Normal Battery Drain or Problem?

Nomad

Jenn - You could do like we do here in MN where you never know when you'll need awinter  jump start and get small jump-start power pack - Some have a small compressor built in also - I've carried one for years... ‎www.bing.com/images/search?q=jump+start+power+packs&qpvt=jump+start+power+packs&FORM=IGRE

jkjenn

PXLated - yeah, I guess. I have an air compressor for airing up/down my Jeep tires when I go off road. I think I could get another `100ah battery for about the same price, though.

Michigan_Mike

Good points above and I agree with Sandra and Norm.....  And as Sandra noted, unless you have a dedicated feed wire from the battery back to the receiver plug-in point your battery isn't going to be receiving a charge and will eventually run down via the frig demand.  .  

• Check the voltage with the trailer unplugged from the tow vehicle.  
  
• Plug in the trailer to your tow vehicle, start up the vehicle and see what the voltage is reading then.  The voltage should jump significantly and indicates you are receiving a charge from your car.  
• And as Norm noted, check the wire size and note his suggestions above.  

mickietucs

I just came across this site (link below) and was trying to read up on battery drain issues when towing as mentioned here in several discussions (and relation to wiring and wire gauge). Mike or anyone else - do you know what gauge wire LG uses? The article states "unfortunately, most trailers use undersized wiring for the tow vehicle charge lines" and that AGW 4 or 8 might be best. Same for a TV - that most use 10 and upgrading would be beneficial. I wonder when requesting a tow package on the vehicle if asking for an upgrade on the wiring is feasible and beneficial.

Elsewhere it states "The fridge can drain your trailer battery in just a matter of a few hours – and if your tow vehicle lacks a battery isolator circuit you could find that battery dead as well after a long lunch." Is this "battery isolator circuit" something one has to ask for on a TV?

Also mentioned is the wiring for the 12v aux jack and most trailers are inadequately wired. He mentions that issue in his previously owned (I think) T@B CS (not sure of the year). Perhaps LG has upgraded their wiring?

Anyway, here's a link in case anyone is interested - http://www.technomadia.com/2008/06/rv-solar-electric-wiring-issues/

Michele

Michigan_Mike

Michele,

You would have your questions best answered by calling Ed Kauffman at the factory because I can't answer all of them.  But I would agree, a heavier charge wire running back to the electrical plug on a tow vehicle is preferred and I'd think an AWG 8  would suffice.  

When you wire in an isolator for the battery there is a wiring diagram and they specify the wire size to be used.   A trailer hitch company could wire the isolator in or even a local garage.  It's basically a switch that isolates the battery in use from the other battery to eliminate draining it.  It's a good idea to have one and eliminates having to unplug from the tow vehicle every time you use the trailer battery.   

mickietucs

Mike - thanks and will delve deeper into the subject, especially when I get the TV. Either when they install the hitch or I have a good local mechanic that I may talk to about an isolator. 

Michigan_Mike

I catually have one out in the garage and need to take some time and install it.  I don't have a lot of space in the engine compartment of my Equinox but will figure it out and hope to get this done sometime next week after I return from a fall color tour in Northern Michigan....  I'm leaving this morning!

mash2

Note:  The Norcold 3 way refrigerator draws 11+ amps when using DC current only (based on their literature).  Any inefficiency in TV hookup seems like it would lead to significant draw on the batteries... it is not clear that your TV alternator can keep up with the demands of a 3-way.  I've got a 2 way that uses 2-3 amps and has no issues -- I've got solar that is permanently installed and I arrive at sites with a full battery, even though I run the frig flat out when I'm traveling.  Given the drain of the 3 way when running on DC current, it makes sense that the system may be draining battery power.  (This seems like a common issue on the Casitas forums as well).  Propane access helps when boon docking, but a good solar system would generally overcome the DC drain on a 2 way frig (I estimate the 2 way uses 30+ amps daily and my solar is sized for at least 25 amps in Dec. and Jan. but generally at 50+ amps excepting winter).  I should note that I spent a week in Death Valley and remained above 90% capacity the entire time (I've got 200 Amps in my batteries).  This summer I spent 2 months traveling with several periods of boon docking that lasted in excess of a week.... with no need for exterior charging.   

Again, the 3 way frig is rated at about 11 amps in DC usage .... this will tax your system whenever you need to draw DC power to operate.    

Austingal

We had the same problem happen this summer.  TV battery was dead by the time we got to campsite after 6 hours of driving and running the fridge.  Turns out that the in-line fuse on the TV battery was only 10 amps (installed when we had the hitch installed), so everytime the 3 way fridge was set to battery mode, the load would blow the fuse.  While the trailer lights would continue to work, it kept the auxiliary power from the TV 7 pin plug from working, hence the fridge was really just running off the trailer battery the whole time, and the trailer battery was never really charging.

