Grab handle ideas

Bill@ndRox

Interesting. I thought the whole point was the secure attachment to the wall. There seems to be nothing there but foam.  Love your idea though.

MuttonChops

Bill@ndRox said:

. . . thought the whole point was the secure attachment to the wall. There seems to be nothing there but foam.

Yes, you are correct.  However, nüCamp themselves use and suggested the 3M tape and screws into foam.  Revisit my Nov-27 Post quoting nüCamp.

Your handle does have a large wall surface area (if suction cup area filled in) that would be more compatible with the nüCamp method then the handles/hooks I've been considering.

BrianZ

@Bill@ndRox, it looks like you have been holding out on us!  Maybe you should have started with your photo & info about the suction cup handle!  

It seems now like your issue is not really that you needed an idea for a handle & don't know what would work, since you already have a nice handle that "worked great" - You just need a method of attaching it more permanently to the wall.
So, just do what @MuttonChops said.  If NüCamp can use screws & adhesive to attach the outside handle & suggests doing the same inside, then why not?

Maybe we should have asked you up front if you have tried anything first; but at least this hasn't been a waste of time for me, since I now have a grab handle that works if I should need it (or to hang a towel), and we also know more about the [lack of] wall framing.
In any case, I wish you good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Bill@ndRox

Dear BrianZ and others,
Thanks for your comments and great ideas. I had completely given up on the suction cup handle and was going in another direction and putting out a plea for other ideas. It does look like there was interest stirred up and shared safety egress concerns.  I think this has been a very beneficial discussion and could only lead to a good product in the end with several options. Perhaps even NuCamp would consider the groundwork already laid and come up with a standard good design sturdy  egress handle.  Again, thanks.    Bill

jgram2

@Bill@ndRox Thank you for initiating this conversation. We carry the suction handle when we travel as some motel bathtubs are a problem. But, it doesn’t always stick well, any surface irregularities prevent the suction from adhering. Haven’t tried it anywhere in the T@B.

Bill@ndRox

I’ve tried it on the shower wall and next to the front door before exiting.  Worked well for short time (one outing) but even when glued in place with wood glue it worked loose. The handle is nice, comes in several colors, less than $30, has a nice feel and rubber grip in back for hand.  I think I will try BrianZ’s suggestion and get 3M tape, #10 screws, remove the suction cups, fill the voids in the handle, and figure out the strongest location to put the screw holes.  I wish I were just a little more mechanically inclined. Necessity is the mother of invention once again. I’m up for the challenge.  There’s been some very creative minds working on this one. Thanks.

Bill@ndRox

not sure how or why this post was included in the Grab Handle chain

Bill@ndRox

Thanks, that would help to modify it so it shows it's a Grab Handle comment.  I couldn't figure out why it was connected to the chain.  But, I think all comments are welcome.  I appreciate your thoughts.  Don’t need an elevator quite yet.

Homebodyatheart

@Bill@ndRox I think you need to give yourself more credit for being mechanically inclined! You think creatively and aren’t afraid to try things out. I would like a handle on the left side going out the door as that seems to be where I naturally go to grab a hold of something. I’m following this thread with into! BTW on the bed and extension mod I did not make a 5x5 pillow for the gap, but used the space to store extra blankets and beach towels. Thanks again!  

Bill@ndRox

Thanks Homebodyatheart. Great storage idea from one who may keep the wider bed set up. Now I’m contemplating using a wooden clothes rod vertically and attaching bottom end down by the fire extinguisher and the top end to the end of the wooden shelf.  Maybe use U bolts or just drill holes in the pole for the screws or bolts.  Like a grab pole on the bus.  Set out enough to get your hand around it.  I’m not rushing into this as you may see.  Again, thanks for your kind words.  Bill

BrianZ

Maybe PVC connectors could work to attach a pole?..

Search for "pvc table cap" on Amazon.

MuttonChops

Am still searching / thinking about what's the best solution for my T@B - - -
While dry fitting Teak Handle using different backing board & metal bracket options decided to pop top corner cover on the Screen Door Frame. Frame is two piece and it might be possible to drill holes and mount a grab handle to the Plastic Frame with screws into the Aluminum Wall Frame.

For this approach am considering removing (notching) the vertical bead (Blue Circle) so the handle will sit on the plastic . . . other option is to notch the handle of course . . .

MuttonChops

Well decided to proceed with the Dec-03 idea of mounting on the Screen Door Plastic Frame.  Was simple to do and screws do go into the metal wall frame.  The handle's mounting surface does overlap the right (window) side of the frame . . . have not decide if I'll add some wood or metal trim to fill the area.

