PD 4135 Installation

Bayliss

Nice, clean installation @Maxcamp8, especially the routing and organization of the wiring inside the power center.  I am going to be installing the PD power center in the near future, so I appreciate the photos and comments.  I have also made note of the metal NM clamps you used.  I had seen someone else suggest that, so you verified that it is something I will need to do.

Maxcamp

We were concerned whether the PD4135 cooling fan circuit was working, as I could not get it to turn on even using a heat gun during installation test.  We just did a five day trip at 24-58 deg. F, propane heat got the cabin up to 70 and the underseat box even warmer.  The inverter fan came on briefly only a few times, we woke up due to the unexpected sound.  So it works, unlike the WEFCO it does not run often.  

MarkAl

Question: With NuCamp now installing the Li option version of the converter. What is the reason to move to this PD version? For simplicity I was planning to buy the new version and replace it. I have been told it's easier than switching brands?

Maxcamp

Battleborn informed us the Wefco will not charge appropriately for Battleborn LiPoFe batteries, and recommended the PD.  Cant comment on other types or brands. 

MarkAl

@Maxcamp8 would like to know the details, generally the chemistry and BMSs would charge similarly I thought. Sure like to know the details.

Maxcamp

I don't want to steer anyone wrong.  My understanding is that the various voltage settings ("profiles") of charge/float/balance are different on the PD4135 and the Wefco chargers.  Battleborn advised that the Lithium-enabled Wefco still would not achieve battery cell balancing for their LiPoFE batteries specifically.  Have the details somewhere but not at hand.  Best to check with your supplier.  Battleborn was very helpful in two separate calls.

Bayliss

@MarkAI, I can't specifically answer your question, but Battle Born does promote (and sell) power centers made by Progressive Dynamics.  However, I checked their website and it appears that they do not carry the PD4135KW2BV (35-amp) model.  Although I have not yet had the time available to install the PD4135KW2BV in my trailer, I opted to purchase one rather than upgrading to the WFCO WF-8735-PB-LiS.  I went that route based primarily on what I had read regarding Battle Born's recommendation.

I have included below a photo of the internal components of the PD4135KW2BV to show the size of the copper coil wrapped around the transformer.  It appears to be more robust (thicker copper) than that on a similar transformer that I have seen depicted in a photo of the WFCO WF-8735P (which is what I currently have in my 2019 320 S.)  I don't know how it appears in the newer WFCO WF-8735-PB-LiS, but that power center should work fine for you.  Also, whether you upgrade to the lithium-capable WFCO power center, or switch to the Progressive Dynamics version, there really is no significant difference in the wire connections.  Further, either device should fit the current cabinet opening.

Regardless, here's what Battle Born's website states regarding selecting a power center that is compatible with their batteries:

"To determine whether your devices are compatible with BB batteries, take a look at the manual for each component and look at the specifications. If the specs in the manual match up with the charging voltage: 14.2-14.6 V and the float voltage: 13.6 V or lower, they are compatible with our batteries.  

·        If you can adjust settings (such as a custom profile) on your devices to various charging and float voltages, then simply change the settings to match ours.  

·        You are also more than welcome to give us a call at (855) 292-2831 or contact us at info@battlebornbatteries.com."

I suppose the best way get a direct answer to your specific question(s) would be to give Battle Born (or Progressive Dynamics) a call.

MarkAl

Thank you all! This has been good information. I'll compare the numbers when proceeding. I also have not been impressed with the WFCO's Lead Acid charging and why I primarily use the Victron's solar controller to keep the batteries charged. So I may not bother changing as we rarely use the converter, only the rare times we hook up at a campground. Simply changing to the newer model seemed easier but really using my 100 watt at 20V supply into my remote solar input provides all the power I need while camping and to keep the batteries topped if I don't want to bother or have solar input, I've never used the AC while camping.

tomtek

I installed the PD4060KV and upgraded wires to support the higher charge currents.   Its been fantastic a great update and has additional 12volt fuse circuits to break up some of the overlapping devices that were on the WFCO.    60 amps of lithium friendly charging is nice when you need to get things charged up more timely.  I am happy with the PD charging seems to work well.  

Maxcamp

correction to fuse assignments:

AC 120V BREAKERS 1. 30A MAIN 2. 15A CONVERTER/GFI’S 3. 20A ALDE HEAT 4. 20A AIR8 CONDITIONER 5. 20A MICROWAVE

DC 12V FUSES 1. 40A REVERSE CKT DETECTION 2. 7.5A overhead lights/ AIR8 INTERFACE 3. 15A TV/RADIO 4. 15A USB CONVERTER OUTLET 5. 20A FRIDGE 6. 15A FAN/perimeter lights/ TOILET/CO DETECT/ 7. NOT USED

SLJ

"here's what Battle Born's website states regarding selecting a power center that is compatible with their batteries:"To determine whether your devices are compatible with BB batteries, take a look at the manual for each component and look at the specifications. If the specs in the manual match up with the charging voltage: 14.2-14.6 V and the float voltage: 13.6 V or lower, they are compatible with our batteries."

By their own specs I don't see a problem with the WFCO 8735-AD direct replacement...



Battle Born batteries have an on-board battery management system (BMS). There shouldn't be a problem.

