Help! No shore power to T@b!

Bill

Just returned from a two-week, 5000km trip. Throughout the trip I only ever had to use my primary power cord to hook up, and had no problems. Today I tried to hook up to shore power at home, which requires the use of an extension cord. No power to the T@b. I've done this in the past, without a problem. I checked the extension cord with a multimeter, and had power. When I plugged in the primary cord, I couldn't get a reading - either because there was no power, or the probes on my meter aren't long enough for that yellow plug. In either case, when I hook up to the T@b the red light on the plug doesn't light up, and I get no reading from the 120 v outlets in the trailer. Is there a fuse I should be checking? I'm figuring I might have to take the primary cord someplace to have it checked out. It worked fine yesterday morning when we left our final campsite. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Michigan_Mike

Hi Bill,

Since you have a 2017 T@B I seriously doubt your trailers power cord is bad, especially after coming off a 5K mile trip, etc.  I would just try another electrical outlet in the garage (to test the cord and for peace of mind) or try resetting the home circuit breaker, using a different extension cord, etc.  

The light in the 30A power cord "should" come on when it's plugged into shore power but the cord itself isn't internally fused and the light is just a visual help that indicates power is present.  I'm assuming your trailer lighting is working fine and there are no issues es there?   You do have a couple of 110V circuit breakers on your electric converter located on the bench seat of your trailer that you could check.  

Other than the above, if nothing is working inside the trailer check the battery shutoff switch, the fuse at the battery and the fuses inside the electric converter to ensure everything is fine.  

ColoradoJon

Are you sure you have power at the source outlet?  Mine has a GFCI outlet that trips all the time when it rains.  If the red light does not come on you either have a bad cord, the source outlet is bad, or a breaker has tripped at the source outlet breaker box.  Plug in a lamp or something and see if the outlet itself is working.  It doesn't appear to be a problem with the trailer converter.

Bill

Thanks, Mike and Jon. Here’s the latest: I have power at main source - my house. (I double checked circuit breaker inside the house as well as GFCI button.) I plug in extension cord and get a reading from it. (I took the primary cord to an electrician who verified that the cord was working.) I plug in primary cord and do not get a reading from female end that plugs into T@b - possibly because the probes on my meter are fairly short. I plug cord into T@b and red light does not light.
However - with the battery switch turned off, the lights, fan, and A/C fan (I didn’t turn it up to cold) all worked.  None of the 120v outlets has power. 
Mike, I checked under the driver’s side bench seat and didn’t see anything that looked like a circuit breaker. I assume I’ll have to remove the converter  cover, but it looks a little daunting for my limited expertise, and I’m not sure I’m ready to tackle that. 

MuttonChops

Bill said:

[plug 30A] cord into T@B and red light does not light.
However - with the battery switch turned off, the lights, fan, and A/C fan (I didn’t turn it up to cold) all worked.  None of the 120v outlets has power.

Circuit Breakers are on the front side, upper left, of the WFCO Power Center.

It sounds like:
 -  LED on 30A cord is dead or there is a bad VAC ground
 -  12VDC Convertor is working since your 12V items work with the T@B Battery Switch in Off position
 -  VAC Breakers should be reset, as step one . . . easier than tracing a ground

Blue Line is how we believe the WFCO is wired.
30A Breaker Feeds to Convertor & the VAC breakers.
Since you have 12VDC the 30A Breaker is closed.

pthomas745

The WFCO converter has a spring loaded door.  Just press the top center of the door and it unlatches and opens.  The breakers and fuses are behind the door.

ScottG

On my T@B, 12V power to the converter is fed through the same 120V AC breaker that feeds the cabin AC receptacles. (This is contrary to what MuttonChops shows above, so it's possible things have changed.)

Regardless, since the converter is working, that suggests power is getting to the unit and the breaker is fine.

This points to a problem downstream in the cabin receptacle circuit. The most likely culprit is the GFCI receptacle under the driver's side bench, as this feeds and protects all the other cabin receptacles.

If the GFCI button on that receptacle isn't popped, then I would suspect a loose or broken connection within the receptacle itself. I'd start by checking that before pursuing more complex gremlins. Good luck!

(Note that the air conditioner, fridge, and Alde have their own hidden AC receptacles on different circuits. I'm assuming these are still working.)

Bill

Okay, my face is really red right now! I thought I had to remove the back of the converter (under the bench) to access the breakers and fuses. Another glance at @Tabaz invaluable "Fuses for newbies" post showed me where things were located. Does the GFI breaker control all of the 110 v outlets? Alde, A/C and fridge seem to have power.

MuttonChops

Bill said:

. . . Does the GFI breaker control all of the 110 v outlets?

