Normal Battery Drain or Problem?

jkjenn

I took my T@b to the dealer on Friday because when I was out west, my battery would die when traveling from one spot to another, even though it was being charged by my TV. I did run the fridge on battery while traveling because I was under the impression that the TV would keep the battery charged while driving. This happened between Ouray and Almont, and then again when I drove from Almont to Aspen. The same thing happened when I drove to the dealer (about 4 hours) on Friday. The repair guy at the dealer told me it was normal. I was not convinced it was normal, and they replaced the battery. I don't believe that was the problem as I drove to a campground after, less than two hours, and it was significantly depleted, though not yet dead. What is your experience? Can I not drive all day with the fridge running on battery?

Also, while at the dealer, we could not get the fridge to run on gas - it failed to ignite. They tried a few things to see if anything had become obstructed or if there were any loose connections and determined the fridge had to be replaced.

I have very low confidence that the guys at the dealer are properly troubleshooting. The sales people seem pretty good - a sales guy noticed my spare tire was loose and chased me down so that it could be secured, but the guy I have worked with in terms of my walk-though and repairs treats me in a very condescending and patronizing fashion. I am not easily offended by people who are older and treat women differently, but this guy is more blatantly ignorant. It is like going to the doctor where they ignore half of what you tell them because they think they know what is wrong (or isn't wrong) before you even start talking. I really wish we had a dealer alternative in Western PA or NE OH.

Verna

Jenn, I think your T@B is under warranty, so if I were you, I would be calling the manufacturer of the refrigerator to see what they think.  You'll have to go by what the manufacturer is on the 'frig because it's not listed on the warranty discussion that Mike posted here.

I would check to see how many amps your 'frig should be using.  Then check to see what the amp hours (ah) is on your battery to see if the battery is indeed large enough to handle the amps your 'frig is using. 

I would also have someone (maybe yourself) check with a volt/ohm meter to make sure that the charging wire from your tow vehicle's battery is indeed charging your T@B's battery. 

Lisa33 is an excellent source of information on amp usage and size of battery, and I'm sure she won't mind a private message from you if she doesn't answer this post. 

Good Luck

(I know the LG teardrops come with a 35 ah battery, but I'm not sure what a T@B comes with.  I have a 100 ah battery that I installed this past winter and it has run my 50 qt ARB Fridge/Freezer for over 18 hours a number of times during my 30 day camping trip in July/August of this summer.)

scuba

Was this your first outing with this TV? Is it properly wired? Just a thought.

Verna

Good question, Scuba.  That's why I suggested someone needs to check the power on the charging wire from the tow vehicle.  It could very well be the problem, but without checking it could be one of three things that is wrong.  

jkjenn

No, I have had a few outings with it, including a 17 day trip. The dealer did check the TV wiring to make sure it was charging properly and it was. They also checked the fuses.

I also wonder if this could somehow be connected to the wiring problem I had while out west. The traffic lights onto he T@b stopped working and it was determined to be faulty ground connection on the T@b.

Cheryl74074

We have a new T@b (delivered in June) and we've already put about 9,000 miles on it. 

The same thing has happened with our fridge and battery, and we've learned how to manage it...

If we know that we won't have an electric hookup on arrival, we turn the fridge off while traveling (and there is some condensation that forms but the fridge does stay cold.)

If we know that we WILL have an electric hookup on arrival, we leave it on battery power while traveling.

Our TV has a heavy duty alternator as part of the tow package, so we haven't found that the battery gets completely dead, but it does not get fully charged.

Maybe your TV has a regular alternator, so the battery doesn't get charged at all?

At the dealer when the fridge wouldn't light, did they make sure it was level?

jkjenn

You know, I am going to take a crack at getting it to light at home - he wouldn't even turn the temperature job to the start position  - told me I didn't need to, which I know you do. I will dig out the book and walk through the steps. It did go out on me when I was out west, but I believe that was because my battery was dead and it needs juice to run the fan. This guy also told me that my 12v battery indicator was draining my battery. It shouldn't be draining it all that much.

Does LG end relationships with dealers that have poor service? I am not sure this dealer is the best representative of the company.

jkjenn

By the way, Cheryl - thanks for the feedback - that is exactly what I needed to know - whether what I was experiencing was normal or not.