So, check your TV in-line fuse.  It should be at least a 20 amp fuse, but could be a 30 or 40 amp fuse.

jkjenn

Austin Gal - thanks - I have a 20 amp fuse, but I will say that I had a completely dead battery on my TV on one of my first longer trips the morning after I arrived (and I had not left any lights on.)

jkjenn

Here is the status as of today. I called Ed this morning and he said that the battery drain did not sound normal. He recommended that I check and getting reading of the voltage from the 7 pin connector. I went up to the local AutoZone and the reading was 12.94 with the TV turned off. I have no doubt it is well above 13.0 when the TV is turned on. He also recommended that I check what gauge wire was used for the charge wire. I called the dealer and tech says they use 8-10# wire for all of their RVs. I left a message with Ed a few minutes ago and am awaiting a return call.

Ed was surprised when I mentioned others on the forum expressed that they were having the same problem. He was surprised that no one else had called and indicated that he would prefer if they did so that he can identify and solve any problem that might exist. So, if you are also having the same problem with your LG T@b, please give Ed a call (330) 852-4811

jkjenn

I picked up a higher quality voltmeter and checked the 7 pin with the Jeep turned on and it shows above 14.0, so it hard to believe the Jeep could be the problem. I also noticed today, that while plugged into 120v at many house (Progressive showing getting between 116-118v) that when I turn the light on above my sink, the cigarette lighter shows a big draw and that my battery won't; retain a full charge. Even with the bigger drop, the Progressive shows without the fridge I am drawing 1 amp. So, I am wondering if I am plugged ink why is my battery dropping when I use lights? It sounds to me like the converter fails to charge the battery adequately. Does that sound correct?

I have 2 calls in to Ed and awaiting his callback. I will try again this week.

jkjenn

Update: I finally was able to get back in touch with Ed. I am bringing the T@b to Sugar Creek in early Feb and leaving it there for them to take a look at it.

FYI: they are going to be moving into the new factory at the end of Dec (I think he said Christmas week.) This must be a crazy busy time for them as they get ready to move. I would also imagine they try to crank out a lot of T@bs over the winter in anticipation of spring sales.

Michigan_Mike

jkjenn said:

I picked up a higher quality voltmeter and checked the 7 pin with the Jeep turned on and it shows above 14.0, so it hard to believe the Jeep could be the problem. I also noticed today, that while plugged into 120v at many house (Progressive showing getting between 116-118v) that when I turn the light on above my sink, the cigarette lighter shows a big draw and that my battery won't; retain a full charge. Even with the bigger drop, the Progressive shows without the fridge I am drawing 1 amp. So, I am wondering if I am plugged ink why is my battery dropping when I use lights? It sounds to me like the converter fails to charge the battery adequately. Does that sound correct?

I have 2 calls in to Ed and awaiting his callback. I will try again this week.

You should be able to get some voltage readings off the converter I'd think?  And have you taken the battery out and had the cells checked on it, could it be a defective battery?  I would try charging it off a car battery charger, unhooked from the converter.  You should be able to get and record voltage reads if you have a decent LED tester and eliminate things that way.  Occasionally the battery cells go bad and create issues like this.  I've seen it happen before...  

Verna

Yup, my 2 1/2 year old battery in my Escape went bad the day before I left for Eashington, D.C. It happens. The battery would not keep a charge. After the 2nd time of having to jump it in 3 days, I got a new battery.

jkjenn

Michigan_Mike said:

jkjenn said:

I picked up a higher quality voltmeter and checked the 7 pin with the Jeep turned on and it shows above 14.0, so it hard to believe the Jeep could be the problem. I also noticed today, that while plugged into 120v at many house (Progressive showing getting between 116-118v) that when I turn the light on above my sink, the cigarette lighter shows a big draw and that my battery won't; retain a full charge. Even with the bigger drop, the Progressive shows without the fridge I am drawing 1 amp. So, I am wondering if I am plugged ink why is my battery dropping when I use lights? It sounds to me like the converter fails to charge the battery adequately. Does that sound correct?

I have 2 calls in to Ed and awaiting his callback. I will try again this week.

You should be able to get some voltage readings off the converter I'd think?  And have you taken the battery out and had the cells checked on it, could it be a defective battery?  I would try charging it off a car battery charger, unhooked from the converter.  You should be able to get and record voltage reads if you have a decent LED tester and eliminate things that way.  Occasionally the battery cells go bad and create issues like this.  I've seen it happen before...  

I have changed my car battery since I started having this problem (July) and the dealer changed the T@b battery. Ed is suspicious that my electrical issues could all be related (I had the 12v exterior light - bad ground wire issues, ground loop on my TV/Stereo.)

jkjenn

I was a little disappointed with the news from the factory, yesterday. The wiring all checked out OK and Marvin said he believed that the drain is due to the higher pull from the 3 way compared to the amperage sent from the TV. He said he believed that the pull was a little over 15amps, this why it is more noticeable on longer trips.

