Grab handle ideas

MuttonChops

BrianZ said:

Good work, @MuttonChops, and interesting. 

Thanks, I plan to redo the contour gauge measurements as a double check of dimensions before proceeding with contacting NüCamp or just doing a handle install attempt.

BrianZ said:

. . . simply replace the screws in the exterior handle with bolts that go all the way through to the inside handle, holding both together . . .

. . . handle appears to be shallower than the inside door jamb, there would only be about a half inch of space for one's fingertips to wrap around the handle. . .

I also considered using the outside handle holes but feel the inside handle would be too low.

If the selected inside handle is too shallow then adding wood or metal shims to raise it should not be an issue. Actually started the sidewall model with the idea of placing a wood/metal plate between the door and window metal frames to use as the inside handle support base so handle could have more clearance from the screen door molding . . . but window frame is hidden by window screen molding . . . unless NüCamp says the widow has a 2x1 frame (not likely IMHO).

Homebodyatheart

@Michigan_Mike funny you should mention this... my last outing of the season in October, last morning we had a freeze and heavy frost. I quickly realized that if I didn’t hang on to something and go slowly I’d be in a hurting heap on the ground! Reggie went down first with no problems. I’ve got stick on carpet stair treads I may add. 

BrianZ

Interesting thought about a right angled handle mounting - that would definitely put it where you need it most, if it didn't get in the way.

I unscrewed my teak handle from the shower wall & tested for fit next to the front door.  I lined it up about a half inch from the edge of the screen door jamb, which was centered on the same line as the outside handle, and placed it about the same height.  (Not sure exactly what height is best, but probably shouldn't be too high. It seemed like it would be just fine there for grabbing while going out the door.  Because of the smooth round handle, it did not feel like it would entrap my fingers against the edge of the door jamb, and it does not stick out far enough to be in the way.

One other thing I wondered about is how the vertical wood shelf support is fastened to the wall.  I believe it may use pocket hole screws on the inside surface, which would be anchored into metal framing.  If that's the case, does that framing extend farther down below the wood, providing another option where one might also mount a handle?  I think it may be best to place it closer to the doorway, though a flexible looped strap handle might be fine there.
Was also thinking a handle by the door might also be "handy" when getting up out of bed.

BrianZ

Great idea, @MuttonChops, to use a base plate under the handle.  Now, where to get that piece of teak, and which router bit to use for making a nice chamfered edge around it.

I like you Nike idea - "Just Do It!".  A tiny pilot hole in the wrong place can always be filled with white caulk & you'd never notice it, but you'll know if you hit metal.

Sharon_is_SAM

@Brianz, I think the flexible strap idea sounds best.  It would not project as much so it would be out of the way and if you make it long enough, it can provide support beyond the door frame.

MuttonChops

BrianZ said:

. . . unscrewed my teak handle from the shower wall & tested for fit next to the front door. . . . seemed like it would be just fine there for grabbing while going out the door. . . . did not feel like it would entrap my fingers against the edge of the door jamb,

Good to Know, Thanks.

BrianZ said:

. . . flexible looped strap handle might be fine there.

Strap Handle will be a single point load on the mounting screw and that screw is only biting into the thin wall aluminum framing.  I'm more comfortable with the load split between two screws as with a Teak Handle, even then would consider a handle mounted here to be for balance not lifting usage (same as outside handle)

BrianZ

I might also consider using 4 screws by using a pair of these brackets to mount a strap at two points..

Lind Kitchen 2-Pack M6 Strip Type Eye Plate with Enclosed Hook 304 Stainless Steel Heavy Duty Ceiling & Wall Mount Hanging Hardware Fitting for Yoga Hammock Swing Marine Boat Application https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HNVFCR2

Homgaty 4Pcs 5mm 304 Stainless... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0779QLZ89

I like to make use of parts on hand when possible and would further consider using a piece of leftover water hose and some nylon rope anchored by those two brackets.

While this could provide some flexibility in extending around the corner a bit, I also think the solid feel of that teak handle might offer a greater sense of security.  I may end up trying this first, with the teak handle as a backup plan.    

Also found this board as a possible base plate for underneath a teak handle..
SeaTeak 60816 Teak Lumber Plank (7/8-Inch x 3 3/4-Inch x 12-Inch) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042A3ARO

PS:

I used a simple slip knot to tie this 1/4" nylon rope to a metal anchor, and it seems like it would be very sturdy if you pull it tight enough.  The end of the rope can be tucked inside, and the knot doesn't show much either.  Will test this with an Eye Plate when I get them.

BrianZ

Going to give this a try, as soon as I get some 3/4" stainless metal screws of the right diameter..

I used these smaller eye plate fasteners than listed in my previous post, which I've updated.  I held the plate between two boards in a vise, so I could pull the rope tight when tying the second knot.

jgram2

@BrianZ  It’s not only my descriptive faculties which are maxed apparently. Even with 2 points of attachment, won’t all of the weight be supported by the uppermost fastener?

