What to expect with the Norcold on 12V ?

suze

     We have a 2017 T@B S with the Norcold 3-way fridge.  We start pre-cooling at home the day before the trip with the camper on 110V shore power.   When it gets down to 30-35 degrees F we pack it with pre-chilled food.  Just as we're pulling out of the driveway, we switch to 12V DC.  The TV is a 2016 Chevy Silverado with the towing package and a 7 pin plug with one wire dedicated to charging the house battery on the trailer.

     If we drive say 4 hours with the fridge on 12V on a summer day,  we will typically find the temp in the fridge is about 60 degrees F when we stop.  The house battery is not depleted and usually reads from 12.5 to 13 Volts when we stop due to the charging ability of the truck.  The little battery indicator light on the fridge control panel is lit. I have never had a problem with the 110V or the propane operation.   I have read here that several people travel with ice in the fridge to help keep it cool while on the road but I get the impression that is because their TV does not charge the house battery and they don't use the 12V setting at all.

    Is my unit working correctly and is this the best I can expect from 12V or is something wrong? 

Ratkity

Remember how hot it is outside. The frig is struggling to cool and the ammonia system puts out a lot of heat itself. I don't know how towing affects the dissipation of heat of an ammonia-based cooling frig. I've always wondered about that. 

On 12V, there is no thermostat, it's just on. It's good your Silverado can keep up with the phantom demands and frig on 12V. Many people arrive with battery depleted.

SweetlyHome

I've shared this in other threads.

"I don't have the AC numbers available at the moment but I have done the math.  On DC 12V x 11.7 = 140.4 Watts.  The same calculation on AC comes out with a higher wattage.  The fridge uses this wattage to boil water in the sealed cooling system, separates ammonia from the water if I remember correctly.  More watts, the more boiled water and more cooling takes place.  This is likely why the frig runs continuously on 12V, no thermostat."

This combined with hot weather the fridge can not keep up.

suze

     I would like to hear from someone with a similar set up.  Since this is a 2017, it is covered under warranty.  If this isn't working correctly, I would like to have it fixed before the warranty runs out.  

foxden

How does the Norcold run on battery when not on the road?  So far, I have only taken my 2017 on short trips but when at the site it ran about the same as with shore power.  I have read much about the need to keep the T@b almost perfectly level to get the 3-way to work so is it possible that travel takes it out of level enough to create problems with cooling?  Have you ever used propane while on the road and, if so, did it work well?

ChanW

We have run the Norcold 3way on 12v on the road on warm days and it has worked as it should.

The floor vent in the lower cupboard is not obstructed? The fridge waste-heat fan is switched on while driving? (I don't know if the 2017 has these)

If it's working fine in propane and 110v modes, you might want to have the 12V circuit/system checked. It might be a fuse. (On ours, one of the fuses for the Norcold's 12v mode is under the stovetop)

RollingBnB

Have you noticed the volt meter on your dash board going down to 12v after driving awhile? The truck ecm will see the truck battery as charged and reduce the alternator output. To ensure constant 14v sent to the trailer turn on the tv lights. That's what works for me. 2015 Silverado

suze

RollingBnB said:

Have you noticed the volt meter on your dash board going down to 12v after driving awhile? The truck ecm will see the truck battery as charged and reduce the alternator output. To ensure constant 14v sent to the trailer turn on the tv lights. That's what works for me. 2015 Silverado

     I came home from a 5 hour trip two days ago.  We ran with the headlights on all the way and every time I checked the dash, it read 14 volts.  I will try switching the lights off a couple of times to see if there is any difference.

suze

foxden said:

How does the Norcold run on battery when not on the road?  So far, I have only taken my 2017 on short trips but when at the site it ran about the same as with shore power.  I have read much about the need to keep the T@b almost perfectly level to get the 3-way to work so is it possible that travel takes it out of level enough to create problems with cooling?  Have you ever used propane while on the road and, if so, did it work well?

I will have to try running the fridge at home on 12v with the the trailer plugged in to shore power to maintain the battery and see if I have a different result. I'll also check for any blown fuses.  The 2017 does not have a cooling fan and the unit is vented outside with a lower and upper louver.  It does get hot though.

BillRedding

Does anyone know if NuCamp is considering/researching going with one of the newer-technology (?) 12v compressor refrigerators instead these problematical (and weak cooling-wise) 12v ammonia refrigerators? What good is a 3-way when only 2-ways work (at least work reliably)? I think a compressor-type unit would work MUCH better, ALL the time, not sometimes -- and certainly no silly "pre-cooling" should be necessary with ANY refrigerator! A compressor-type would be MY preference.

