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3 Way Norcold on Propane at High Altitude

jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
edited June 2016 in Air Conditioning & Refrigeration
My fridge is not keeping stuff very cold. As a matter of fact, ice only lasts a couple of days inside of it. I am at 9400 feet right now. Is the warm fridge the result of LP performing more poorly at higher altitudes? This is the first time. The fridge has not kept up with temperatures. It is getting really in the 70's-80's during the day and upper 30's at night. I I have not yet I stalled my fridge fan. 

2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    edited June 2016
    Jenn, I've never camped in the T@B at that high of an altitude. I do know that after the auxiliary fan was installed at Tearstock last year, the fan on the left rarely ran and this is in 90* + temps. It was easier to keep the fridge temps constant after the fan installation, rather than frozen water in the am and thawed in the pm.

    Norcold would probably have better answers about altitude operation than Pleasant Valley (no offense to Pleasant Valley, but Norcold only deals with their products and Pleasant Valley deals wit a bit of everything .)
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    What Verna said...
    Also, I find if the front of the T@B is getting the direct sun of the day, even with a modest 70 outside temp, the fridge does better with the aux fan.

    By the way - I installed mine on the road, pretty easy other than drilling the hole for the switch.
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    T@BuhuraT@Buhura Member Posts: 97
    edited June 2016
    jkjenn said:
    My fridge is not keeping stuff very cold. As a matter of fact, ice only lasts a couple of days inside of it. I am at 9400 feet right now. Is the warm fridge the result of LP performing more poorly at higher altitudes? This is the first time. The fridge has not kept up with temperatures. It is getting really in the 70's-80's during the day and upper 30's at night. I I have not yet I stalled my fridge fan. 

    Hi Jenn, yes. I believe NORCOLD even offers a kit for running the fridge on propane at altitude. I believe the normal operating range is up to about 4k but we've had luck on the edge of 4-5k and haven't worried about it. I always thought it might a problem with keeping flame going as the mixture might be rich (oxygen lean) but it sounds like yours is able to burn. Check norcold manual, I believe it's where I saw it or maybe it's that it recommends 120v over that altitude. Ugh, now I don't recall for sure. I'll look around, too.
    2006 Dutchman T@B T16, 2010 Volvo XC90 3.2 R-Design
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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    Pleasant Valley already includes the high altitude kit. If you have two exhaust vents on the front of your T@B, you have the high altitude kit. I just don't know the exact specs for the definition of " high altitude". 
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    I've not camped at that high of altitude, but can attest about the "frozen morning and thawed evening" syndrome not being such an issue, especially if in direct sun in the afternoon. Much more consistent with the little fan. Since I'm a weekend warrior, the little fan provided by PV isn't a power problem. I think Outback (forgive me if I got the wrong mod-monster), put in low amperage fans that are quieter and more efficient that would suit your power needs - he put 3 in, but one should do fine. Easy to add more if needed.
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,356
    Jenn - Ratkity is correct, I put in a quieter fan in the Norcold itself, replaced the exterior LG vent fan with a quieter unit and then added a second fan to the outside vent for a total of three.  I'm no expert, but I can't see how the extra fans would help at higher altitudes.  They simply act to cool the coils of the fridge. I'm told that EVERY propane device will run poorer at higher altitudes.  And at 9,400 feet, you are definitely up there.
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    Mr_Mrs_GnomeMr_Mrs_Gnome Member Posts: 241
    Sheesh, beginning t wonder if we should get an ARB! Can the Durangoans weigh in?
    '17 Outback S - TV 2016 Chevy Colorado in "Colorful Colorado"
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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    I love my ARB. I did camp at 9,000 ft in my Silver Shadow teardrop and the ARB did just fine on 12 volts in a dry dispersed campground. 

    I keep the ARB in the back seat of the truck and I use the fridge mostly for drinks and veggies.  I keep meat in the ARB.
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    The thing is that the regular fan isn't  even running. Last year I had the frozen thing, but too. I I might give Norcold a call or spring for a night at a CG with electric to see if it makes a differencedifference. 

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    Tabaz Tabaz Member Posts: 2,356
    The fan is connected to a thermosrat that kicks on when it senses heat near the coils. If the countertop is very warm to the touch between the sink and propane stove, then you may have a bad thermostat. Otherwise the system isn't running properly to generate enough heat through the coils. Wish I knew more about this stuff.
    2016 Outback 320 with a 2010 Ford Expedition.
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    source3source3 Member Posts: 142
    edited June 2016
    Jenn, last weekend I camped at 10,800ft.  No issues, but I am running the axillary fan.
    Last year before installing the aux. fan the fridge had a difficult time cooling at 9,300ft, just like you are experiencing.