COPY this Method at Your Own Risk

BrianZ

Looks nice, @MuttonChops . 
I don't understand though..
It says, "Plastic Frame Notched & Drilled", but the illustration above that appears to show the wood handle is notched.  Plastic frame close-up photo is so low resolution that it's hard to get an idea of what the blob is that I see at the right edge of the frame.
Impressed that you were able to get screws into the metal frame though - that's good!  Do you think it seems secure enough to work?

MuttonChops

BrianZ said:

. . .  says, "Plastic Frame Notched & Drilled", but the illustration above that appears to show the wood handle is notched. 

Yes, illustration could be viewed that way.  Notching wood seemed more difficult than just cutting the soft plastic.  More so since I never manage to cut anything straight 

BrianZ said:

Plastic frame close-up photo is so low resolution that it's hard to get an idea of what the blob is that I see at the right edge of the frame.

BrianZ said:

Do you think it seems secure enough to work?

Yes, think so or at least hope so . . . time will tell.  The slight left-right movement seems to be a combination of long screws and the plastic frame not being rigidly attached to the wall.  The plastic frame can twist, move left-right, even without a handle installed.  If it becomes a concern then:

- - Adding trim piece under the handle overlap might help.

- - Or might wedge some metal under the plastic . . . something like nüCamp did mounting the screen door frame.

BrianZ

Thanks @MuttonChops , it is clearer now.
How 'bout something like this, which is still an option for you too..

Two 1x boards glued & screwed together to form a base going around the corner would add stability, plus extra strength by angling additional screws through the side board into the metal frame as you had mentioned earlier.
I would suggest notching the back of the board, which would be easy to do with a router, but could also be done with two parallel shallow saw cuts & chiseling out the wood inbetween.  This would increase stability too.
You might want to round off the four front-facing corner edges, another job that's easy to do with a router, though a file or rasp & sandpaper can work too.

MuttonChops

Did consider something like your 'L Bracket Support' in both wood & metal but decided it would require tools and skills, due to pieces needing ripping/cutting with accuracy, beyond my resources.

Bill@ndRox

BrianZ or Muttonchops, Do you know how the horizontal wood shelf is secured to the wall over the window? Seems tight but wonder if it’s anchored into aluminum studs at all or just stuck on with 3M and #10 screws?

MuttonChops

Bill@ndRox said:

BrianZ or Muttonchops, Do you know how the horizontal wood shelf is secured to the wall over the window? Seems tight but wonder if it’s anchored into aluminum studs at all or just stuck on with 3M and #10 screws?

No idea, information here.

BrianZ

Amazing how you can create those scale drawings with such precision @MuttonChops , despite the odd shapes.  I bet I could make those wood pieces with just hand tools, though it would take more work. 
Was also thinking an inexpensive pocket hole drill jig could be useful for the angled holes on the right side..
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00065WPP2

Don't know for sure, @Bill@ndRox, but I'd be surprised if the shelf was not screwed into aluminum framing' as that is a fair amount of wood & it is designed for holding stuff.  But then, I was surprised by the outside handle.  I recall seeing some pocket hole screws somewhere, I think on one of the shelf units, but not sure if it was going into the wall.  NüCamp should know.

Bill@ndRox

     I called Elsie (Parts Dept) at NuCamp today with a few questions regarding framework.  She is sending me drawings of the framework in the 320S Outback.  I anticipate that these will be the same as what we've already seen, but it's worth a shot to have more.  She said there's no metal studs above the passenger side window or valence wood shelf unit and that the shelf unit is taped and screwed into the side wall.  I was hoping that the wood shelf (valence) was screwed into metal studs so it would be very sturdy. (In hopes that I could attach a vertical grab bar from the end of the valence down to the wooden wall where the fire extinguisher is, like on a bus). 
     On the other hand, how about this thought?  Attach another grab handle to mirror the outside handle, but mount inside, using the same screw holes right through the wall and bolt the handles together with the wall in-between.  Perhaps also a face plate under the handles just for more support for the 3M tape.
     Elsie also said she would pass along my suggestion to the R&D folks about the safety issue that they have an opportunity for improvement for egress safety with development of a safe grab handle and that there is quite a bit of interest and discussion on this topic from the T@b Forum community.  I will post the drawings of the framework when I get them.

ScottG

Now I wonder what the outside handle is attached to. Is it just screwed into the wall material? If so, it sounds like @Bill@ndRox's suggestion would be great way to reinforce both handles!

