hot water

drpprmt

WARNING.  Ya might want to be a little careful in adjusting the hot water mix valve.  I turned mine full counter clockwise, set the Alde panel to hot water boost, and half hour later burned my hand real good.  I didn't measure the temp. but I didn't have to.  It  was way too hot for normal use.  I am backing the mix valve back a bit.  If you want it in the full counter clockwise position be a bit more careful than I was. 

Nomad

Those of us without the mixer valve discovered that the first time we used the sink - It gets really hot :-)

dsatwork

I had the opposite issue today when testing out my systems, I had to turn mine up all the way and and it wasn't hot enough. So I put it on high but definitely would not scald anyone.

However, what I don't understand is how the hot water comes out. I know that sounds silly, but hear me out.

I thought that since it was hot water was heated separately from the fresh water in its own holding tank, then it would require the pump to be on and working for any hot water to come out. While testing out my systems and flushing the pink antifreeze from the freshwater tank, I ran the pump dry and over filled the fresh water tank causing the pump to stop all together. I thought I could get it going by hooking up the city water and running the faucet. While doing that I was running cold water and hot water, so I thought I had fixed it because hot water was coming out. Nope, when I removed the city water connection, the pump was completely dry and couldn't move an ounce of water. So, now I'm confused. Does, running the city water pressurize the system enough to run cold and hot water?

ScottG

I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but this might help...

Just like in your house, the hot water tank is pressurized from the cold water side. Cold water is forced into the Alde from one side, gets heated, and hot water is forced out the other when you open the hot water tap.

The cold water side can be pressurized by either a city water connection, or by the pump drawing water from fresh water storage tank. Connecting to city water does not prime the pump or fill the tank, as they are on a separate loop.

It sounds to me like your issue may be getting the pump to prime properly. It's a common issue and has been discussed here in several threads. Some have had to resort to creative solutions. 

drpprmt

look at the filter.  Sometimes when the winterizing fluid gets old it starts to congeal and will plug the filter.  I have had this happen and it is very difficult to clear as it keeps clogging until all the antifreeze gets out.  Good luck.

dsatwork

ScottG said:

I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but this might help...

Just like in your house, the hot water tank is pressurized from the cold water side. Cold water is forced into the Alde from one side, gets heated, and hot water is forced out the other when you open the hot water tap.

The cold water side can be pressurized by either a city water connection, or by the pump drawing water from fresh water storage tank. Connecting to city water does not prime the pump or fill the tank, as they are on a separate loop.

It sounds to me like your issue may be getting the pump to prime properly. It's a common issue and has been discussed here in several threads. Some have had to resort to creative solutions. 

Thank you, that is exactly what I was asking. I mistakenly thought that if the pump was needed to get the hot water tank filled, it was needed to get the hot water out. That's actually great that it works that way. Because I could totally see a scenario where I have filled the fresh water and got air bubbles in system. But there is still water in the hot water storage tank and @Sandiegogal needs to take a shower, but I don't have time to bleed the system before we get on the road. Of course we would need city water for this scenario, but we try to make sure we stay at places that have electric and that usually means water too. At least it does out here in the southwest. Thanks for the thorough explanation and I hope others will benefit from the discussion. Oh, I tried a couple of the forum solutions to get the air bubbles out, then remembered that I still had the left over hose from the original faucet. The piece I cut it off the original faucet had an 18" piece of hose with the 1/2" MIP fitting on one end. So, I turned the pump off and removed the hose from the cold water supply line in the compartment under the sink. Then, I turned the pump back on and sucked on the hose until the pump was primed. Pretty easy fix if you have piece of hose that gives you access. That hose is going into the Tab Garage, the area under the driver side seat behind the wheel well in the back.

ericnliz

dsatwork, Re-purpose, re-purpose, re-purpose. 'Ya just never know when that little do-dad 'ya took off to replace with something else is gonna come in handy. Drives Liz crazy all the "stuff" I hang on to for later, but when I use it, she always says "Where did you get that from?" 

dsatwork

ericnliz said:

dsatwork, Re-purpose, re-purpose, re-purpose. 'Ya just never know when that little do-dad 'ya took off to replace with something else is gonna come in handy. Drives Liz crazy all the "stuff" I hang on to for later, but when I use it, she always says "Where did you get that from?" 

I can't tell you how many times I have succumbed to throwing something out just need it a few weeks later.....there wasn't enough time to for it to make to the I'll never use that pile.

dsatwork

@ScottG OK, so we just went on our 1st trip where we had full hookups and when we got there, I started filling the fresh water tank and got distracted with some very nice retired ladies were just enamored with our T@b and started helping us set up camp. So, I lost track of time and it started overflowing and didn't dawn on me that it may have gotten air bubbles in the line and stopped the flow from the fresh water tank. Since we were on city water connection, I didn't think anything about it for the first day. Then I noticed the fresh water was still on 100% and we had been doing dishes and heated water for showers. But, the fresh water tank stayed at 100% and I thought I had a sensor problem. When we got home I tried to fill the tank and it was still 100% full. Went back to the faucet to try the water with the 12 volt system and the water pump on and no water at all. So, that's how I found out that my fresh water system had not been working on the whole trip. But we did have hot water the whole time. But what really is perplexing, is that I thought the hot water was heated from the fresh water tank and without any flow there would be no hot water. So, clearly that is not the case with the 2017 T@b and the Alde setup.

