Dutchman CS Galley Hatch Leak Resolution

Grant_K

We’ve been traditional tenters all of our life (50+ years) but with age comes wisdom and we decided there must be away to get away from sleeping on bumpy ground and getting rained out by Mother Nature. Moving up to a small trailer seemed to be the answer though we feared that a tent trailer won’t be the answer as the fabric will often leak over time (validated by all the tent trailers in the camp grounds that are covered with tarps) and other hard shell trailers like the Boler had the kitchen inside which results in food odors trapped inside the trailer – something we want to avoid. Our search continued for the perfect trailer with no real contenders.

Then one summer while waiting at the Newfoundland ferry dock, a T@B CS pulls up – wow we hadn’t seen one of these before! The owner graciously gave us a tour and we were hooked – this was the holy grail of trailers! This was back in 2006.

After some sleuthing we found a dealer in Owen Sound, Ontario (yup, we’re Canadian) who not only carried T@Bs but had the rare clamshell model in stock.  After a visit and some negotiations we came home with a spanking brand new white T@B.

Over the subsequent years we dragged her all over eastern Canada and the New England States where she continued to earn our praise. During this time, T@Bs were a rare sight and it appeared we had one of the few clamshells. Of course never one to leave a good thing alone, we made some modifications to meet our camping style and to address things that broke or gave us problems. Though this was not from the first run of Dutchman CS’s (which had quite a few mechanical issues) we still had some problems – water damage was the major one.

Through this posting I will share with you the problem, symptoms, root cause and ultimate resolution.

Basic Architecture

A core design objective of the T@Bs was to limit the dry weight as much as possible thus light construction materials were used along with extensive use of laminates and foam. This resulted in a nice little package where individual components/panels were carefully integrated together to provide an overall strong unit. Unfortunately some design aspects and materials used left the trailer vulnerable to water seepage.

We never realised we had a problem until after we’d been using the trailer for 3 to 4 years. We had stopped at a gas station to fill up after a very stormy night when I noticed, not just a few drops, but a large flow of water exiting the from the bottom  of the floor by the wheel well. My first reaction was to assume this was left over spray from the wheels, but this couldn’t be the case as the roads were bone dry and the volume of water (at least a litre). Further investigation was required as this looked serious.

Back home I started pulling off trim and poking around here and there. Ultimately I determined the whole of the slopping rear floor panel had been inundated with water, was totally water logged and would require replacing. This was not good news and I'll cover what I did to repair the damage in a later article. For this posting we'll focus on the core problem

We all know that repairing something will only be successful if you address the root cause to the problem, so the question is: where did all of this water come from? Based on the volume of water it was evident that this was more than a small water leak but more akin to someone turning on the garden hose. We carefully examined the whole trailer but could not find any obvious leaks or points for water entry. The other confusing part was the water damage only appeared on the bottom of the trailer, why wasn’t there any damage elsewhere like on the walls or ceiling?

After searching the web, I did find a few postings regarding T@B Clamshell leakage problems that pointed me in a new direction for investigation. Over the course of a couple of years and numerous attempted “fixes” we finally have the problem licked so here is the net outcome of the exercise thus saving you the pain and anguish that we went through!

Root Cause

From what I can ascertain, numerous folks have implemented remediation fixes to address the Dutchman CS Leaking problem without really understanding or resolving the root cause.

The T@B walls are built from a laminate ¼’ Luan plywood, 1” white Styrofoam and an outer metal layer. See Figure 1.

The walls themselves are made up of panels butted side by side, each panel is bordered with 1x1 wood strips. See Figure 1. Of course there is other integrated strapping inside these panels but fundamentally the sides are made up of a series of “panels” placed side by side which are attached to the continuous outer metal wall panel.

The roof has a similar laminate construction and is attached to the side panels via a rabbit joint & screws. See Figure 2. It is the combination of the “panel” design and how the roof is attached to the wall that is the root cause of the problem.

The sad part is, this multi thousand dollar fix could have been prevented if the correct building materials were used to start with – a small $50 investment!

figure 3 is my attempt to illustrate the water flow problem. When it rains, water collects on the roof of the trailer and due to the curved roof design, flows down towards the rear tail gate. Once the rain hits  the top of the tail gate hinge it then changes direction and flows to the outer end of the hinge. The hinge end that it flows to is dictated by which way the trailer may be listing at the time.