Based on the T@B wiring diagram we have available, Yes the GFI outlet on the 15A circuit controls all the 120VAC general use outlets.  Reference earlier figure above.

Also see the resources section:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/6406/electrical-resources#latest 

   And download the PDF diagram

Side Note:

My 2018 320 S WFCO Circuit Breakers are slightly different that the diagrams 2016 set-up
So Use the Diagram as a Reference Not a Written in Stone Document

ScottG

All of the regular 120V outlets (including the one outside) are wired "downstream" from the one with the GFCI protection. This is intentional, as this configuration affords GFCI to those downstream outlets as well. However, this also means that if the GFCI trips, or a connection comes loose, or the GFCI outlet itself is faulty, those downstream outlets will also not work.

The Alde, A/C, and fridge all have their own dedicated non-GFCI outlets on different circuits controlled by different circuit breakers. Since those work, you clearly have 120V coming into your distribution panel.

Since your 12V lights, etc. work, your converter works. Since your converter is powered through the same 15A breaker as the 120V cabin outlets, then that breaker is not the problem.

Which brings us back to everything downstream from that breaker, which is likely one of three things:

- A bad 120V hot connection at the 15A breaker

- A bad 120V ground connection where that circuit connects to the ground bus.

- A bad connection at the GFCI outlet (or a faulty outlet).

jkjenn

@Bill that GFCI can be a real bugger to reset. I usually have to use something to press it in and even than it can take a couple of times to work.

ScottG

I'll add that if the GFCI is tripped and it won't reset no matter how much you try, that is a likely indicator that the outlet is not getting power.

Bill

I’m guessing that the metal strip beside the red pipe is the ground bus?

Bill

@jkjenn, my previous experiences with GFCIs has been that they protruded a fair bit when “blown” and receded when reset. This one is receded below the surface of the outlet, and doesn’t seem to want to push in any farther. The tiny red light is lit, but there’s no voltage reading. 

Bill

@ScottG, how would I access the hot connection at the 15 A breaker? Would that involve removing the back cover of the converter?

jkjenn

Bill said:

@jkjenn, my previous experiences with GFCIs has been that they protruded a fair bit when “blown” and receded when reset. This one is receded below the surface of the outlet, and doesn’t seem to want to push in any farther. The tiny red light is lit, but there’s no voltage reading. 

Bummer...sounds dead.

ScottG

@Bill, yep, that's the "ground bus"--at a glance, everything looks tight. I'm not entirely sure how to access the hot connection at the breaker. I'm sure it can be done (after all, somebody had to assemble this thing in the first place) but I've never had to do it.

Regardless, if you are getting a lit indicator (mine doesn't have this feature) on the GFCI outlet, that suggests that power is getting to the outlet. This rules out a disconnected hot or ground. At this point, I'm inclined to agree with jkjenn that the GFCI outlet itself is dead.

Can you test/trip the GFCI and then reset it? I don't have high hopes, but it's worth a try...

GFCI outlet are quite finicky. (I had one in my house start buzzing and suffer a meltdown right before my eyes--and I wasn't even using it!) Fortunately, they are pretty easy to swap out. I'd probably try that next--if you choose to tackle it yourself just follow the directions and pay careful attention as to what wire goes where so you maintain GCFI protection in the downstream circuit.

And if that doesn't work then we've got quite a head scratcher... Come on back and we'll try something else!

Bill

Thanks to everyone for your very helpful advice. I'm getting ready to head out on a (non-T@b) trip for a couple of weeks, so I'll have to put this problem on hold.  But I think the next step will be to swap out the GFCI. Stay tuned.

ColoradoJon

To access the breakers and test with your volt meter, you have to remove the front panel and door from the front of the converter.  Should be four screws, one in each corner, to remove.  You will need to remove the door itself to access one of the screws.  The door bends just enough to pop the lower hing pin out from the side pocket.

Once the front panel is removed you will have access to the breaker wire connections and can test with your volt meter.  I had to replace my converter after it stopped supplying 12v power.  It's not a bad job

Sharon_is_SAM

@Bill, hoping it is the GFCI.  Sure sounds like everything else is sound.  

ChrisK

Just a quick interweb search revealed that some GFCI outlets will display a red light when tripped and a green light when in normal condition so yours might just be tripped. Try resetting it (pushing the non-receded button then the normal button)

Bill

ChrisK said:

Just a quick interweb search revealed that some GFCI outlets will display a red light when tripped and a green light when in normal condition so yours might just be tripped. Try resetting it (pushing the non-receded button then the normal button)

Thank you @ChrisK! It is now working! In my (feeble) défense, any GFCI outlets I've previously dealt with had only one button to reset. Nevertheless, my face is red, and I sincerely thank everyone who weighed in on this for your help and insight.