I will be experimenting with a couple of different things, including leaving it off for 50% of the trip, or so.

When leaving from home, I can pre-chill and put some frozen water bottles inside to help. It's a little trickier with longer, multi-stop trips where I am reloading every few days.

I might try to afix a solar panel to either the storage basket or tongue to also offset the draw, but I will need to think more about that.

Nomad

Jenn, we have the same setup - T@B/3-way/Wrangler... When traveling (if the fridge has been pre-cooled) I start out with the fridg off. When I make a gas or potty stop I check the battery monitor in the T@B and if ok, turn it back on. At each stop I check the monitor and either leave on or turn off for the next leg. Fridge seems to seal the cold in well enough that I've never needed to supplement with ice.
I usually limit myself to 300-350 a day with a stop every couple hours.

jkjenn

That sounds like a workable strategy. Thanks, PXLated.

I usually have 2 longer days on the front and back of the trip. I am considering some different options, though, to break those up more. It's tough when you have a limited number of vacation days.

DurangoTaB

Jenn...I have the same problem as you with my Tacoma (w/ tow package).  I tried several times to chill the fridge under tow, only to discover the fridge has such a huge amp draw (after all, the TV basically only provides a trickle charge that I'd get to the campground with a not so cold fridge and a dead T@B battery.  So I take many's advice and put a frozen gallon of water in overnight, leave it in there for the journey, then turn on the elec or propane at the campsite.  I also got a small Yeti cooler which really helps...doesn't need ice for 3 days...

ChanW

There's a mod somewhere, probably on the Yahoo group, that shows how to make the 3 way use the fridge's thermostat when running on 12v. 

As it is, the fridge is on constantly in 12v mode, no matter what the temperature is inside the fridge. And the draw is 11A, continuously!

I ran our Tab battery down to nothing a couple of times (thank goodness we had a battery isolator protecting the Tacoma battery), and completely restoring the charge on the road is tough, unless you camp somewhere with electric hookup.

I don't remember how complicated the mod is, but I think it'd be worth it.

jkjenn

DurangoTaB said:

...  I also got a small Yeti cooler which really helps...doesn't need ice for 3 days...

Of course, I recently sold my Yeti cooler because of the fridge...and because the one I had was too big.

Leaving from home I can do the frozen jug, but it will only stay frozen, so long. ⛄

Nomad

Frozen jugs take up too much space for me - Space I need for food. That fridge is pretty dinky.
As I mentioned, if the fridge is totally cooled down before I leave, I haven't had a problem turning it off for a stretch.
There have been a few rare times I've arrived even after doing my routine where the battery has still been low - It's been so few times I've written them off to anomalies.

kathyinca

When we picked up our T@B recently the dealer indicated that some people run the refrigerator on propane while driving to preserve battery. After driving one time using battery I can certainly understand why......just wondering if anyone else has run on propane while driving. Is it safe to do?

jdargis

It's your decision and your comfort level.  We have had 3 motor homes and now our T@B, over 14 years of rving.  We always travel with the refrigerator on gas, we always take the precaution when filling up, to make sure the refrigerator is off.  No pilot light to ignite any fumes.  

You have to make sure to follow all laws, such as certain tunnels require the propane to be shut off.  A large percentage of most motorhome owners travel with the propane on.  A lot of times when traveling in a hot climate, we would start the generator to run the roof air conditioner to cool the unit down, when we would stop to make a meal.

The 40 day trip we took last year we used about a third of our propane, obviously we switched to electric when hooked to shore power.

Once again, it is your decision to make! Also, this is an ongoing debate among rvers.

Jeff

jdargis

I need to correct a term on my previous remarks, our refrigerators use a spark igniter, not a pilot light.  I meant to say the open flame is from the cooling unit.
Sorry.

jkjenn

kathyinca said:

When we picked up our T@B recently the dealer indicated that some people run the refrigerator on propane while driving to preserve battery. After driving one time using battery I can certainly understand why......just wondering if anyone else has run on propane while driving. Is it safe to do?

My dealer had suggested this to me, as well. I am not comfortable that I would remember to turn it off when I need to.

Nomad

Aren't you supposed to be level when running the fridge on propane? My understanding anyway.
If so, does that mean you'd have to be on a fairly level road to do that?
That'd eliminate 80% of the time for me.

ChanW

I've found that the 3-way fridge is really picky about needing be level. Some scoff at the idea.

jdargis

Absorbtion refrigerators work by gas circulating through pipe and coils, heated and then rises to drop from top to bottom as it cools, the unit needs to be level for it to it to flow evenly as there is no pump.  My understanding, is the disruption of the road surface, which creates movement, keeps it flowing.

What you have to remember, if you stop, while towing to sightsee, try to make sure you are level, or shut the refrigerator off.