On what might be a related problem, Jen @Sandiegogal was very disappointed with the water pressure in the shower. So, I took out the flow reducer hoping that would help and it did help a little but not really enough for her. I wonder if the pump helps with water pressure too? 

Sharon_is_SAM

If you had full hook ups, you did not need the fresh water tank.  You only need the pump when you don't have a city water connection.  

ScottG

@dsatwork, SAM is correct. The pump runs and draws from the tank when system pressure drops below a certain point. Since you were on city water, the pressure in the system remained high, so the pump never ran even though the tank was full and the pump switch was on.

You are correct that the Alde needs "flow" but that flow can be provided by the pressurized city water connections (which is pressurized to start with) or from the pump (if a city water connection is not available). The Alde has its own internal hot water tank and is in no way dependent upon having water in the fresh water tank.

In short, everything worked fine because you were on city water. It didn't hurt anything to fill the fresh water tank or turn on the pump, but it was unnecessary.

Sharon_is_SAM

But your water pump did not turn on at home on battery?

Homebodyatheart

dsatwork you may want to buy this to spoil your gal:
https://www.amazon.com/ETL-26781-White-Oxygenics-Shower/dp/B00F5MUB66/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490894093&sr=8-1&keywords=oxygenetics+rv+shower+head

A number of people on here have installed them and are very happy. Good luck!

dsatwork

SAM said:

But your water pump did not turn on at home on battery?

No the pump came on just no water coming out..somehow I either ran it dry AGAIN or got air in the line AGAIN. This system is sooooooo fickle. Hopefully, I'll learn how to use it without having to prime the pump EVERY TIME I USE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just a little frustrated and I haven't even had it a two months yet.

dsatwork

Homebodyatheart said:

dsatwork you may want to buy this to spoil your gal:
https://www.amazon.com/ETL-26781-White-Oxygenics-Shower/dp/B00F5MUB66/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490894093&sr=8-1&keywords=oxygenetics+rv+shower+head

A number of people on here have installed them and are very happy. Good luck!

That sounds like the perfect solution for @Sandiegogal Thank you.

ChanW

@dsatwork, mysterious!  

The pump is 'self priming', and it's no problem to run it dry, so maybe you just need to let it run a bit longer, to get it to prime?

Mine has been known to take 30-60 seconds to get itself flowing smoothly.

Here's how I do it:
I'll usually leave all faucets closed until the pump sounds like it's working harder due to pressure, then I'll open the sink valve to let the air blow out, then close it again, let the pressure build up again, open again, close again to build up pressure, etc, until the water is coming out. (Also be sure your water system's drain-cocks are closed, or you'll never get prime!)

FYI, I found that antifreeze remaining in the lines after de-winterizing would tend to foam, and make it difficult to get prime, til it was cleared out.

dsatwork

ChanW said:

@dsatwork, mysterious!  

The pump is 'self priming', and it's no problem to run it dry, so maybe you just need to let it run a bit longer, to get it to prime?

Mine has been known to take 30-60 seconds to get itself flowing smoothly.

Here's how I do it:
I'll usually leave all faucets closed until the pump sounds like it's working harder due to pressure, then I'll open the sink valve to let the air blow out, then close it again, let the pressure build up again, open again, close again to build up pressure, etc, until the water is coming out. (Also be sure your water system's drain-cocks are closed, or you'll never get prime!)

FYI, I found that antifreeze remaining in the lines after de-winterizing would tend to foam, and make it difficult to get prime, til it was cleared out.

I didn't know anything about the water system's drain-cocks being open or closed. I suppose I could search the forum, but since we're having conversation about it maybe you could tell me where they are located? It sounds like that might be the problem. 

Nomad

Until two days ago I've never had a prime or pressure problem and it's never taken the pump more than 15-20 seconds to fully pressurize. Of course, my fresh water tank is my main source. I've only hooked up to water a very few times in 2.5 years. But, all of a sudden it wouldn't pressurize. Thought I'd have to prime. Before I was going to dig into that - since it doesn't hurt it to run - I turned it on and just let it go - Took 3-4 full minutes but it finally pressurized and quit.

dsatwork

@PXLated  thanks for the info..I'm not 100% sure because I wasn't trying to trouble shoot, but I'm pretty sure that I had left the water pump on for an extended period of time. I'm going to give @ChanW  pump priming technique a try before pulling out the manual priming hose and connect it to the cold water connection under the sink and start sucking the air out.

Ratkity

PXL, check your fittings on either side of the pump. Sounds like if it's taking that long to pressurize, you have a tiny air leak somewhere and those hoses connected to the pump are only hand tight.

Sharon_is_SAM

Chan, if dsatwork was able to use water on a city connection without any leaking, can we assume the drains are closed or not?

dsatwork

@SAM thanks for chiming in....I should add that I don't have any obvious leaks. So, if the drain is to drain the fresh water tank and mine is holding water, I would think we could eliminate that as the issue. Maybe, @Ratkity  suggestion for @PXLated  applies to me as well and I should check the tightness of the hoses going into and out of the pump?