Yes, a compressor may use more battery power (but that's one reason for adding "serious solar" to one's RV (my plan for sure), and we ARE seeing "serious solar"  increasing in popularity nowadays -- despite the dealers adding anemic 100-Watt panels now on some model RVs. But the 12v compressor units are getting better and better (although they already are and HAVE been very good). And they're so quiet you may not be able to tell if it's running or not. QUIET = GOOD!

But even presently (and for some years now) the 12v Engel and ARB (2 top-quality brands) "Danfoss" compressor products use very little power (the ARB may use slightly less than the already low-power demand Engel), and they work VERY well regardless of the outside temps: Their freezers can get and hold zero (!) degrees in freezer mode. And as some RVs are going total-electric -- which may become an industry trend (no propane onboard at all, as a Class B I saw recently) -- a COMPRESSOR refrigerator/freezer seems (to me) to be a very appropriate solution.

One downside is they're smaller than a typical RV-sized refrigerators (they're chest-types) and they have to be stored somewhere (so they'd take up valuable space in an already small T@B). But if one could replace the standard Dometic, Norcold units in the smaller RVs -- which are smaller-sized  models anyway (2.7 cu. ft. in the 400, a size similar to an Engel/ARB) -- and be installed in the same place they 3-ways (or 2-ways) presently are, to me it sounds like an ideal solution.

Maybe NuCamp can go to Engel, ARB (or one of the other brands) and form a partnership to produce 12v Danfoss compressor refrigerators/freezers especially for (and to FIT) a T@B 320 or 400?

I hope SOME solution is found as it VERY important a refrigerator cool & freeze...and do so reliably, every day, and regardless of how hot is it outside. It HAS to! No ifs, ands or buts...  ;-)

By the time I'm able to get MY T@B (if I don't go with a Class B instead), I hope by then T@Bs DO come with compressor refrigerators...

So what do you think: Is it time to DUMP the ancient ammonia units and go compressor -- or not?

-- BR

janet_nc

I've had my T@B for a year and a half, but this past weekend was the hottest weather by far I've had it out. Usually, I plug the T@B in and cool down the fridge on electric the night before, then switch to battery or propane for the trip. The fridge just was not cool after being plugged in for at least 12 hours, so I bought a bag of ice and kept it in a bucket in the fridge. Still took about 24 hours on propane for the Norcold to feel like it was working properly. My guess is the 100 degree temps outside, but I'll check the vents as mentioned above. I've found from past experience that propane cools the best, next best is shore power, then battery, but battery is usually adequate if pre-cooled.

Ratkity

@RollingBnB, it's funny that my GMC Canyon does the same thing except I never was thinking of the Frig. I was turning on the lights and auxiliary lights for safety, that's all. There's also some mandatory headlight areas (I have daytime headlamps), but I think they want you to run nighttime headlights for safety. I also go thorough a tunnel periodically and I hate how long it takes for my truck to realize it needs to switch from daylight to nighttime lights. With all the ECM software programming, you'd think someone would program the alternator to have a higher output in general when in "tow mode". I don't think it would be hard to do.

RollingBnB

Ratkity I noticed the trailer runs about 1v lower than the tv so if my alternator output is reduced to 12.5v due to a fully charged battery, the trailer only gets 11.5v on the display.

Ratkity

RollingBnB said:

Ratkity I noticed the trailer runs about 1v lower than the tv so if my alternator output is reduced to 12.5v due to a fully charged battery, the trailer only gets 11.5v on the display.

I haven't seen my display ever go that low. I haven't checked it on idling. I never ran the frig on 12V after someone told me how many amps it pulled and how inefficient it was on electric in general. Since I'm a weekend camper, I'd propane cool it down 24 hours prior to camping and travel with frozen water (and drink it during camping). This only works for weekenders like me.

With the new camper, I can run on propane and it's much larger and set up like big campers. It doesn't blow out. There's no 12V option. I plan to do long, relaxing trips with the new camper and boondocking. Got the solar mppt controller setup planned in my lunchbox (fingers crossed, it's a tight fit). I think I need one more trip to HD lol. 

General question for those who know bluetooth... can it transmit through thin tin?

dsatwork

The 2017 Norcold fridge model N 180.3 is the only fridge Norcold makes without a fan to regulate the temp when it gets hot inside the box. We have the same issue @suze . we have mentioned it in passing on other threads. But I believe the problem will be resolved with an auxiliary fan. I have some other Norcold repairs under warranty and when those are completed, we'll install the auxiliary fan and report back.

dsatwork

If anyone can find a fan listed please point it out