Bayliss

As part of my lithium/solar upgrade, last month I replaced the factory-installed WFCO 8735P power center with the Progressive Dynamics (PD) 4135KW2B power center, but I have not had the opportunity to share what I did.  The following information simply adds to what others have already posted, but it may be helpful to those who decide to replace their power center/converter, regardless of the brand:

The AC side of my power center has one 30A main breaker and 5 branch circuits (2 @ 15A and 3 @ 20A.)  Before detaching the three tandem (dual) AC circuit breakers, I labeled them as 1, 2 and 3 from left to right (when facing the breakers.)  As I removed each breaker's corresponding black (hot/”+”) wire, I labeled the wire to identify whether it was connected to the left or right half of the dual breakers (i.e., 1L, 1R; 2L 2R; 3L 3R.)  This made it easier to ensure that I reconnected the correct black wire to its corresponding breaker.  I used blue painter’s tape to wrap around the individual wires and marked the tape.

Like @Maxcamp8, I installed metal non-metallic (NM) clamp type wire connectors to secure the Romex wiring at the back of the power center (you need one 3/4” clamp and three 3/8” trade size for 1/2” knockout clamps.)  I marked those clamps as A, B, C and D and similarly labeled each of the incoming wires with the same letter designations so that I would reinsert the Romex wires through the original openings.  I chose to use the same routing of the Romex as nüCamp, primarily because there is not a lot of slack in the wiring.  When I attached the NM clamps, I angled/turned them slightly and oriented the screw heads so that I could easily tighten them with a screwdriver and also to avoid the threaded ends of the screws from potentially interfering with the opposing screws.

And, as @Maxcamp8 mentioned, the factory wiring was a jumble of wires, so I cleaned that up in a very similar mannerto his.  To keep the wiring organized, I first connected the black (hot/+) wire to each circuit breaker.  Next, I connected its corresponding ground (bare copper) wire to the ground buss bar, followed by connecting its corresponding neutral (white) wire to neutral buss bar.  That process resulted in a very clean and organized installation.

For the DC circuits, I installed a Blue Sea Systems 30-amp 8 Circuit Terminal Block https://www.bluesea.com/products/2508/Terminal_Block_30A_-_8_Circuit (available from Amazon) to make a clean (and easily removable) connection between each of the power center DC circuits to their associated trailer circuits.  I attached the terminal block to the inside wall of the electrical compartment, between the PD power center and the adjacent 110V AC outlet.  I attached an insulated 12-10 Ring Terminal (for a #8-#10 terminal stud) to each of the DC circuit wires from the power center.  I do not currently have a need for the “002” red wire (30A) from the power center, so I capped it off and wrapped it with a short piece of electrical tape.  Also, before removing the WFCO power center, I cut the DC circuit wires so that I left a short length of each of the original color-coded wires (leaving those short lengths connected to the T@B wiring.)  This preserved the WFCO color-coding scheme before connecting them to the new PD wires (their "001" and "002" are red; "003" thru "007" are black.)  I then attached a ring terminal connector to the end of each of those wires as well.

Lastly, as depicted below, I connected the ring terminal connectors for each circuit to their respective sides of the terminal block.  I used a fine point black Sharpie pen to label each connector (#1 for the 12V "+" wire to the battery and #3 through #7 for the branch circuits.)  I left the #2 and #8 terminals empty for future use, if needed.  I did not make any changes to the original wiring butt splice/crimp connectors used by nüCamp since I have not had any issues with them.  However, for future reference and troubleshooting, I made a written record of nüCamp's color-coded wiring scheme for each of the trailer's DC circuits.  Each circuit has a differently colored wire, but they all include a white-stripe running the length of each wire.

Here's a close-up photo of the lithium ("S1") switch on the converter side of the power center (red arrow in the photo.)  As depicted, you slide the switch up to the "ON" position when using the converter with a lithium battery.

And, as has previously been mentioned, the WFCO cabinet opening is about 1/2" larger than that needed for the PD power center.  Therefore, I added a strip of wood to reduce the opening.  I attached it with wood glue and a couple screws.

Completed installation showing the location of the terminal block:

 

Spectre9

Regarding the 12v you found on lines without fuses - this also happens with the WFCO converter and is related to the lamps that indicate a fuse is blown. If you hook up an actual load like a resister you won’t see a lot of current on circuit with a blown fuse it is just a floating voltage from the circuit testing if fuse is blown.

jebelhafit

 I have a 2015 U-shaped T@B and am also replacing WF-8735 with a PD-4135KW2B.   Many thanks for the detailed installation guide, it was most helpful.  I have a question  concerning the 30A F6 (for battery and slide out used) connector on the WF-8735.  I am not sure what this wire is used for.  I do not have a battery switch in the front and do not have a wire from the PD4135 to connect to it.  Is this connection left open?  
Thanks,  Gary

MuttonChops

jebelhafit said:
. . . a question  concerning the 30A F6 (for battery and slide out used) connector on the WF-8735.

Based on reviewing their Installation Guides.
WFCO and PD4100-series connect to the trailer battery differently.

On the PD4100 you were instructed to connect the Battery +12V Side to PD4100 " red 001 Battery Pos (+) wire " which is (internally) wired into the 40A Reverse Polarity Protection Fuse.  On the WFCO the Battery is connected to the F6 30A Fuse position (also internally connected to 40A).  The PD4100 does not have that extra 30A fuse.

Here are typical WFCO VDC Wiring:

Therefore, it seems the WFCO F6 Trailer Wire should be placed on the PD-4100 "red 001" position/wire.

Bayliss

@jebelhafit, I sent you a very lengthy response on this, but as you will read in that response, @MuttonChops is correct about the "001" (F1 40A slot connection.)

Also, as per a conversation I had with a Progressive Dynamics tech, DO NOT connect the red "002" (F2 slot) to the battery.  That is a separate 30A circuit that is available, if needed, for a higher capacity circuit (maximum 30A.)  F3-F7 (black wires numbered "003" through "007") are for maximum 20A circuits.