Ratkity

@dsatwork, I suggested that to PXL because his pump has been pressurizing perfectly for so long. It's unusual for it to take so long. The main culprit is extra air in the system, whether it's from an air leak (I forgot to tell him to check the pump trap) or there's a humongous bubble in the top of the pump that won't budge.

dsatwork

@Ratkity
Can't you get those bubbles from over filling? Which is what happened to me a couple times already. My system doesn't seem to have enough power to self prime. But I'm going to give @ChanW suggestion a shot, to see if I can get it primed. Going to need the pump more this summer and not looking forward to constantly having to prime it manually.

Ratkity

@dsatwork, No, you can't get those bubbles from overfilling the fresh water tank. As a matter of fact, there's an overflow hose that'll pee on your feet if you overflow the fresh water tank. This tube came out near the fresh water fill tank corner and was black colored on my 2015 T@B. It could be elsewhere on other years and models. 

Are you on shore power when you turn the pump on? Or are you on battery? Your battery could have discharged enough because of phantom power when you tried the pump at home (without city water being connected). Make sure you are connected properly on shore power.

At a campground: Forgive me if you already know this... you plug in the trailer side by pushing the cord in as far as it will go (only goes in one way) and turn it slightly so it locks - I think it's about 1/8th of an inch turn. That locks it in place. Then the ring turns and totally locks and waterproofs the connection. Then go to the pedestal (if you are a campground) and make sure the 30A breaker is OFF. Plug in your dog-bone surge protector to the end of your camper cord and then plug into pedestal. Turn the breaker on.

At home, I only have 20A service. I have an adaptor to go from the 30A surge protector to a 20A plug. That's still enough power for pump, lights, converter and its battery charger. Check your pump then. It should have plenty of power to self-prime. 

Next thing.... Your pump might not be able to prime because there's really no water in your fresh water tank. Your fresh water tank could really NOT be 100% no matter what your See-Levels say. I use an adaptor that inserts inside the fresh water fill to prevent air locks so water doesn't go down into the tank. I also keep the pressure and flow to a minimum to prevent air lock... the adaptor has an on-off valve. To prevent high pressure, use your pressure regulator between the adaptor and the hose.

If you feel air coming out of the fresh water fill, your overflow tube could be blocked. There are several ways to unblock the tube, but I did it the redneck way.

dsatwork

The pump is working with with the 12v system. Now, it pressurizes in about 10 seconds or so, then blast some water out then just dribbles. The flow never gets going consistently but every time you turn it off the system re-pressurizes.

ChanW

Yes, if the drain-cocks were open, and you were hooked up to city water, you'd see water coming out under your Tab. The hot and cold drain-cocks are intended to drain your water pipes (but will not drain your fresh water tank). And if you're getting pressure, they couldn't be open.
It sounds as though you're getting a bit of prime, anyway. Have you tried doing that 'pressurize, then open and close' multiple times? The way I look at it is, it brings the water up higher in the line toward the pump every time you blast out the air.
Or maybe open the faucet just a tiny bit to allow the slight pressure (and water) to stay in the system, while letting the air out... That's worked for me on a different kind of pump.
There must be (supposed to be?) a check valve in that pump. It sounds like yours might be faulty. When you do get it primed, how long does it keep the prime?
Curiouser and curiouser...
Call Ed at NuCamp.

ScottG

@dsatwork, I had a similar problem last season when I first hauled the T@B out of mothballs. The pump would prime (sort of) but the flow was weak and sputtery, it would take a long time for pressure to build after turning off the tap, and the pump would sometimes just run on its own even when the taps were closed.

I assumed I had air trapped somewhere in the system. When I got home after our first trip, I filled the tank, opened all the taps, and just let it run. For good measure I raised and lowered the trailer tongue several times to encourage any stuck bubbles to float out one way or the other. While I can't say for sure if that was the problem or if my efforts fixed it, the pump worked fine for the remainder of the season. Might be worth trying if you haven't done so already. Otherwise I'd start systematically pursuing the suggestions others have made. Good luck!

Sharon_is_SAM

Ratkitty, what is the adapter you use in the fresh water tank to prevent air lock?  That sounds like a good idea.

Ratkity

Cheap, but love it - 

Camco 40003 Water Tank Filler with Shutoff Valve - Lead Free

I also swapped out the flip open gravity fill for the fresh water (which may already be an upgrade included now) with the cap-type opening for the gravity fill. I think I got the idea from jkjenn. What was great about it was that the spout for my 2.5 gallon jug fit perfectly snug in the opening, not allowing water or air to come out of the tank, thereby making it necessary for the overflow tube that was routed to under the camper, to be functioning. It easy had pushed out little spider webs and a small ball of dirt out of the overflow tube at least once.

JR Products 321-A-23-A Polar White Gravity Water Dish

Sharon_is_SAM

Ratkitty, I have the Camco Water Tank Filler that I was going to use to fill the tank from a water jug.  So this will also be useful when using a hose.  I love dual purpose items!