New to me 2016 CS-S, refrigerator, battery, solar question

gymcoachdon

I picked up my 2016 CS-S today!  
During the walk through at the dealership, they had it on shore power, and had the Alde running, etc.  When we were inside, the monitor showed the battery at 13.4V, if I remember correctly.  He said it wouldn't get higher.  I drove about 3 hours home, with a few stops when I shut off the TV for a few minutes.  When I got home, the refrigerator was cold, so it had been running on 12v.  However, the battery monitor read 12.4v.  I was hoping that the TV would keep the battery topped off in that situation.  I have a 2007 F150 with 7 pin factory tow package.  After reading it seems I may need heavier gauge wiring?

That leads me to my next questions.  The T@b was listed as a 320 CS-S Basic, but it has the Outback style battery box and platforms up front.  Upon closer inspection, it also has a plug for a solar connection, and wiring to the battery.  Does this mean I could purchase a solar panel, plug and play, to keep that battery topped off if boondocking?

If that is the case, any links for products, or for my reading pleasure would be most appreciated!  (like I need to spend more money...)

rkj__

Sometimes trucks need a fuse (or relay?) installed in the fuse box for trailer charging. It’s silly it is not installed from the factory, but I’ve heard on some trucks it is not. 

To to keep the fridge running on solar, you will need quite a bit of power (over 100W suggested) and good access to sunshine. In addition to the solar panel itself, you will need a charge controller. Sometimes you can buy kit with the panel and controller together. 

Homebodyatheart

Congratulations @gymcoachdon, and welcome to the Tab family! Your battery reads over 13 when you are plugged into shore power. It drops into the 12's when you are strictly on battery for power, so you are fine. What you don't want is to have a reading below 12. The solar plug is for a Zamp solar set up. You can buy other brands, and many like Renogy, but you will need to buy an adaptor as the Zamp port wires are opposite of everything else. You can search on the left for more posts on this topic, but that's the basics. You can only run AC on shore power or generator though, as the initial power burst requires more juice than solar or battery can give you. Have fun, and enjoy your new Tab!

dragonsdofly

@gymcoachdon, as far as the battery goes, 13.4 is the charge reading from the inverter. For a true reading, turn everything off, take the trailer off shore power if hooked up, turn your battery switch on, if you have one and let the battery "equalize" as they say and do a battery reading half an hour after. This will give you a more accurate read. 12.4/12.6 depending on age and use is close to a fully charged battery. The technical wizards here will probably go into much more detail. Yes, you got a trailer with upgrades. If the solar plug is in the diamond plate front tub, the factory was installing a Zamp port. That means any solar suitcase by Zamp was plug n play. There are other brands and types out there such as Renogy, but there is a reversed polarity issue with the prewired plug with those others. There are many options and ways to get around that, but solar is its own animal. Please search the categories on the far left of the page. There are so many threads on solar and so much information that it is literally mind boggling. I made it simple for me and the DH. We just bought a Zamp suitcase (contains its own solar controller) so we just plug it in and we're done. Good luck! And congratulations about finding a t@b with nice upgrades. -Denise.

trainwrecked

13.4 on shore power is the voltage put out by the inverter and doesn’t represent your current battery state.  A fully charged resting battery off of shore power with no demand (no lights on, etc...) should read 12.6-12.7 V.  What does your voltage meter show when you are hooked up to the truck with the truck running?

My T@b was pre-wired for a zamp.  I have the 200w suitcase (comes with controller so truly just plug and play) and have been pleased with its performance.  200 may be more than I need but I can still get good bit of power on cloudy days or through the trees.

Sharon_is_SAM

@gymcoachdon, when plugged into shorepower, your battery monitor will read artificially high.  To get a truer reading of the 12 v state of charge you would need to rest the battery (isolate via the cut off switch or just disconnect at the battery).  So, you really don’t know what the true charge was as you departed.  Depending of how much your frig was cycling, you may have been keeping up with the draw.  Before you change any wiring, I would charge your battery to 100%, thoroughly cool your frig filled with food or frozen water jugs, then tow it for x hours.  Then rest your battery and check the state of charge.  The 2 way frigs are reasonably efficient compared to the 3 way Norcolds.  

