Phantom Drain

ScottG

Has anyone ever used an ammeter to actually measure the T@B's phantom drain on the battery?

As best I can tell on my 2015 S, there are four sources of phantom drain:

- LEDs on the television and stereo/DVD
- The hard-wired CO/propane detector
- The LED "night light" in the bathroom light fixture

Can anyone think of others?

I know this hasn't been much of a discussion topic since T@Bs started being equipped with battery shut-off switches, but I'm suddenly curious. I know some of you disconnect some of those items to save a little power while dry-camping. 

Ratkity

The converter itself needs power (12V side). The usb ports, even when nothing is plugged into them. The fan, if you have a remote control. Not sure, but the digital Alde thermostat in off mode. It seems more of a standby screen even though no power is being sent to the Alde. 

Ugh, I know I'm missing something obvious.

pthomas745

@jkjenn's  spreadsheet had data.

JimEngel

One of the things I noticed is that when Alde is on and the actual temperature is below the set temperature and both gas and electric are off on the control panel and/or unplugged or turned off at the tank the pump runs.

My measurement was .85 amperes according to my notes.

dsatwork

We had a really bazaar battery drain on our last trip up to up to Carpinteria at Christmas. We were dry camping and charging with solar during the day. By evening, I would say around 10PM all was dark and no charging from any source, our batteries would read about 12.9. So we were comfortable that we had fully charged the batteries during the day. By morning the batteries we're so low that we couldn't use the Alde. We even got up in the middle of the night (2 or 3AM) to see where the battery was at and it was still showing 12.9 or so. By morning it was dead. The Alde has a Low-voltage shutdown, If voltage drops below 10.5 V DC, the gas supply to the burner will be switched off. Now this is on 2 100AH AGM batteries, When I got home, I charged them up and took them to the local battery shop and had them stress tested and they held up just fine. Haven't been able to duplicate this at home, either.

We ran lights and fan some but turned all that off before going to bed. Overnight we were just running a 12 volt oil diffuser for about 2 hours and charged our phones. We don't have a stereo and we ran the fridge on propane the entire trip. The only thing out of the ordinary was, I left the 10 gauge extension cord for my solar panel out and plugged into the Zamp connection on the tongue box. But that shouldn't be a problem, it would have had to short out somehow, and that would have damaged the batteries. This is a real mystery. Of course I've done a ton of mods that involve electrical, so there is more places to look for phantom draw. 

Ratkity

@dsatwork do you think you have a short somewhere? Would that do it? Where's our engineers? That is a total mystery. Check the connection at the battery terminals? The battery shop would have noticed, right?

dsatwork

@Ratkity thanks for the help...but I took out the batteries to have them tested and yes at camp I checked the connections. It had to be something we were doing on the trip... Hopefully it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that as a young man...I would walk along and street lights would shut off as I moved down the street. I thought that was just too must testosterone. 

Homebodyatheart

@dsatwork, I've had the same luck with streetlights. Forgot all about it till just now. Because all this electrical calculation stuff goes way over my head I'll concentrate on the draws. By your title I was thinking that you've got another drain, other than the sink and shower. I was a bit confused and curious. Have you checked the draw of your disco ball and wild lights? You've got an outside outlet, right? Maybe the local critters tap into your supply after you go to sleep? That's about all I've got for now. Probably a good thing! 

ericnliz

@Homebodyatheart, & @dsatwork, If it's THAT much of a draw on 2 100AH AGM batteries, I WANNA PARTY WITH THOSE CRITTERS!!!! Just sayin'!

ScottG

Thanks all. I forgot that jkjenn's famous spreadsheet had parasitic draw on the first line! It's small but constant, and does add up over the course of a day. JimEngal's measurements are considerably higher, possibly reflecting additional drain from new electronics added to more recent model years.

I think I feel some additional experimentation coming on once the T@B is recommissioned for the next season. My 2015 lacks the digital Alde panel, SeeLevel, and remote control fan, so I don't have those parasites to mind, but I might try to tease apart the drain from some of the other usual suspects. I hadn't thought of the USB ports.

Homebodyatheart, I'm not a big fan of excessive lighting in camp, but you may be onto something with the outside outlet. Those campground chipmunks sure are cute, but I don't trust 'em any further than I can throw 'em! (And I can't catch 'em, so that ain't too far!)  :-)

ScottG

@dsatwork, any chance you left the fridge on the DC setting? Seems somebody had a similar strange event recently and that's what it traced back to. 

irvingj

We had an older DM T@B, our first camper-trailer, and it was a steep learning curve, for sure. I discovered the hard way that when it was sitting at home, the battery would be killed in a day or two, just due to the CO/Propane (?) detector (that thing on the floor to the right of the 120V outlet), as near as I could figure.