    Now I run the axillary fan during the day and allows me to keep the Fridge temp. dial at 2.5 and maintains 35 deg F.  Even at 10,800ft.

    I think you already have the high altitude kit as I see two exhaust ports (photos from another thread) on the front of your T@b.  I may be wrong, but I think the two exhuast ports is an indication that the high altitude kit is installed.    


    Andrew P. 
    Durango, CO

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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    edited June 2016
    source3 said:
    Jenn, last weekend I camped at 10,800ft.  No issues, but I am running the axillary fan.
    Last year before installing the aux. fan the fridge had a difficult time cooling at 9,300ft, just like you are experiencing.

    Now I run the axillary fan during the day and allows me to keep the Fridge temp. dial at 2.5 and maintains 35 deg F.  Even at 10,800ft.

    I think you already have the high altitude kit as I see two exhaust ports (photos from another thread) on the front of your T@b.  I may be wrong, but I think the two exhuast ports is an indication that the high altitude kit is installed.    


    Thanks,  @source3! I will get on that auxiliary fan this weekend. I I believe all LG T@bs with this Norcold model have the high altitude kit. I Mine defenitely does. I have the fridge all of thethe way to 5. The ice has helped but it is a real pain. 

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    I've found my temp knob to be irratic - Turned all the way up many times gets me less cold. I've gotten to the point that I never go above 4. Generally 3.5
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    VernaVerna Member Posts: 6,878
    3.5 on the knob is the place since my aux fan was installed. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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    DurangoTaBDurangoTaB Member Posts: 754
    Jenn...do you open & close the fridge much?  Ours stays cool at 9000ft, but is slow to catch up...that's why we got a small Yeti to supplement.

    J.D. & Sue

    Durango, CO    2014/15 S M@xx :  "Dory's HabiT@B"  Keep on swimming...

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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    DurangoTaB said:
    Jenn...do you open & close the fridge much?  Ours stays cool at 9000ft, but is slow to catch up...that's why we got a small Yeti to supplement.
    Not really. I try to grab everything I need at once and minimize open and closing.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    The T@b is at the dealer now, having this issue dealt with, finally. I discovered it cooled fine on A/C but not well on LP. It seems that it will cool, initially, but the fan never kicks on (noticed that last summer) and it warms back up. The dealer was going to call Norcold. The believed it might be the cooling unit. I have to wonder if it the thermistor. I should know, soon.

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    edited February 2017
    Mine's working fine on propane and rarely does the fan kick on. When I had to run on AC, I noticed the fan runs a lot. Will be interesting to see what yours turns out to be. Mine was the circuit board.
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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    I am hoping my fridge saga has come to a happy ending. I dropped my T@b off at the dealer in January. They determined that the cooling unit was bad and it was not repairable. I wa taking it directly to the factory after for the delam issue and they said they would fix my fridge at no extra cost (unbelievable!)

    The factory determined the fridge was not lighting on LP. This is where I am a little confused, because the green light was coming on for me, every time. They determined that the ignition wire was corroded and replaced it and reported that it was now cooling.  I am hoping I was getting false positives on the fridge being lit all summer and that my woes are over. I am hesitant only because I have never hear of such a case. I will test it soon, just so I know before I dive into my 2017 travels. 

    They said I had also cut the 12v supply when I installed the fan, but I am thinking the dealer might have done that because I had the fans working and was getting the green light after I installed the fans. Regardless, the fridge not cooling was going on before I added the fans. I added the fans to try to alleviate the not cooling. 

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    edited March 2017
    The green light just indicates that the thermocouple is hot - it sits in the flame of the pilot light. So it's telling the circuitry that you have a pilot light. Along with the thermocouple probe there's the ignightor and the burner tube. They both look similar to a gas grill with electric ignightor.
    The opposite end of the thermocouple seats in the gas valve and two wires go from the valve to the circuit board (ignightor board). That board opens/closes the gas valve. When open, gas flows to the burner and the pilot lights the burner.
    There's a bunch of other wires connected to the circuit board.
    I'll see if I can find the photos I took when I had trouble.
    Sounds like the first people that tried to fix it didn't test the circuitry. Kind of like the first guy that tried to fix mine. The second guy looked over the wiring and hooked up a multimeter - bad ignightor board.
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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    Pics...

    Burn Box...




    Gas Valve...



    Circuit Board


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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    Thanks - that actually makes me feel much more confident!

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    jkjennjkjenn Member Posts: 6,391
    I tried the fridge today and I am happy to report that I noticed a difference right away! Woohoo!


    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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    NomadNomad Member Posts: 7,209
    Cool
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    RatkityRatkity Member Posts: 3,770
    :open_mouth: Oh, the puns.

    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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