Yes, you can use solar to charge your battery.  Use the search function - there is a lot of info on solar use here on the forum.  A good tutorial is found at Northern Arizona Wind and Sun.  https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/

trainwrecked

@dragonsdofly you beat me to the punch!

dragonsdofly

@trainwrecked, when I did an edit, for misspelling,  everyone else moved up, so your post is now ahead of mine. I didn't know it was a race, but I was only in first place for a moment. But we're all in this just to pass on the knowledge and experience. Thanks one and all fellow t@bbers!

gymcoachdon

Man, quick answers!  Thanks to all who replied, makes sense now.  When I got home I wasn't on shore power, and the battery had been resting, so the 12.4 was probably a good charge!  I will check on it tomorrow with it hooked to the TV.  Good info on the Zamp, I will look into that brand for simplicity sake, but at this point, I will probably be on shore power for most of my weekend getaways.

Now, does anyone know if turning the temperature on the fridge down to zero actually turns it off?

Homebodyatheart

@gymcoachdon make sure you don't have your 7 pin connector hooked into the TV and the Tab battery turned on while parked for any great length of time. Many have had the Tab drain their TV battery this way. A quick stop isn't a problem, an extended stop is.

ScottG

@gymcoachdon, 12.4V isn't depleted by any means, but as you have probably already noted it wasn't quite "topped up" either. Many owners have noted that running the fridge on 12V while in transit will still result in draining of the T@B battery to some extent. It seems that tow vehicles often fail to completely keep up with the high demands of the fridge.

While some of the problem may stem from inadequate wiring to the 7-pin charge line, a bigger issue may be that modern vehicle generators (formerly knows as alternators) almost always employ circuitry to reduce output under "normal" conditions.

Some owners have found ways to trick the generator into upping its game such as turning on the headlights or engaging the tow-haul mode if equipped. Others--myself included--have simply abandoned use of the fridge while in transit in favor of jugs of ice. If you are used to tent camping anyway, the fridge makes a pretty good cooler.  :-)

There are several threads here on this topic if you are interested.

ScottG

And to answer your other question...

My understanding is there is no temperature control when the fridge is running on 12V, so turning the dial to zero (or any other setting) probably won't make a difference.

If you want it off, turn the mode selector dial to off.

gymcoachdon

I am not aware of a mode selector switch.  The fridge is 12 v or shore power, salesman told me it switches automatically.  I will look for the switch, since I would like to have it off when nothing is in the fridge. (Like when I am messing around in my driveway!)

rkj__

gymcoachdon said:

I am not aware of a mode selector switch.  The fridge is 12 v or shore power, salesman told me it switches automatically.  I will look for the switch, since I would like to have it off when nothing is in the fridge. (Like when I am messing around in my driveway!)

I think ScottG's comment relates to the 3-way fridge found in some other tab models, where the user can select propane, electric, or off mode.

To turn off the two way fridge, all you do is turn the dial below 1 until it clicks. 

gymcoachdon

@rkj__ Thanks, I turned it to zero, I will check again to see if it clicks.

ScottG

Yep, my bad--I overlooked the "CS" in your description! Thanks for the clarification rkj_.

The two way fridges are much more efficient on 12V, so you may not experience the drain in transit that I described, either.

As far as turning things off when you are in your driveway, most of us disconnect the battery entirely when the trailer is not in use. Depending upon when your 2016 was built, you may have a cut-off switch installed in the tub. (My 2015 didn't come with one, but they were incorporated shortly thereafter.) Regardless, I still advocate for turning things off before connecting or disconnecting any power source (battery or shore power).

I still maintain I would expect a little higher reading on your battery right after arriving home. However, it does depend on how charged the battery was to begin with, how far you drove to get it home, and the overall condition of the battery. Was a new one installed before you bought it?

rkj__

ScottG said:

Yep, my bad--I overlooked the "CS" in your description! Thanks for the clarification rkj_.

The two way fridges are much more efficient on 12V, so you may not experience the drain in transit that I described, either.

As far as turning things off when you are in your driveway, most of us disconnect the battery entirely when the trailer is not in use. Depending upon when your 2016 was built, you may have a cut-off switch installed in the tub. (My 2015 didn't come with one, but they were incorporated shortly thereafter.) Regardless, I still advocate for turning things off before connecting or disconnecting any power source (battery or shore power).

I still maintain I would expect a little higher reading on your battery right after arriving home. However, it does depend on how charged the battery was to begin with, how far you drove to get it home, and the overall condition of the battery. Was a new one installed before you bought it?

