Another TV Question

BarbaraLynn

It's looking like all systems are go for buying our T@b 320-S, but there's been a hitch in the giddyup. Our TV is Big Red, a Subaru Outback 2014 (4 cylinder, I *think* it's a limited?) with a tow rating of about 2700. It's the cross-over variety. Pic of the car in my profile. 

I've been doing some reading, and it looks like there's a lot of contention whether a Subaru Outback "should" tow a T@b.  We were assured by the RV dealer that this would be fine, but having read the threads has made me worried that we might be making a mistake. We're heading from northern Michigan to the Mouse World in 6 weeks, so the terrain would be ok up until we get through the ridges/mountains (Smokies?) heading south. 

With the weight of the Tab being around 1780/1800, it's not too heavy I would think, but when you add the two of us, that would bring it up to about 2,100 +/-. With the weight added for clothes/gear/chairs (we can travel pretty light), and I'd think we'd be looking at around 2,300 all told. This would be without propane, traveling with empty tanks, and minimal food as we'd be eating at restaurants along the way. Can't do without the coffee maker.

We already have trailer breaks, but himself hasn't been too handy in learning how to use them as we've not had to with the tag, so that would be a learning curve. 

If we go ahead with our plans (have already been approved, but not signed the papers yet), we won't have a lot of money left for additional things for the car, like coolers for transmission fluids etc., so the best we could do is to flush out and replace all fluids. We're not looking at getting a new car for the foreseeable future. Big Red is in pretty good shape.

Himself is already resigned to driving a lot more slowly (he says it'll be like driving like an old man--he's 62 next month, and I said "and your point??" Lol score one for me), and not using cruise control going up hills.  

Ok, so my questions are:

• If our tow weight is considered to be 2,700, would around 2,300 +/- be considered "borderline"?

• When considering weight, does one factor in a full gas tank? 

Homebodyatheart

We traded our Subaru outback in for a 2015 Toyota Highlander to be on the safe side. I believe the 1760 Tab dry weight is before the battery and propane tank are installed before you drive off the dealers lot. Another consideration is the tongue weight. I think that was the tipping point for me to trade in our Outback. Many do tow with the 4 cyl Outback and do fine. Others have had major damage to their Outbacks (wheel issues and transmission failure) after a while of towing their Tab. We live in the Western US and have different driving conditions than others, so this was a factor for us. Good luck with your decision!

Sharon_is_SAM

Recommendation is to limit your weight to 75% of allowable= 2025#.  Many discussions re towing a TaB with a 4 cylinder vehicle.  Oftentimes, it is not can you tow it, but can you stop it.  Best advice for comfort and safety is to use a 6 cylinder TV with a 3500 capacity minimum.

MuttonChops

@BarbaraLynn
Do search this forum, several threads on this topic.

You might find this one useful . . . .

http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/341/towing-with-subaru-4-cyl-vs-6-cyl

BarbaraLynn

@MuttonChops Thanks Yes, this forum is where I began my research, but thank you for the link.

Based on what I've read on this and other forums, I don't think we can chance our TV on the upsizing; also, we're unable to buy a new tow vehicle at this time so it looks like a T@b isn't in our near future after all.  

I do thank all who responded, as the answers I received and research I did here have helped us avoid a major mistake. You all are helpful in the extreme, and it's been a pleasure reading your posts and ooooo'ing over your camping photos  

Barb

BigGrover

I agree, 75% of towing capacity is a good rule of thumb but not necessarily a deal breaker. I would suggest that you try towing it first locally to see how it feels.  Maybe even get the dealer to hook it up gor you to try a short tow before you buy since they made their towing comment.  ( When looking at trailers a few years ago my TV was a Ford Ranger,  I was buying a popup and the dealer tried to sell me a travel trailer beyond my tow capacity because they werewway overstocked on yhem. Tried to tell me the vehicle manufacturer's kept the published ratings low knowing they were capable of higher capacities.  I told him I would buy if they would give me a signed letter stating the trailer was safe to tow with my Ranger and that they would furnish me a new TV if it proved to be different.  Needless to say I left towing a pop up)  Reese makes a lighter weight equalizing hitch (66557) you may want to try that would probably make it safer for you as well as leveling it out for towing releiving rear end sag.  Trailer brakes are not complicated to adjust if you already have a controller installed all the better.

jgram2

We chose to sell our beloved Forester and bought a used 4runner V8. Love it for towing over the Rockies but it’s more beast than necessary for in town. Some of us are waiting for the 2nd generation of the new Subaru Ascent! 

MuttonChops

BarbaraLynn said:

• If our tow weight is considered to be 2,700, would around 2,300 +/- be considered "borderline"?

