Alde heat while winterized?????

Jdcouple

Can you use the Alde heat while the plumbing is winterized? We are wanting to do a weekend trip where we would just need the heat. I don't want to dewinterize but I don't want to hurt anything. 

4ncar

Proceed with out fear! 

ScottG

If you have bypassed the Alde, or relied solely on the "blowout" method, it's fine.

If you have filled the Alde with antifreeze (not recommended by Alde) there may be some additional concerns about heating the antifreeze, but I'm not absolutely certain of that.

Although they share the same heaters, the Alde's glycol loop (for heating the cabin) is entirely separate from the domestic hot water heater.

dragonsdofly

@Jdcouple, yes, as 4ncar stated. Your alde system uses glycol and is totally separate from the water system. When dewinterized, fresh water moves into and out of a tank heated by the alde to provide hot water. When winterized, no water flows in or out of the tank, but the alde circulates heated glycol to provide warmth. The stainless steel water tank is not damaged by lack of water. We camped in late November this way. The t@b was warm and cozy as sleet, snow and wind made the outdoor part of the trip raw and uninviting. Enjoyed the wildlife and getaway grown-up weekend. My recommendation is to go for it! (We have kids 11 & 12 and needed adult time).

ericnliz

@Jdcouple, Let 'er rip tater chip! That's what 'ya got an Alde heater for! Stay comfy & warm, have fun & be safe out there! ( Just don't forget to crack open a window, or the vent! If 'ya don't you'll be wipin' moisture off the ceiling & walls!) 

Homebodyatheart

@Jdcouple L@dybug is all winterized (blow out method, antifreeze in traps and waste tanks only) and tucked away in her shed for winter. Actually, I've got the Alde heating right now as I plan to spend the afternoon in hibernation there. I do this pretty regularly, and the alde works great!

norwood

Our 2015 max q has the manual 3010 Alde control. We are winterized with the blowout method. I am fearful of damage to the heating elements since no water in tank. Should I be concerned if using for cabin heat only? Should the heater circulation pump  be switched off (bottom), normal (center), or warm water pump off (top)? Does the system warm up quicker using both electric and propane? Thanks as always for sharing your experience.

Homebodyatheart

@norwood it’s my understanding that the alde heater runs on glycol. That’s a whole separate tank and system from your water heater tank and water pump with switch for hot water. I have run the alde on both propane and shore power with no problems. Just depends on where I’m parked. If I have shore power I use it. I did dry camp last summer at one spot and then I used propane. The alde heat is a gentle radiant heat, no fan or blower involved like other systems. While it does take longer to warm up than other heaters it provides consistent heat. Usually when I camp I close my windows(leaving at least two locked in the barely open position for ventilation) and door before it cools off, holding heat from the day in. I start my alde about an hour before I know I will want it. It takes some playing with but once you figure out what works for you I bet you will like it, too!

Sharon_is_SAM

@norwood - the way that you winterized permits use of cabin heating with the glycol circulation pump.  If the circulation pump is off, you will not circulate the glycol through the radiators and your cabin will not heat.  Your heater circulation pump should be in the normal (center) position as you stated, and your controls left to right should be "D", "F", "I".  According to the instructions for the manual controls, when you are using both electric and propane, the electric initiates the heat at your selected temperature setting via the knob.  If the cabin temp. drops 2 - 4 degrees F, then the propane kicks in to bring the heat back up to your desired setting.  Some Tabbers believe that the cabin heats up faster with both the electric and propane turned on, but the instructions do not provide that info.  

ScottG

norwood said:

...

Should the heater circulation pump  be switched off (bottom), normal (center), or warm water pump off (top)?

...

Only the middle setting will allow for cabin heat. There is no "warm water pump"--the upper setting turns on the heaters without circulating the glycol. This allows you to have hot water without also heating up the cabin.

norwood

Awesome! That is exactly the information I need. We are planning a short trip to practice our boondocking skills. Might as well jump right in the deep end of the pool (lol).

rajamar

This is our first trip where we might need Alde heat next week in Yosemite (without hot water). So I'm sitting here in the backyard with water lines drained, glycol level checked, no shore power, battery and propane on. 3010 panel sliders set as pictured with "thermostat" set to 5. Is there any way to know that the Alde is heating the cabin without waiting for an hour or two, or more? Ambient is about 72 F. I was expecting to hear a little something from the propane burner, but can't hear anything. I do have the 120V 20A Alde circuit breaker off, assuming that is ok when running on 12V and propane.