I don't have a battery cut off switch on my trailer.  I don't worry about turning off the fridge when changing between battery / tow vehicle connection, and shore power.  Doing so would require unpacking the fridge, as the dial is at the back.  That would be horribly unpractical to do. 

I do however make sure the Alde heater is fully off when plugging into, or unplugging shore power, as those little fueses have proven to be sensitive. 

One of the things that caught me off guard when checking battery level before has been current use.  I remember one time I was checking battery level with a little unit that plugs in to the 12V round socket.  It read lower than expected.  I then realized, duh, a light was on, drawing current, which affected the reading. 

Marceline

gymcoachdon said:

Man, quick answers!  Thanks to all who replied, makes sense now.  When I got home I wasn't on shore power, and the battery had been resting, so the 12.4 was probably a good charge!  I will check on it tomorrow with it hooked to the TV.  Good info on the Zamp, I will look into that brand for simplicity sake, but at this point, I will probably be on shore power for most of my weekend getaways.

Now, does anyone know if turning the temperature on the fridge down to zero actually turns it off?

You shouldn’t feel wedded to Zamp products. Focus on getting the solar panel that works best for you. I have a suitcase style 100w panel with built in controller that came with my CSS. I originally used alligator clamps to connect it to the battery but then I got the adapter to reverse the polarity to plug it into the Zamp port. The adapter isn’t expensive. Or it would be easy to swap the Zamp wires on the battery. 
As long as I have a full day of sunshine 100w is plenty to keep the 2-way refrigerator running. But if I was buying a new panel I might look for something bigger. The trade off is that you’re going to be lugging it around. 
AFAIK turning the fridge dial to zero turns it off. 
I have a crummy old Santa Fe and I’ve been able to run the fridge while traveling without depleting TV or trailer battery. I put it at a medium setting and drive with my lights on. 

IslandJo

You should be able to run your T@b on a 100w panel if you have dual batteries. How much power you have is more about your capacity to store power than it is how fast you generate it.  

gymcoachdon

I have been busy all day working on the T@b.  I am actually sitting in my camping chair, in my drive, typing on my phone, while watching the clamshell television!
The fridge does click off when I turn it to zero.
I bought an adapter so I can use shore power from my garage, and hooked up city water.
I de winterized the trailer, and found a few leaks to fix.  I have the Alde running, and have hot water, and the heat is on.  Maybe I should sleep out here tonight!

gymcoachdon

So, at this point, I don't feel like I will need solar, but in the future I may do some boondocking.  I will research dual batteries, and solar panel options.  You guys are great, and a wealth of information!

Sharon_is_SAM

@gymcoachdon - make sure you are using a water pressure regulator when you are hooked up to city water.  Want to keep your PSI under 50.  You won’t be the first to have leaks at high pressure.

gymcoachdon

I do have the regulator in place, as well as an elbow at the T@B, and a water filter.  I am trying to set up exactly as I will at the campsite.
I also hooked up the truck, and practiced backing in, and setting up.

Z_G

Tow with your lights on....depending on how 7pin is done the alternator won't charge unless extra load.... If there is diminished power to battery you may be supplying voltage from your battery and not alternator

ScottG

rkj__ said:

...
I don't have a battery cut off switch on my trailer. 
...

@rkj__, just curious, do you leave the battery connected between trips? If so, have you had any issue with it being depleted by phantom drain?

This was a big (and sometimes contentious) topic of conversation before cut-offs were made standard in (I think) late 2016. My original battery would die so fast and so deep parked in my driveway that I'm still suspicious that it was defective to start with!

rkj__

ScottG said:

rkj__ said:

...
I don't have a battery cut off switch on my trailer. 
...

@rkj__, just curious, do you leave the battery connected between trips? If so, have you had any issue with it being depleted by phantom drain?

This was a big (and sometimes contentious) topic of conversation before cut-offs were made standard in (I think) late 2016. My original battery would die so fast and so deep parked in my driveway that I'm still suspicious that it was defective to start with!

I leave the battery connected, and plug into shore power between trips. 

It has been suggested that the trailer's converter does not keep the battery at an optimum voltage, which could lead to shorter battery life.  I'm willing to accept that risk.  Some seem to report no issues staying plugged in to shore power, but on some of the accounts, the duration they have had no problems for is unclear.