Wanderoo

Jenn, I have had no problems with my fridge on propane or it cooling on 12V.  I have had it running on 12V (and charging via my TV) for 4 hours at one time and it was great, so I can't comment on its performance "all day."  What you've been experiencing just doesn't seem right. I know that my battery charges when connected to the 7-PIN, so maybe it IS your refer???    :-S

Verna

It sounds like a larger battery might be in your future, Jenn.  I knew the 35 ah battery on the Silver Shadow wouldn't last much overnight for my ARB, so it was in my best interest to go ahead and invest in a larger battery.  John Zamp at Zamp Solar told me that anything over 100 ah would be overkill for my 80 watt Zamp Solar Panel.  If your battery can't keep up with your 'frig, then after you figure out your amperage, you'll be able to figure out how large of a battery you should have.  But, if you can work around the battery usage as Cheryl has described, then you'll be able to wait on upgrading your battery. (Yes, none of us are made of money!!).

RZRBUG

Jenn, wish I knew enough about the system to offer suggestions for solutions.  What I can tell you is that I ran both my refrigerator (two-way Norcold) and my ARB connected to the T@B's battery while towing this summer for up to nine hours with no problem.  The tv was able to keep the battery charged while operating both appliances.  The battery is the original equipment that came with the trailer and I have not done anything special to it, just plug it into the 7-pin and go.

So, my answer to your question would be that it is not normal battery drain, but a problem.  Wish you luck in finding a solution.

Lisa33

The 3-way does use a lot of 12v power compared to the 2-way (something like 11 amps vs 2.4 amps). I wouldn't think it would drain your battery if you have a properly installed charge line from your alternator. I don't know a great deal on the topic, but it doesn't sound normal to me.

Michigan_Mike

I'm with Verna on this and would check the size of the battery.  But I'd also monitor the battery voltage via a small, plug-in cigarette style LED meter that you can find at Walmart or order on Amazon, etc. to see if there is any unusual voltage drop when the refrigerator is running as maybe something is amiss there and it is running longer than it should?  And IF this were a Norcold specific issue it would seem that it would surface here on the forum and become a point of frequent discussion as there are obviously many of these units out there.  And most definitely it could be related to your prior issue Jenn, because a poor ground will create these issues and is at the heart of the majority of lighting, electrical and battery related issues.  A competent technician could isolate and locate the issue for you as many of these issues we create on our own by storing gear in places that wiring runs (e.g., wires are pulled loose from connectors, wiring rubs against metal and shorts out, grounds are not proper, etc.) and with a less than adequate ground the battery might not be receiving a proper charge or there could even be water that has gathered in a splice, etc.  

Experiment with it next trip by plugging it in, periodically checking the voltage reads at stops along the way and unplug it and do the same thing to see if the battery is holding a good charge.  When something like this occurs I normally evaluate the electrical system by starting at the source and working my way out, while checking connections, isolating circuits by pulling fuses, etc. and taking voltage readings to verify that I am getting proper voltage reads.  I don't always take a technician's word for things either and have found in the past that some of these guys aren't the most reputable individuals in the world and will gloss things over as they are stumped, but unwilling to admit it.  Seek another opinion and go from there and consider the above as well, as your problem is probably related to your wiring or a bad battery possibly.

jkjenn

Thanks, everyone. Mike, I do have one of those 12v battery meters and have been checking the charge levels, it drops instantly when you turn the fridge on.

I think between the buzz on the stereo from the ground loop, the poor ground wiring that affected my lights and this, I might need to contact the factory. I definitely got the impression they were putting me off at the dealer because they were stumped.

They also seemed quick to say I needed a new Norcold, truthfully. Also, the guy asked mine if there was anything wrong with my television. When I said, "no" he said he was disappointed because he was hoping I had to get a TV and he could have my old one. Maybe he was joking and maybe he was not. Truthfully, I couldn't tell.

Michigan_Mike

It might be worth the call to the factory and a drive over to Sugar Creek to resolve your problem.   

Lisa33

It is normal for the voltage reading to drop when it is under a load like when you turn the refrigerator on. Does it bounce back up when you turn it off?

jkjenn

Lisa, yes, it does bounce back up after the fridge is turned off.

Normfun

My 2 cents would say that if you are drawing 11 amps with the fridge what is your charge rate?  If it were say 6 amps you would still be draining the battery at 5 amps per hour.  50 ah battery stone dead in 10 hrs. while driving and charging.  100 ah battery would still be down to 50%.  You would really need to know the charge rate to get the right numbers.  If the vehicle charge can't keep up add some solar maybe.

jkjenn

I checked my battery tonight and it is a 100ah battery. Size should not be a big issue. I might need to check the charge rate of my Jeep.