MuttonChops

Bill@ndRox said:

     I called Elsie (Parts Dept) at NuCamp today with a few questions regarding framework.  She is sending me drawings of the framework in the 320S Outback.

Looking forward to seeing what Elsie sends . . . maybe getting the information is just a matter of asking the correct person/department.  Will see how near our 'group guess' from tour pictures and tech support comments we are.

Preliminary V4

Bill@ndRox said:

. . . Attach another grab handle to mirror the outside handle, but mount inside, using the same screw holes right through the wall and bolt the handles together with the wall in-between.  Perhaps also a face plate under the handles just for more support for the 3M tape.

I did consider that approach.  For me the inside handle would be too low and the lower part of inside handle might interfere with the seat back cushion.  You may need in oversize the hole so a metal sleeve can be used between the outside & inside handle so tightening the bolt does not compress the sidewall . . . no idea how much compression the Azdel and foam will take.

Bill@ndRox

ScottG, The outside handle is secured to the wall by 3M tape and screws according to Elsie.  I may be back to the BedBathBeyond grab handle idea afterall.  I still love that handle and now am looking for one that can be screwed on instead of suction cups.  I'm not crazy about removing the suction cups and using filler, but may have to do that after all.  Thanks MuttonChops for your input over the weeks.  You and BrianZ are awesome with your technical ideas and diagrams/photos.

BrianZ

@Bill@ndRox - using the same bolts to hold inside & outside handles together.. Why didn't I think of that?  Oh wait, I did - at the bottom of the first page of this topic!  

Bill@ndRox

...But MuttonChops thinks the inside handle would be too low.  I'm not too sure about that when you're stepping downward anyway.  I wouldn't mind reaching down to waist level, holding on, and stepping down with a good, secure grab handle.  Here's what ADA says: 

 ...www.ada.gov/FontanaattH3.htm  Ensure that the grab bars are mounted 33 to 36 inches above the finished floor; with a diameter between 1¼ and 1½ inches; with 1½ inches between the g …

I haven't had a chance to look yet at just where the handle would be located inside if mounted with thru bolts opposing the outside handle.  

re: OXO Good Grips Suction Grip Bar.  I heard back from OXO company regarding their suction cup handle.  They don't have this product with a screw mount.  There are tons of screw in grab handles to pick from thru a Google search.  Mounting is the issue at hand onto the foam T@b wall.

MuttonChops

Bill@ndRox said:

...But MuttonChops thinks the inside handle would be too low

. . . . Ensure that the grab bars are mounted 33 to 36 inches above the finished floor

That is "too low" for Me. My installed handle is about 37-inch at the handle center.

Yesterday while doing something else on the trailer found using the grab handle was like it had always been there, believe this will be a good modification.

Bill@ndRox said:

. . .  tons of screw in grab handles to pick from thru a Google search.

Mounting is the issue at hand onto the foam T@b wall.

If the handle has more than one screw at each end and good 3M Tape surface area mounting into the Adzel & foam as nüCamp does (for outside handle) should be OK - - - at least that is what one of their emails says - - -

Side Note:

Any news on the sidewall drawings from nüCamp, are they being emailed or USPS shipped?

Bill@ndRox

No news yet on the drawings.  I’ll call Elsie again.

Bill@ndRox

I had response back from Elsie Miller at NuCamp yesterday.  She sent two drawings.  The second one had these comments attached by her:  "Here’s what I found for the Tab 320 S Passenger Side Side wall. The areas that are rectangular and have a dashed line and lighter gray colored line are places that have EGS/Structure. I added a few dimensions to help them locate the structure in the area near where the grab handle is typically installed.
(Items have numbers used by suppliers to build the sidewalls.  They are not measurements).  
These are INTERIOR VIEWS, not EXTERIOR as labeled, per Elsie.  EGS=electro galvanized steel.  There is an open space in the wall between #4 vertical and the door frame.  See drawings in attachments below.

MuttonChops

@Bill@ndRox thanks for posting the drawings.

I don't see any difference between DS(9220) and DS(9223) am I missing something?

The usage of EGS makes more sense then just screwing the cabinets, etc directly into Azdel & Foam.  I would assume the EGS is on the exterior side of the foam at the entry grab handle and on the interior side of foam at cabinet mount points (like zones 9 & 11).

Quick web-search suggests EGS sheet backing metal is 20 - 25 gauge which gives the screws a bit of extra bite.

Would be nice to heard from some of our Mechanical Engineering background members on this new data.