Sharon_is_SAM

I typically hear the Alde click when it starts to circulate the glycol.  This is also a good time for you to check the setting of the Alde pump.  It should be set at 1.5 to 2.  It is hard to see as it is close to the floor.  If you want to confirm that the pump is circulating glycol, turn up the control to 5 and check your glycol reservoir as it will bubble and churn and be noisy.  It is not necessary to turn off the circuit breaker.  If you think it is not working on propane, close the propane tank, then reopen sliwly, then light the stove to confirm propane flow.

rajamar

I started the 3 way fridge to confirm propane was ok. I think I read somewhere here that not all glycol pumps have a setting knob/switch. Here's what my pump looks like:
Is it just not visible in these pics?
Does the burner make any faint sound?

TerryV6

If we want to do a physical check, we just lift the bench and feel the Alde hoses.  They should be getting warm.  My wife usually sleeps on that side, and if I set it to 5, I’d have roast wifey, like something out of Eric’s cooker....

rajamar

Going to have another go at it tomorrow. I did notice in the Alde 3010 Service Manual (GB version) that when it it starts on propane there is an autocheck routine that spins up the fan and if it is within spec a spark is generated as a solenoid valve opens up and the fan slows down. All of which should be audible (unless it is different in the USA/Canada versions). I checked the Alde DC 15A fuse it's OK - in fact a red light comes on on the fuse panel when it is removed. I am going to check the internal glass fuses tomorrow. Thanks for the quick response.

Sharon_is_SAM

I agree.  Replace your fuses.

ScottG

The circulator pump is quiet, by I can generally hear it running, along with a faint gurgling of the glycol.

Circulation doesn't necessarily mean heat, however. TerryV6's suggestion to feel the hoses is good--you should notice a temperature increase within minutes, not hours.

Also, if you are running on propane, you should feel blowing hot air at the Alde external exhaust port when the propane burner kicks in.

ChanW

@rajamar, it sounds like you covered everything else, other than the internal fuses.
Re: the pump speed adjustment, is missing on ours too. Looks same as yours. I'm surprised yours is lacking that though, ours is much earlier, 2013/2014.

rajamar

It was the fuse:


Put one of the supplied spare fuses into left (negative) holder and it started right up - faint whirring of fan and after a few minutes both glycol hoses are nice and very warm - about 150F. In the time it's taken to write this the fan and pump have cycled off and back on.  Turned temp dial down to the "bullet" at 3 1/2 and the circulation pump turned off. Turned it back up to 5 and fan and pump started back up. All's good.

Researching the Alde fuse issue has raised several questions which significantly stray from this "Alde heat when winterized????" thread. Will start a new post.

@ChanW - like many other T@B features it seems  that model years do not necessarily correspond  with variations in subcompetents.

Harwoodmary

I have a Tab 320 S- 2018. Winterized blow out method. Antifreeze in water lines. I want to use heater. Fresh glycol is in tank. When I turn on the panel, I hear a constant sound of a pump (low hum)- is this normal? Camper warms up nicely. Also- what is best setting 1 or 2 when on shore line only for heating camper?

rajamar

Low pump noise is normal - pump is circulating the hot glycol. We never camp in really cold weather - lows in mid 30s - and found the system to be quite effective. Run it for an hour before going to sleep, turn it off overnight, turn it back on when we first wake up. We "sleep cold" and found that even on the lowest setting the area over the Alde just gets too warm after more than an hour or so for comfortable sleep.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Harwoodmary - as long as you bypassed the Alde water tank when you added antifreeze to the plumbing you can use the Alde to heat the cabin.  If you are using a 30 amp outlet for shorepower you can turn the Alde up to 2 and to heat it up faster, you can add in propane.   If you are at home and only on a 15 amp circuit, then you are limited to the “1” Alde setting.  If you are plugged into a 20 amp circuit, then you can use the “2” setting.  Just be aware that you won’t be able to run another heat generating appliance like a microwave or a hair dryer as you will trip a circuit breaker.