Also, had the chance to try the Norwood on gas and it worked. The guy at the dealer did not believe me when I told him it had to be on start to ignite.

jkjenn

I plugged my little battery meter into my Jeep and am getting about 14.4 from it. Theoretically, that should be enough juice to charge the T@b, I believe. The battery in my TV was replaced in July so the posts should be clean enough. The guys at the dealer did check the charge coming from the 7 way connector from the TV, too.

Also, does the converter fan run non-stop for everyone else when plugged into shore power?

I think at this point, I have resolved to call the factory when I get a few minutes.

Verna

Jenn, the converter fan is a cooling fan just for the converter. It should stop after just a few minutes. Yes, a call to Pleasant Calley would definitely get you more answers.

Michigan_Mike

Hey Jenn, just a thought here, but go into your trailer and make sure that the small black toggle switch (if your T@B is designed as the Little Guys are) next to your A/C unit is off.  I know that I kept hearing this non-stop fan noise in my trailer and it turned out that I'd left my A/C vent cooling fans on.  That might be far fetched but could be a reason that you are hearing a cooling fan or what you believe is the converter fan and maybe that is running your battery down too.  

jkjenn

Thanks for the suggestion, Mike. I ran out and took a look and saw no black switch. I even unplugged the a/c and the fan was still running.

Michigan_Mike

Evidently you have something on, like a refrigerator, etc. that is drawing current and putting enough load on the converter to activate the cooling fan?  You could pull some fuses and help to eliminate and find the problem that way.  

Here is a clue that could solve your problem

jkjenn

So after some more research I have discovered a couple of things. First, the hum was not the converter, it was the Progressive surge protector. When I called Progressive, they said a little hum was normal. It is not a loud hum, so that is fine. I just don't recall the hum before. These surge protectors have lifetime guarantees, so if it gets louder, I will be replacing it.

The second conclusion I have drawn is that it seems that the drain problem is related to the three way fridge. It appears most with the three way fridge experience the bigger drain. That really should be something that is part of the dealer walk through. I am OK with that now that I know this. I am going to test on my next outing to see if the battery keeps its charge without the fridge being on. Seems like the trick is to get it good and cold before you depart and turn it off while driving For longer days, I will probably need to use some reusable ice packs to help. I sometimes put in 10-12 hour driving days. I would still choose the three-way.

I also read, although it was not my model, that Norcold require a pretty strong battery charge to ignite the gas fridge, which might have contributed to the dealer being unable to light it. Again, this is something dealers should know.

Michigan_Mike

The forum would be a great learning ground and resource tool for some dealers for sure!  

TaBFan

I just looked up the specs on your TV (2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara). Standard equip was  a 140Amp Alternator which should be plenty.

It sounds like there is excellent info, very helpful people on this forum, and you are narrowing in on this problem......Jerry

jkjenn

TabFan - you are correct The forum is definitely  a tremendous help.

I am leaving tomorrow for an overnight dry camping trip, so I should have a good chance to test without running the fridge. It is a four hour drive, so I am very confident that everything will stay plenty cool without power.

I also might have the chance to test the Alde. I am going to be camping above 4,000', which is fairly high for the east coast. I am really looking forward to this even if it is just overnight. I think most people will clear out mid-day tomorrow and it is possible I could end up with he campground to myself.... me and the bears, that is.

jkjenn

So, I traveled with the fridge off and the battery was fine when I arrived at camp. So, the issue is that the three-way draws significantly more power than the other fridges. That being said, it ran on propane like a champ. I guess this is a closed issue!

I might, someday, add a second battery to help with long trips. I don't like the idea of leaving food in the fridge for 8-12 hours and no refrigeration.

Normfun

Just another thought. If the charge wire is not a large enough guage the voltage drop in the wire when under load from the frige may not leave a high enough voltage to charge the battery. Example at the vehicle battery you might have 14 volts. At the fridge there is 12.2. But with no fridge the trailer battery gets 13.8. In other words the fridge sucks the voltage down too low. You might run an external 6 or 8 guage wire and check the voltage drop again. Norm

jkjenn

Sandra yes, I had the dealer install the charge wire when I bought the T@b and had them check it when I returned for service.

Norm, I had thought about that suggestion, too. I am not sure I want to draw much more from the battery or alternator. I admit I don't really know a ton about how the battery and operator work, but the last thing I need is to be at a remote campground and have a dead battery in the TV. If I traveled with two batteries, theoretically, I could use one to jump there TV in the event it was dead.