The water then flows down the side of the trailer and down by the side of the tail gate. BUT it also seeps under the chrome trim that covers the ceiling/wall joint (Figure 2) then makes it's way down inside the walls to the floor panel. This is where the "panel design" creates a problem. Right by this hinge area there is a join in the side wall where two adjacent side panels join thus providing a clear path for the water to flow from the roof to the floor without leaving any evidence on the wall surface.

Dutchman did follow good design practices in terms of over lapping the ceiling panel over the grey plastic lift gate panel (like what a roofer does with shingles)  but unfortunately the gap between the wall panels was insufficiently sealed thus funnelling all the roof water into the bottom of the trailer. See Photographs 1 & 2. The putty tape that was installed under the chrome trim was meant to provide a seal along the roof/walls joint but unfortunately did not do a good job.

Solution

First step is to remove the chrome trim that covers the roof/wall joint. See Photograph 3. Pull off the black plastic trim that covers the screws, then remove all of the screws. Carefully pry the chrome trim off. you may have to run a knife under the edge of the trim to cut any calking beads, etc. Once off, remove the old putting strip. Of course you can leave it on, I chose to remove it and replace with a new putty strip purchased from the local RV dealer.

Remove any loose material from the roof/wall joint.

Now here is the fix. Purchase a RV RTV calking. It  comes in a caulking gun tube format. The one I used is called PROFLEXRV and is made by Geocel. It's not cheap at $15.00 Cdn/tube but is well worth the investment. Do not use regular household caulking that you find at the hardware stores for it does not have the adhesion and long term flexibility this stuff has.
Now run a healthy caulking bead along the roof/wall seam. Use your finger to work it into the cracks and into the exposed wood surfaces. Work a short section at a time as the RTV skins over in short order. Keep some mineral spirits on hand to dampen your finger as this stuff sticks to everything (which makes it so great!). See Photo 4.

Now replace the chrome trim - the screw holes should line up. Carefully replace the screws ensuring the chrome trim is firmly seated. That should resolve the leaking problem but as an extra measure I ran a fine bead on the RTV down each side of the chrome trim.

Hinge Flap

As you may have noticed in some of the illustrations, my trailer also has a rubber flap that covers the tail gate hinge. Though our caulking has addressed the root cause of the problem, installing the hinge cover help to minimize the amount of water that flows over the end of the hinge.

Summary

The ceiling-to-wall joint on the T@B trailers is a major weak point that allows water to penetrate the walls & floor ultimately rotting out the wooden components, promoting mold growth and compromising the integrity of the trailer. I experienced all of these issues at both ends of the trailer!

If you have a Dutchman CS trailer, even if you haven't experienced any water damage (that you may be aware of), I strongly recommend you spend the weekend to implement this repair. It will give you a peace of mind and will save you thousands of dollars in repairs. I can not comment whether this water issue also applies to the non-clamshell models.

Grant_K

Here are the illustrations. Grant_K

Verna

Just to clarify, this is a 2006 Dutchman T@B?

Grant_K

Hi Verna, This T@B was manufactured in Sept 2006 and we picked it from the dealer in Nov 2007. Must of sat on his lot for a year!
Grant_K

fiddlefoot

We previously had a 2007 Dutchman built clamshell. We bought it used and, after walking in and out of it for a month or so, found the floor to be getting punkier and punkier.  As my husband is a golf pro and we almost can't go anywhere in the summer, we just floored over the old floor so we could give it a try.  We loved the camper.  However, there was suspicion of mold and I was not breathing so well on return.  This was over our head to fix and last winter we went to a small trailer dealer who did repair to see about fixing.  The floor was totally saturated and rotted and the aluminum floor joists, which were very far apart were warped.  They were way to far apart.  In reality, when we towed the trailer down the highway the boxes were holding it together as the floor was gone, the stabilizers had actually pushed through the floor and the lower 24" of the wall structure was rotted.  No one wanted to take it on and we were advised to part it out.  We did sell all of it to a guy in the Shenandoah valley who had the skill to rebuild it and I hope it is working out for him.  We did buy a new 2016 clamshell, not a wooden structure, so that shows how much we loved the 2007, to do it again.  There are things about the 2007 that I prefer, like the fire extinguisher is recessed into a cubby and not in front of the door, and the old windows and wheels had more character.  The new one is far more technical and has a wet bath so I have things to learn, the old one was simple.  I am sure as we travel more we'll enjoy the new things, the bigger tv is nice.
The best news was that the old awning from the 07 fit the 16, yea!

irvingj

Grant, thanks very much for your great explanation & drawings! (A man after my own heart!)