Harwoodmary

 Hey Sharon, thanks so much for your reply! I am new to this system (recently sold my Eurovan and Alde is a big learning curve). I did my student teaching back in the 70’s in Westlake, small world! Thanks again!

Harwoodmary

Thank you, Rajamar, for your response regarding the pump circulating the hot glycol- that is really helpful. We live in NC and desire to do some “winter camping,” while recognizing that this necessitates heating the cabin only and non water use. The sound was a question and you provided a good answer- thank you.

bergger

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@Harwoodmary - as long as you bypassed the Alde water tank when you added antifreeze to the plumbing you can use the Alde to heat the cabin.  If you are using a 30 amp outlet for shorepower you can turn the Alde up to 2 and to heat it up faster, you can add in propane.   If you are at home and only on a 15 amp circuit, then you are limited to the “1” Alde setting.  If you are plugged into a 20 amp circuit, then you can use the “2” setting.  Just be aware that you won’t be able to run another heat generating appliance like a microwave or a hair dryer as you will trip a circuit breaker.

I was under the same impression about only using the 1kw setting if plugged into the 15 or 20 amp circuit.  Then I was on the Alde website and it says the following "Max draw from 120 V mains is ≈4.5 A on 1 (1 kW) or ≈9 A on 2 (2,1 kW)"

If this is correct you should be able to run the alde on 2kw on a 15 amp circuit with no problems.  As long as it is dedicated to the trailer and you don't run any other high draw electronics off of it.  Does this seem correct??  I'll be plugging mine into a dedicated 20 amp circuit next year so using the 2kw should not be an issue.    

ScottG

@bergger, I'm not clear on how those numbers are derived. Do you have a link? They sound more applicable to European Aldes which have different heating elements and are designed to run on higher voltage.

North American Aldes have two 950 watt electric heaters. Since amps=watts/volts, each heater will draw nearly 8 amps at 120 volts (950/120=7.9). Together (the "2" setting) they would draw nearly 16 amps and would likely trip a 15 amp circuit--particularly if you tried to run anything else at the same time.

kmulh

The converter will also likely pull a few amps periodically to keep the battery fully charged, especially if you are using any 12volt power for anything.

bergger

I got it from the Alde.us site in the FAQ section.   Either I'm on the wrong site, they have the wrong info on it or it's accurate??  Because yes you are correct that in the manual it states 2x950 watt elements and 7.9 amps on output 1 and 15.8 amps on output 2.   My guess is they do have the European data there by mistake.  Here's the link to the site,  https://www.alde.us/faq/ and here is the FAQ.

"How much electrical power does the heating system use?

There are two mechanisms in the Alde Compact boilers that draw >0.1 A current from the vehicle 12-volt battery. The exhaust fan venting waste gases (≈0.4 A), and the heating fluid being pumped around the circuit (≈0.2 A). So normal draw from the vehicle battery is between ≈0.2–0.6 A, including the control panel. Max draw is 1.9 A for approximately three seconds at system start-up.

Max draw from 120 V mains is ≈4.5 A on 1 (1 kW) or ≈9 A on 2 (2,1 kW)"

Like others have said it may appear that a 20amp circuit is the minimum safe bet to use the 2kw setting.  

Sharon_is_SAM

I found an old thread and a quote from Klenger who actually measured the power consumption:

klenger Member Posts: 292

 February 2019 174.18.120.126

I cannot speak to the performance of stage 1 and stage 2, but I can address the actual power consumption.  Mine is a new 2019 320S with the Alde 3020 (which may not be the same as yours).  I just installed a Progressive Industries EMS, which provides real-time 120 VAC current use in amps.  With the Alde on 1, it used about 9 amps and on 2 it used about 18 amps, so from a power consumption perspective, 2 is twice as much as 1.  That may not translate into 2x the performance.  In any case, the T@B is a 3 season above freezing RV, I'd say you did OK at -15°.  Stay safe.  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/24/alde-system/p7

ontheroad

@bergger...I downloaded the Alde 3020 manual...and it states that it requires 16 amps.... it's a good read as it thoroughly describes the Alde...