Dance of the winterization information

Floyd67

Hello all,
I purchased a 'hardly used' 2015 CSS clamshell at the end of the season last year, and soon was in a scramble to prevent damage due to freezing weather. All while trying to understand how to actually use the camper and having so much fun. For example, try having a beer and tackling the analog Alde thermostat and instructions translated from Swedish on a very cold night in a new camper by LED light, my friends.

To get to the point, nothing until the latest PDF now in the "User Manuals/PDF File..." under Categories under /Winterizing Manuals/Winterizing 103 by Jim Engel (@JimEngel) has there been even close to what was needed for a new owner of a T@b to prevent damage to his new RV other than moving to Key West.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6372/winterizing-manuals#latest

I think you all know what I mean- the T@b manual for ~2015 is seriously (intentionally?) vague, barely acknowledging the Alde system existed in many sold, the NuCamp one for 2017 on "Winterizing a T@b Clamshell" added useful pictures (but what on earth are they labeling "Tank Drain Valve" in red front in "winterizing mode" CSS undersink view on the 2nd page then??), but combines the air blow out with apparently subsequently unnecessary adding 2-3 (or 4!) gallons of antifreeze and pumping that around with or without bypassing the Alde (potentially problematic, no one knows!). Overall those instructions fail to acknowledge what Mr. Engel correctly points out in his concise guide, one must open one drain of faucet at a time while under pressure if you want to 'blow out' all individual lines and fixtures with a compressor on the city water intake port.

Whew! That first year in trying to follow the NuCamp circa 2015 "T@B Manual" that I could find and info in this forum (a superior blow out approach with just adding antifreeze to drains) I  froze and cracked at least my toilet valve and my water pump diaphragm. Hopefully not more, but now that I see a proper description by Jim E., and finally a good diagram (last page), I don't see how I didn't leave a brick of ice in the Alde hot water side (works fine now, so maybe I didn't).

Anyway, seems to me NuCamp should now hire Mr. Engle to write their 2018 manual (for big $$), and remove all their confusing and conflicting but all too limited stuff they have disseminated. Once concise correct well written manual please, adding just tables for differences by model and year perhaps?

Here's a few more hidden jewels/eater eggs that I would further appreciate if Jim would now add to his breakthrough 2017 guide (pg 3. "Winterizing Process"):

7.5. Disconnect the Thetford V toilet water intake connection as the toilet and floor and let water drain out (its hidden in the Thetford manual)
7.75 Disconnect the water pump as both sides with a pan underneath

Almost seems like that will create a single clear stepwise process at least 'handy' owners can follow to winterize the T@b. The last thing is concern about trapped air pockets leaving water in the Alde hot water side, and how to be sure that those 2 gallons are out when "Winter is Coming".

Best, and thanks very much to Jim E., I would still be at risk if not for your efforts there.
Floyd67

Sharon_is_SAM

@Floyd67  
Per the Alde rep at uCamp 2018, as long as you have drained most of the water from the Alde tank you are good to go.  If the small amount of water left behind freezes, it would not expand enough to be a problem.  It has been discussed on the forum to take the time to actually measure the volume exiting the Alde.  
Opening the toilet flush valve and blowing out the line thoroughly seems to work well, but disconnecting the toilet water line would add a measure of safety in case you do not thoroughly blow out that line.  

JimEngel

I am not aware of the Thetford V toilet water intake connection, so perhaps someone will explain.
Note that the drawings are due to (And credited to) "Michigan Mike" and ScottG, most of what is in my document came from this and similar forums.

I mentioned the water pump disconnects, but have not done this myself. The important thing to know is that there is a filter which can become clogged.

These are wonderful trailers, but very demanding and complex in terms of maintenance, particularly the electrical and heating systems.
In general the design is good in terms of service accessibility.

A major exception in that the 12 volt converter is integral to the whole power distribution system, to replace it you have to essentially rewire the entire system, both 120 volt and 12 volt. This is complex and error prone.

The converter could be separate or with a replaceable 12 volt converter, which would make replacement easy. I have successfully done this, but it was a pain.
If I have the problem again, I would use a separate unit such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Powermax-PM3-35LK-Converter-Charger-Light/dp/B01MT61VFE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1532952365&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=12+volt+35+amp+converter&psc=1

Floyd67

Hi Jim
I think the stock toilet in 2015, Thetford V, may be the most popular toilet in an RV. (Comes in regular and tall.).

In the specific manual for it that was included in my T@b owner materials, it says to disconnect the only incoming water connection to it (at the back) when storing the RV for winter. It is not visible, but you can feel the end of the hose connector and just unscrew it.

 Might in fact be necessary as there are many report here in the forum on how to replace the valve due to cracking during overwintering.

Thanks again. (Is there anything I can do ahead of time to simplify the 12V/120V system?)
J.G