Alde lifetimes fluid alternative

Dalehelman

There is an alternative to dealing with the need to change the glycol fluid due to acid build up in your Alde. All glycol fluids are about 50% water. Water is highly  corrosive to most metals as it becomes  acidic over time. There are compounds in glycol that slow this process down. There is an antifreeze/coolant on the market that contains no water and is nontoxic. No water means no acid buildup or evaporation. It can be reused and lasts indefinitely. 
Check out evanscoolant.com

ChanW

Boy, that's interesting. Might be worth the price if no need to change coolant ever again.

I wonder if the freeze protection stays constant as well as the PH.

I also wonder if it would protect my home boiler & radiant system from corrosion (steel pumps)!

Dalehelman

I use it our 2015 JeepGC. It has a boiling point of over 300* and freezing protection to around -65* which does not change over time. It also does not expand as it heats up. There for the Jeep’s cooling system is not under pressure like water  based coolants allowing hoses to last much longer and no chance of bursting. To date I have found no down side except maybe  initial cost.

ChanW

Well for the Tab, the initial cost is negligible, when figuring no need for future glycol exchanges (especially if time is factored in - my hourly rate, when I do RV work... )
Thanks for the info!

dragonsdofly

@Dalehelman, I have read in the Evan's coolant usage recommendations that It says the coolant should be used in closed systems. The coolant will readily absorb moisture from the air and then become contaminated, and the water then contained within acts exactly as does the water in the alde glycol, becoming acidic. From what I have read and come to understand about the alde is that the system operates with an air cushion and has a bleeder valve, therefore, it is not a closed system. The lifetime coolant wouldn't be recommended for the alde then, would it? Am I misreading this, or misunderstanding? 
-Denise

Dalehelman

@dragonsdofly It seems you have discovered something I was not aware of. I agree the Alde is not a closed air tight system. Thanks as a result the product I suggested is probably not an alternative as I had  hoped. 

Dalehelman

dragonsdofly said:

@Dalehelman, I have read in the Evan's coolant usage recommendations that It says the coolant should be used in closed systems. The coolant will readily absorb moisture from the air and then become contaminated, and the water then contained within acts exactly as does the water in the alde glycol, becoming acidic. From what I have read and come to understand about the alde is that the system operates with an air cushion and has a bleeder valve, therefore, it is not a closed system. The lifetime coolant wouldn't be recommended for the alde then, would it? Am I misreading this, or misunderstanding? 
-Denise

@dragonsdofly I believe the air cushion you are referring to is in the hot water tank not on the boiler side. The bleeder valve is to allow the removal of any trapped air in fluid side of the system. I think the only air can enter the fluid side is through the filler cap. I will have to check and see if that cap is vented or air tight.

BrianZ

@dragonsdofly, I believe Dale is correct that the air cushion is inside the hot water boiler, not in the glycol system.  I wouldn't think there'd be enough air exposure in the expansion tank to absorb much water.  They do have a procedure for checking for water absorption using a refractometer.  Still, I would expect that even a small percentage of water content would significantly improve any exposure to corrosion & expand the lifetime of the fluid way beyond what we get with the 50% water we use now.  

@Dalehelman, I wasn't sure which of their many products you were suggesting, but I would guess this one..

Wow, $60/gal - not cheap!  This appears to be the only one that's propylene glycol based, though they don't explicitly state whether it's a food grade propylene glycol.
They appear to suggest using their flush fluid, but those general instructions say, "EWC and Prep Fluid should be considered toxic."  That seems contrary to the idea of using a non-toxic propylene glycol fluid in the first place.
Still, would be a great solution for not having to worry about it ever again.

dragonsdofly

@Dalehelman, @BrianZ, following.

N7SHG_Ham

It seems a more scientific approach to Alde fluid changes would be measuring the critical parameters of your fluid once a year and change when warranted. Much like oil sampling rather than dumping at 3000 miles or whatever the owner's manual says. I have oil sampled my truck a couple times and 10k intervals seem good to go still, no where will you find extended oil changes mentioned or recommended by the manufacturer. I suspect the two year change interval is kind of a very conservative interval to be on safe side, but may vary quite a bit depending on location (humidity) usage and so on.

Brake fluid is also hydroscopic and some auto makes recommend changing every 24 months, VW for one. How many actually do that? I had never done that in 30 years of vehicle ownership until I bought a VW. It is a good practice and VW is correct in that recommendation but few probably do it and brakes likely still work, I don't recommended ignoring manufacturer advice, but also remember some of it is a liability risk reduction.

On the heating coolant, I wonder if there is additive that could bring the PH back in balance? Those additives exist for heavy-duty truck antifreeze and testing and correcting rather than dumping and replacing is normal procedures and running many years to even "lifetime" isn't unheard of.

falcon1970

N7SGH_Ham  Much like the Air Force taking "SOAP" samples after every flight.  Spectroscopic analysis is probably beyond the capability (and interest) of most vehicle owners.  I agree that analysis would be a better procedure but I expect getting your samples analyzed would end up being more expensive than changing at periodic intervals.  As an aside, I have noticed that the oil change places--and even the dealers--keep recommending that the oil be changed every 3000 miles even though the owners manual (for my truck at least) says every 7500 miles.

Dalehelman

EVANS Cooling Systems EC53001 High Performance Waterless Engine Coolant, 128 fl. oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TPVI2TQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_UYA6Bb22CNWC7
This is what I use in our JeepGC. The prep fluid is only to remove small traces of water from the system.

Dalehelman

I have not replaced our Alde fluid with this product since the current fluids acid level is still at the same level as new. I am just putting this out for discussion. The great people in this group are excellent at dissecting ideas and offering their much appreciated input.

lkc001

Someone should forward this question on to Nucamp & see what their thoughts are?  Would be a great solution if viable!

Sharon_is_SAM

It would be better to call Spencer at Alde USA.

Dalehelman

Sharon_is_SAM said:

It would be better to call Spencer at Alde USA.

X2

jkjenn

Dalehelman said:

Sharon_is_SAM said:

It would be better to call Spencer at Alde USA.

X2

And send him a case if beer fir all if the crazy questions we T@b owners send his way. 

My concern would be whether the Evan's stuff was considered non toxic.