have been shut inside via the winter months, have cabin fever and arguments begin on the forums) when people begin to prepare the trailers for the new camping season and there is a lot of pent up frustration and anxiety within.  I think we've arrived!

So with that said and with the information/explanations I have provided in the above missive I ask that members take the time to not only read through/understand the forum rules, but to also read through this letter from the offices of Little Guy World Wide.  I seek your continued support in keeping the forum areas open to constructive/civil discussions and as a means of networking with others, helping out those who need assistance, sharing new ideas/concepts and innovations that improve these trailers and that we do it all in a manner that promotes future growth, mutual respect/understanding, in an adult manner, respectful of our forum area hosts and others who visit and use our forum areas.   

Thanks!

TerryV6

Thanks a lot Mike!!  Many kudos to you.  I love this forum and to be clear, there are no anger issues coming from me.  I'm learning a lot from you veterans.. Thank you.  I only jumped into this thread because I hesitate to start a new one.  Since this thread has a frustrated heading, I'm signing out of here..

moosemama

Beautifully stated, Mike.  Thank you for all you and the other moderators do to maintain this forum, and to all the other owners who so willingly share their knowledge and experience.  I have learned so much in just a month of reading as many of these posts as I can.  We look forward to many years of enjoyment with our new T@B, in large part due to this helpful network of owners and enthusiasts.  

Tabaz

Good explanation Mike.  Especially Verna's comments about "cabin fever."  I hear bears are very cranky when they just get our of hibernation.

Michigan_Mike

I did pass the information on to the factory and got a response back from Scott Hubble, factory CEO as follows:

I think everyone that contributed to that thread is 100% correct….we are especially thin at experts on the unit – they tend to be dealing with protblems at hand, not preventative maintenance via a manual.  Preventative maintenance is the best kind, no doubt.  We are in the process of new manuals.  The myPod is complete and the Cirrus is just about done.  Next up is the T@B.  No doubt, this is not how we wanted to go about it, but it is the reality of the situation.

 Thank You,
Scott HubbleCEO

irvingj

Hey, no insults intended-- this is why I was so glad  to "discover" forums a few years ago-- for our new Sprinter/Roadtrek, for our T@B, for my Jetta TDI, for my sub-compact tractor, for my short-wing Piper, etc. etc.. I'd have been at quite a loss without these resources. As they say, "it's all good." (Well, OK, maybe "most" of it.)

I just wonder how folks survived before the internet (yeah, I'm one of them!). It's such a great resource, and forums such as this-- well-moderated, generally very positive & helpful-- have been a wonderful thing. Thanks to all who make this possible!

Verna

KYBawPaw, please call the factory concerning the A/C fan. Talk to the warranty department and see what they have to say. Ask them about your water heater, too. The factory has run into these questions before. 

Since your out spare tire was to be provided by the dealer, I don't know that the factory would cover that, but you can ask. If they say no, just get a spare that is the same size as your other tires and you're covered,

I'm glad you still love your T@B AND your wife
 

Ratkity

Mike, PXL, Verna and all the other mods my coffee-deprived brain can't think of their names... thank you for your time and efforts here. I don't want to hijack the thread cuz I know there's many threads that give you kudos, but you folks go above and beyond the call of duty. You are not just mods, you speak to the company and fill a void they know exists - I'm sure growing pains of a biz have more fires to put out and certain things like manuals sorta drop down the priority scale (not to suggest that any thing on that list isn't important). So as frustrated (see, on topic!) as I can get - whether it's due to my own incompetence or something got loose or needs attention - all members, mods and company respond to my requests. You and our members are my safety net. 

For newbies to the forum, you may read several posts expressing bewilderment and it may seem that there are constant problems with the products, but the majority of people who own these adorable campers don't have issues. I especially love the balance our clever members give the forum by posting amazing modifications and positive changes to their babies. I also love the reminders to routinely pay attention to certain items that need regular maintenance. Thank you again and forgive me if I sound frustrated when I have a problem. I promise to be as polite as possible, even if I'm about to grow another 100 gray hairs while typing!!

ddetar

Wow.  Really impressed by all the responses and useful information they offered.  It is great to know I am now part of a helpful family.

KyBawpaw

Hmmm...thought I ended up on quite a positive note. In the words of old Eric Burden of the Animals, "Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood."

ddetar

ddetar

Took above picture at campground in Michigan.  Thought is was a David and Goliath moment.  I tell people we can do everything the big guys can do and have every amenity except elbow room.

JohnDanielsCPA

I suppose for many of you who are new to RV'ing, the expectations of a manual and significant hand-holding are understandable.  However, you need to have some perspective here.  When you bought your house, did you get a manual that addressed the electrical, gas, AC, furnace, plumbing, etc. systems?  I sure didn't and I know no one that has.  I think there is a presumption that because RV's generally travel on wheels, we should have a thorough manual  that covers all these systems.  Fact is, my Truck manual isn't even that good - there are a lot of questions I have had that were not addressed by my manual.  It didn't even cover where to find my jack!  You need to realize that these RVs are practically houses in their complexity; again, electrical, plumbing, propane, AC/Furnace systems, etc.  Even if an RV manufacturer had the resources to write an exhaustive manual that covered all these systems, it would quickly go out-of-date, as RVs continue to evolve.  (How long have digital thermostats and LED lighting been around)?  Bottom line - you need to either take some responsibility to learn these "systems" on your own, or have a current AAA or Coachnet membership and/or a direct link to your dealer and mechanic.    I have also been amazed how many questions have been asked, sometimes, multiple times, that were already answered elsewhere in the forum.  The search box (and Google) are your friends!  I, for one, have been VERY appreciative of this forum.  It has answered almost all of my questions (and I haven't even bought my T@B yet) and helped me to decide whether to even buy one or not.  My conclusion, or course, it that I will.   I believe that the T@B is a solid unit, which is saying a lot given the pitiful conditions in the RV industry today.  I have read countless stories of people spending $150,000+ for a motorhome and having it fall apart from underneath of them with no help from either the dealer or the manufacturer.  That does not seem to be the case with the T@B or Pleasant Valley.  Thanks to all of you who contribute to this forum.  Hopefully, I can add some value, as well, as I start my own T@B adventure!