BrianZ

Good question, @jgram2, and I would think no, not all, but probably more, depending on which direction the handle is being pulled.
It's a moot point for me now, as I am giving up on that last hose handle plan I showed.. 

I drilled a small test hole for the height where I would have wanted to mount it, and there was no metal framing in the wall there (about 4.5 inches below the wood frame, and about an inch from the screen door frame).  That was the same horizontal distance from the doorway as the screws in the outside handle, but higher up, so whatever framing the outside handle is secured to, it does not extend farther up.

I am now looking at using a similar piece of hose & rope, but longer, to form a loop-strap that I could hang from the vertical wood piece.  Still working on how to attach it, but currently looking at using the same two brackets on opposite sides of the wood, secured by the same pair of bolts.  Time to take a break & rethink. 

Sure would be nice if NüCamp could share the details of the inner wall structure.  Surely they know, or could easily find out.  Would make a modder's life a whole lot easier.

MuttonChops

Have had additional communication with nüCamp; Creed in Technical Support.

Sidewall Aluminum Frame is 1x1 and starts at the doorway cut-out.
Can be seen at the latch plate cut-out.
Outside Grab Handle does NOT mount/attach/screw into the Aluminum Frame.
# 10x1 ¼ screws bite into the fiberglass+Azdel+insulation foam.

Standard white plastic outside handle has Four Screws (single column stacked).

Quoting Creed:
There are 4 screws, 2 per end, and neither will hit a stud, they go straight into the sidewall with 10x1 ¼ inch Square HD Screws with 3M Tape on the back.

It is a simple process, and it can be replicated on the inside if the customer wants to – we would just recommend using the same screws and tape.

For the Teak Handle I'd like to use am expecting to need a spacer board/plate to raise the handle to a comfortable level outward from the screen door molding. Am playing with the idea of mounting that spacer board with a few screws angled into the aluminum frame.  While nüCamp says just use tape & screws I suspect the outside wall panel of fiberglass & Azdel is slightly stronger then the inside wall panel which lacks fiberglass (I believe).

jgram2

@MuttonChops Thanks for seeking clarification! Distinctly different from the information I got via email, but I can attribute that to the wording of my messages. I’m glad it looks doable!

BrianZ

Ok, here we go with the alternative solution using the wood framing for mounting..

I used just one bracket and two #10 1/2" stainless steel screws leftover from my kitchen ceiling project.  If they should ever come loose, I positioned the holes so that I can still drill the holes all the way through & use bolts.  It seems quite secure after some testing.

A closer view..

I wrapped the top with gray colored duct tape to give the loop of hose a nicer [teardrop!] shape.  I think I will actually get more use from this for getting up out of bed, but might be handy for going out the door too.


This was before the tape was added.


Just wanted to show here that it can easily swing out to the doorway if needed, otherwise can be tucked behind the door jamb. 

Note my small pilot hole in the wall, 4.5" below the wood & 7/8" from the door jamb, which failed to reveal any metal framing inside the wall for a wall-mounted handle.  It was easily filled & hidden with some  siliconized kitchen/bath caulk.  By the way, an almond color works great for concealing holes in this wallpaper.  It totally disappeared.

Will be interesting to see if any other solutions will be found, but this one seems to work well enough for me.

Sharon_is_SAM

@BrianZ, it looks like it is OEM.  That is simple and effective.  Nicely done!

BrianZ

Thank you, @Sharon_is_SAM!
Glad you like it. 
Maybe @Bill@ndRox will find it useful too, or they may want to wait & see what @MuttonChops comes up with if they prefer a fixed handle.

Bill@ndRox

You folks are wonderful.  I'm wanting to try out everything, but I will wait just a little longer to see just what develops.  I'm thinking about a wooden handle that could be mounted hanging down from the  wooden shelf.  It would have to be a unique design and simple and "OEM" style (I too like the simplicity of some designs).  I'd feel better about grabbing something solid that wouldn't move, certainly not the screen door frame any longer.  I do really love your corded loop handle design and just may do that, if nothing else.  Thanks BrianZ and Mutton Chops.   Bill  from Bill@ndRox

MuttonChops

Am continuing to what-if different handle mounting options. Will be using the same Teak Handle placed in the bathroom & outside the bathroom door (earlier modification post).

Whitecap 60114 Teak Handrail – 9-3/4"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GOML0W0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

While one source at nüCamp says just mount directly to the inter wall I remain concerned that will not provide enough support and in the end the handle could/would rip out-of-the-wall. So the what ifs include adding a spacer board under the handle - - this would both raise the handle and provide a larger surface area for the 3M tape and extra screws into the thin wall material - -. Or somehow mounting to the Valance Wood as Bill@ndRoc would like with a rigid instead of strap grab point.