We have a 2004 non-CS model, and I've made some major repairs to our as well, but chose a different route. I THINK my ceiling joints are/were not the issue, but I'll be looking at them closely. Thanks again for a great explanation.

Ratkity

@Grant_K, very nice detailed explanation! For anyone who has been around teardrop campers for a while (home built and including the very first ones restored), this issue has plagued many owners. While your explanation was very specific for your cute Dutchman, this applies to many of the home-builts! Your very detailed drawings and instructions are valuable and I will star it for future use when my teardrop camping group brings up this topic. Thank you again!!

Grant_K

Thank you everyone for your comments and further information regarding this and other problems.
We had noticed our floor was taking on a  bow - flat in the middle, low on the outside edges. I suspect this is due to the frame sagging problem that Fiddlefoot mentioned. I suspect this will have to be addressed at some point. Does anyone have experience in addressing the sagging floor? If so, I'd love to hear how you addressed it.

irvingj

Grant, take a look at my thread re:soft floor; I used aluminum grating beneath the floor, as well as a steel plate by the entry (the worst spot). Both are connected to the frame. My leak seemed to be along the front floor-to-curved front seam. 

I believe this was the thread: 

Repair of Dutchmen "soft floor" problem

And this thread (pics):
This Weekend's Project

Grant_K

Hi Irvingj, Thank you for the link as there was lots of useful information there. I'll need to read it a few times to ensure I understand the details.

I also experienced water damage in the front right corner (door side) of the trailer and addressed that in the same fashion - removed the chrome trim the lathered on the RTV. Of course I thoroughly dried everything first. That seems to have done it as the water has not re-appeared.
Based on the other threads it looks like I caught mine early enough that the repair work is limited. Can't say we've experienced spongy floors but will certainly look out for it. In the mean time I have a metal fabricator friend who I just might drag into the picture to see if something can be added under neath the floor to address the sagging.

Grant_K

Another tid bit of information!
Our normal tow vehicle is a 2010 Chrysler Town & Country but we've been know to also use our 1937 Chevy Street Rod  . .  . . true retro style !

irvingj

Ooo! Oooo! Gorgeous!!

ericnliz

irvingj, Cool ride!

ravinerat

We just purchased our first T@b. A 2004. After I bought it I noticed a small soft ball size springy section on the floor in front of the sink and fridge. When I look underneath I see the previous owner attempted to do a repair but not successful. I'm going to wait until spring now as we are starting to loose our window on weather and temps. The more I can read about the solutions the more I will understand.

RR

Simmons

Does anyone know if this particular problem was fixed before the 2016 T@B CS-S clam shell mfg dates?

We are having rain water entering the curved panel over the rear clam shell kitchen.  We keep the T@B parked with a slight pitch to the right rear, and this corner will leak water when we lift the rear tailgate of the clam shell.   So I expect the water is getting under the seal and running inside the rear curved roof (tailgate) of the clam shell over the rear kitchen.

Does anyone have experience with this?

Thank-you

Miriam & Roger

Northfield, NH

Sharon_is_SAM

@Simmons - Pleasant Valley did redesign the hatch prior to the 2016 model, so, you should have the most current design.  Can you attach a picture?  So, water enters when you lift the hatch?  Check the caulking above the hatch.  We have our TaB at home so I can take a picture if it would help.

Simmons

Simmons

water appears to be entering the hatch kitchen lift roof at some point, it runs down inside the lift gate (hatch roof) and drains out the bottom.  If we open the hatch lift gate after it rains, there is water really running / dripping out of the bottom corner of the hatch roof.  When the rear hatch is closed, the water is running  onto the floor and into the wall footer at the rear of the clam shell kitchen.  See photos above

I would appreciate insights and help on this problem, so we can find the cause and make the correct repairs,

Simmons

Does anyone have any similar leakage in the tail gate of the clam shell?  What did you do to fix it?

Sharon_is_SAM

@Simmons  This is what my 2017 looks like.  It looks like part of the heavy material used to cover the hinged area is eroded and I suspect your caulking has worn and leaked.   Sinceyou do not store it level.the water has taken the path of least resistance.

hotcoldsummer

I rebuilt my water-damaged T@B and after seeing your post, made sure to seal this area—thanks! 

But I’m still getting water in after heavy rain, pooling on the countertop or at base of cabinets. I think it’s the hinge itself. Mind if I ask what material you used for the flap?