• When considering weight, does one factor in a full gas tank? 

You might find a general web-search for trailer towing terms & definitions more helpful than just searching this forum to understand everything.  This forum has the information however it is in bits & pieces across several threads. A web-search will locate articles only on the topic as well as downloadable PDF files.

Section 8 of your 2014 Subaru Owners Manual has useful information.

Big Picture:

CGVW   combined gross vehicle weight.  Total weight of your TV + trailer + everything loaded in to both.  CGVW would be your GVW + tow capacity if a CGVW value is not published.

GVW     gross vehicle weight, total weight allowed for fully loaded and fueled car including tongue weight.
TGVW, GVWT   same as GVW but for trailer, different folks seem to use different initials.

ARGW  Axle rear gross weight, maximum weight allowed on rear axle

You need to make sure you do not exceed any of these Gross Weight ratings not just the TV tow rating or tongue weight.  Exceeding one of these can damage the vehicle and may not be safe.  Surveys completed by trailer safety organizations have found 50% of the TV - Trailer combinations on the road exceed one or more of these Gross Weight ratings.

Would guess your 2,300# trailer estimate could be 2,600# before you know it.  So to reduce that the normal action is move stuff to the TV, which impacts the TV GVW and ARGW.  It becomes of game of musical chairs(loads) when your starting point is at the TV limits.

If you follow the TV Manufacturer recommendations of maximum tow weight and maximum tongue weight { 200# for 2014 Outback } you should be able to tow that load safety on level ground without headwind or crosswind . . . under ideal conditions . . . tow weights seem to be set by marketing departments.

But you must make sure you are under the different gross weight limits.

Many people use the trailer should be no greater than 75% of tow weight rating (or less) to provide better towing performance in real world conditions and less risk of damaging the vehicle.

Luckyj

MuttonChops said:

BarbaraLynn said:

• If our tow weight is considered to be 2,700, would around 2,300 +/- be considered "borderline"?

• When considering weight, does one factor in a full gas tank? 

You might find a general web-search for trailer towing terms & definitions more helpful than just searching this forum to understand everything.  This forum has the information however it is in bits & pieces across several threads. A web-search will locate articles only on the topic as well as downloadable PDF files.

Section 8 of your 2014 Subaru Owners Manual has useful information.

Big Picture:

CGVW   combined gross vehicle weight.  Total weight of your TV + trailer + everything loaded in to both.  CGVW would be your GVW + tow capacity if a CGVW value is not published.

GVW     gross vehicle weight, total weight allowed for fully loaded and fueled car including tongue weight.
TGVW, GVWT   same as GVW but for trailer, different folks seem to use different initials.

ARGW  Axle rear gross weight, maximum weight allowed on rear axle

You need to make sure you do not exceed any of these Gross Weight ratings not just the TV tow rating or tongue weight.  Exceeding one of these can damage the vehicle and may not be safe.  Surveys completed by trailer safety organizations have found 50% of the TV - Trailer combinations on the road exceed one or more of these Gross Weight ratings.

Would guess your 2,300# trailer estimate could be 2,600# before you know it.  So to reduce that the normal action is move stuff to the TV, which impacts the TV GVW and ARGW.  It becomes of game of musical chairs(loads) when your starting point is at the TV limits.

If you follow the TV Manufacturer recommendations of maximum tow weight and maximum tongue weight { 200# for 2014 Outback } you should be able to tow that load safety on level ground without headwind or crosswind . . . under ideal conditions . . . tow weights seem to be set by marketing departments.

But you must make sure you are under the different gross weight limits.

Many people use the trailer should be no greater than 75% of tow weight rating (or less) to provide better towing performance in real world conditions and less risk of damaging the vehicle.

I do agree with the capacity of your vehicule.

Some of those number are for safety reason, some are for traking capacity and engine performance.

think about it, how can a vehicule with simply a 6cyl, can tow more than the same one with a 4 cyl.  Vehicule as the same weight of very close, and that weight is in the front of the TV.  What bring stability to a TV compare to an other one, is wheel base and weight.  The two outback are about the same and you have trailer brake for stoping.  People who think thay are safer because of a number, are not really thinking this.

the real difference is in engine capacity, torque and transmission capacity, if it is a different transmission (not always the case).  So if you are willing to work with the engin, downshift in long up hill and install a trany cooler as soon as you can, I would go for it.  And it is a Suby, so do not over rev the engine, your head gasket will like you much better.  If you decide to gun it, then you will have wished that you either kept the T@G or up graded to a stronger TV.

And I am not saying that you should tow above your towing cap, simply that you can tow closer than max w/o much problems, if you accepte to tow accordingly. Not every ne can do the last part after a few hours on the road.