Final choice will occur after the Teak Handle has arrived and real world handle placement dry fits can be completed to get better information on appearance, placement.
What Ifs Include:

Bill@ndRox

Wow, I am SO impressed with all of this marvelous engineering. Keep up the good work.  I’m getting so excited.  Bill

BrianZ

Interesting idea, @MuttonChops.  Is that a robot hand?   
I don't think an open ended handle hanging loose would work for a couple reasons..  (1) While it can be grabbed, a hand could slip off the end, which is why our local building codes require a "return" attachment at both ends of any stair handrail; and (2) It would act like a lever & tend to either pry the attachment point loose when pulled outwards, or pry the board loose.  

I could see a custom bar working, maybe something like this..

With the bottom attachment point placed either on the door frame or angled to the right for a wall attachment, as I think Sam may have suggested..  

Could be done with PVC pipe.

That teak handle is very nice looking though, and if I were doing the angled screws into the aluminum frame, I'd probably do the full length but narrower backing board & maybe even a second thinner board on top to hide the angled screws, maybe using pocket holes for those.  Then the handle could go through both, plus the wall.

PS:
One nice thing about this kind of collective problem solving is the potential to develop a larger knowledge base, with minimal risk for each participant who only needs to drill one hole.

Michigan_Mike

Anyone have any grab handles for the bathroom area of the T@B 400?  

Bill@ndRox

What about a grab handle mounted horizontally under the wooden shelf unit?  As long as you could get your hand around it, it might work. ....even the same OEM outside white handle could work if a spacer could allow a proper secure mount inside.  Yes, the teak is prettier. But while a vertical handle seems easier on the wrist, one could get used to a horizontal one. Is the horizontal wooden shelf very secure to the wall?  How so? (hoping so).

MuttonChops

Bill@ndRox said:

What about a grab handle mounted horizontally under the wooden shelf unit?  . . .

. . . same OEM outside white handle could work if a spacer could allow a proper secure mount inside.  Yes, the teak is prettier.

For myself a handle mounted that way would be too far away and require arm/wrist twisting.  Seems both of those work against providing a simple to use balance point.

As for the Outside White Plastic handle . . . no thanks . . . it is another factory installed lowest price point item just like those found on many other RV just mounted on our more upscale T@Bs.  Now the Boondock Handle is nicer.

Bill@ndRox

Right you are I all counts

Bill@ndRox

...in all counts

MuttonChops

BrianZ said:

Interesting idea, @MuttonChops.  Is that a robot hand?   

Yes, think so . . . .  I'm no artist & using another 'new to me' CAD program does not help.

BrianZ said:

. . . would act like a lever & tend to either pry the attachment point loose when pulled outwards, or pry the board loose. 

After I completed the drawing had the same thoughts on Lever Action.  If I do go with that solution will tell myself it is a balance point not a pry bar.
With only a Balance Point in mind came across another solution to consider.  Using a Teak Hook.  The one I've found is fairly robust and intended for hats and coats.  It could be mounted right up against the screen door molding and would be dual function.  A simple balance point and the hooks provide extra storage spot while inside

Another usage might be to create a wood version of the twisted grab bar with the upper hook connecting to the grab handle lower end . . . will have to play with that . . . suspect its really overkill and too much extra work . . .

Bill@ndRox

Bill@ndRox

This was my first attempt at a grab bar.  Worked great and looked fine to boot and doubled as a coat or pants hook at night.  BUT, the suction cups failed, so tried Elmers and Wood Glue, to no avail.  The support is what I'm looking for and kind of wish I could figure out a way to attach this handle.  It's got a comfortable and firm feel to it.   Purchased at BedBath&Beyond with 20% coupon.  I have these in my showers at the house and reinforced with Elmers.  They work great as balance points, not intended for supporting full weight.  Just thought I'd share this info to the pot.

Sharon_is_SAM

Here is another thought that may be overkill and project too far.  If you had a very long grab bar, could you attach one end to the end of the upper shelf and the other end to the top edge of the wood frame surrounding the hatch door for under- bench storage?

Bill@ndRox

Sort of like on a bus...hmmm

MuttonChops

Bill@ndRox said:

This was my first attempt at a grab bar.  Worked great and looked fine to boot and doubled as a coat or pants hook at night.  BUT, the suction cups failed, so tried Elmers and Wood Glue, to no avail. 

Nice Handle & a plus you already own it.  Modifying it to mount without suction cups will take some planing but seems very doable.  Have you considered:

-- Rip out the suction cup hardware. Might need to glue/screw locking levers in place.
-- Fill suction cup area with a hard or at least firm material. Glue/bond filler material** to handle plastic.
-- Drill pilot holes in plastic & filler, at least two at each end.
-- 3M Tape filler material bottom to T@B wall then screw with #10 screws like nüCamp does for outside handle.

** Filler material does not need to be a prefect circle or fit, you can fill voids with epoxy for example. Filler material bottom does need to be level and same height at each end.