That's when the disconnect switch (and a new battery) went in! Keep in mind we weren't using the fridge, and had no other --apparent-- electrical loads.

ScottG

I hear ya', irvingj--that's a lesson most of us with pre-2016 T@Bs learned the hard way. jkjenn used to opine that killing one's first battery was almost a required right of passage for new owners!  :-)

(And yes, that thing on the floor is the CO/propane detector.)

dsatwork

ScottG said:

@dsatwork, any chance you left the fridge on the DC setting? Seems somebody had a similar strange event recently and that's what it traced back to. 

If it were only that simple..I actually had my first extensive drive, Carpinteria is about 200 miles away and we ran fridge on propane the entire trip. First time ever, I turned on the propane at home and it stayed on the entire drive there, while we were at camp and then on the way back home. I credit that success to driving 65mph on a freeway with not much of a crosswind and not getting caught up in the backwash of wind from semi trucks.

dsatwork

irvingj said:

We had an older DM T@B, our first camper-trailer, and it was a steep learning curve, for sure. I discovered the hard way that when it was sitting at home, the battery would be killed in a day or two, just due to the CO/Propane (?) detector (that thing on the floor to the right of the 120V outlet), as near as I could figure.

That's when the disconnect switch (and a new battery) went in! Keep in mind we weren't using the fridge, and had no other --apparent-- electrical loads.

Yes and when the battery gets low enough, that thing starts chirping and there is no turning it off.

irvingj

OMG, the first long trip we took... went up to New Brunswick, ran into a horrendous driving rainstorm. I didn't know about running the fridge on DC (hey, we were over the road, right?) and the battery was really flat when we stopped at a campground... in the dark... in the rain... backing into the spot...  When I plugged in, I'm not sure if it was the inverter or the propane detector, but the chirping! LOUD!! Incessant! Took about 2 hrs before it finally quieted down and we were able to sleep. What a memory. (Yeah, I can laugh now, but tweren't quite so funny at the time!)

But... STILL way better than a tent!! ( I still miss our T@B....)

dsatwork

@irvingj did you sell your T@B?

ScottG

@Homebodyatheart, is this what you thought I meant by "phantom drain?"  ;-)

ericnliz

@ScottG, GOOD one!

irvingj

Yes, we sold it. It now lives in upstate NY.

Now driving a self-propelled T@B... otherwise known as a short Roadtrek/Sprinter, but still miss that little T@B. It was really neat.

jkjenn

Check your pump. More than once I have inadvertently left the pump turned on. 

dsatwork

irvingj said:

Yes, we sold it. It now lives in upstate NY.

Now driving a self-propelled T@B... otherwise known as a short Roadtrek/Sprinter, but still miss that little T@B. It was really neat.

You always hook one up and tow it with your Roadtrek, if you find one lying around somewhere. 

dsatwork

@jkjenn Thanks we looked for that on the trip and may have left it on one night. But, I know we've done that before, without any issues at all. Unless it's pumping (which you would here) it's just the light and that shouldn't chew up 100AH of battery.

Ratkity

Hrm.. phantom potties and them electrical street lamps going out. Me? I destroy watches that run on them button batteries. Even my stupid key fob for my truck seems to constantly need it's 3-4 button batteries way too much! 

ericnliz

@Ratkity, You just have that "shocking" personality!

Ratkity

Alas, I just don't have that ZzzzZAP! of V's wand

Homebodyatheart

@Ratkity as a kid did you like to play the game “Button, button-Who’s got the button? Just checking...

@ScottG not exactly, but if I saw that as a kid I’d be scarred for life, and probably do my business behind some bush or tree from there on out!

@ericnliz you’ve been pretty well behaved lately. You’re sort of overdue for a good zap aren’t ‘ya? 

Ratkity

@Homebodyatheart OMG OMG.. my Mom used to make us play that game all the time in my girl scout troop! hehe.. she was my girl scout troop leader. She made it fun - all those snipe hunts! You've never seen so many little girls get poison ivy.

She did know how to make the best "pocket stew". I think other people call it poor man's stew. I made mine like a meatloaf. My mouth is watering thinking of it..... it's also making me forget about The Button game and Duck, Duck, Goose game!

Homebodyatheart

@Ratkity either of those games are better than dodgeball! Mom was my Scout leader for many years, lots of fun times and memories! And...I learned my camping skills well! I think they called those foil meal packets hobo stew. Memmmmm’ries! 

Ratkity

@Homebodyatheart, my Mom didn't follow the traditional "pretty little Girl Scouts" rule. We got dirty, we camped, we cooked, we learned cool things...like it's ok to pick up slimy things, but to identify a cottonhead! Yup, good memories.

ericnliz

@Homebodyatheart, I like to think my "dodgin'" skills have got a lot better. A good ZAP once in a while does a body good!