Tongue Weight

Trailpixie

so I’ve been learning about towing my T@B outback, and it’s been going well with my turbo Forester.  The friction sway bar makes a huge difference to stability.  It drives like a train in even the windiest conditions.

but....interestingly, I finally checked the tongue weight and found it was 110 pounds. I know that the recommendation is that the tongue weight should be 10% of the trailer’s total weight which would be about 200 pounds. So....I’m pretty far off that recommendation.

I assume that if I towed with freshwater in the tanks that I would get closer.  Winter is coming, so I won’t be doing that, and generally I am trying to keep my trailer towing weight as low as possible.

I dont know know if I want to go all the way to 200 pounds, but I think it’d be a good idea to get a bit more weight on the tongue.  

I could take the the tire off the rack on the back and put it on the tongue, but I assume that would add too much (subtract from the rear and add to the front would add a lot to the front).

I think my current plan is to take my 3-gallon water jugs and put one or two of them on the front rack. I could easily move the water off if I needed.

does anyone have any suggestions?

jkjenn

Trailpixie said:

so I’ve been learning about towing my T@B outback, and it’s been going well with my turbo Forester.  The friction sway bar makes a huge difference to stability.  It drives like a train in even the windiest conditions.

but....interestingly, I finally checked the tongue weight and found it was 110 pounds. I know that the recommendation is that the tongue weight should be 10% of the trailer’s total weight which would be about 200 pounds. So....I’m pretty far off that recommendation.

I assume that if I towed with freshwater in the tanks that I would get closer.  Winter is coming, so I won’t be doing that, and generally I am trying to keep my trailer towing weight as low as possible.

I dont know know if I want to go all the way to 200 pounds, but I think it’d be a good idea to get a bit more weight on the tongue.  

I could take the the tire off the rack on the back and put it on the tongue, but I assume that would add too much (subtract from the rear and add to the front would add a lot to the front).

I think my current plan is to take my 3-gallon water jugs and put one or two of them on the front rack. I could easily move the water off if I needed.

does anyone have any suggestions?

Sandbag or kitty litter bag. Also good in case you need traction. My dad always had a heavy bag of sand in the bed of his little GMC pickup truck. 

rcuomo

I’m no expert but unless you have a ton of weight on the roof rack and behind the axle I fail to see how your tongue weight is 110#.  Maybe I’m missing something but with a full LP tank and the type 24 battery the stock tongue weight should be close to 200#. 

jkjenn

rcuomo said:

I’m no expert but unless you have a ton of weight on the roof rack and behind the axle I fail to see how your tongue weight is 110#.  Maybe I’m missing something but with a full LP tank and the type 24 battery the stock tongue weight should be close to 200#. 

Agreed...unless something was done like moving the battery inside or other things to intentionally lower the tongue weight., which it sounds like is possible.

GibW

Agree... 110 seems very low. We tow very lightly packed but with battery, propane and spare tucked under the back we’re just under 200. 

mreric

how are you measuring your tongue weight ?

Trailpixie

The only thing I added on the behind the axle is a 20 lb (max) mattress topper stored behind the bench seat. 

I added a second AGM battery in the battery box on the tongue so that should more than balance that out (obviously).

i weighed it with a bathroom scale directly under the coupler. I made sure that it was at the exact same height as the car’s ball when it was being towed (which is pretty much exactly level).

Trailpixie

Yep 110 seems ridiculously low, but...if it was filled with water and a little bit in the holding tanks, that would get me more than halfway there. 

Has as anyone else weighed theirs? Their outback?

Sharon_is_SAM

The base tongue weight of the boondock is heavier than that.  If you are doing your tongue weight correctly, then that suggests either the TaB was not level (tongue too high) or too much rear weight.

treefrog

I would like to weigh myself on your scale. Maybe I have finally lost some weight.

rcuomo

rcuomo

Using a digital scale and following the procedure as shown you should get a fairly accurate measurement. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@treefrog, 🤣

DougH

FWIW, when I have three AGM batteries and an inverter in the back storage, full propane, empty BW GW FW tanks, and the spare tire in the stock location, the tongue weight is 118lbs (bathroom scale at level).  Too low.

Filling the FW tank and putting a Honda generator on the front rack bumps that up to 165lbs.

Moving spare to tongue, and taking generator back off the rack raised it up to 177lbs.

Taking off the spare completely, but putting the generator back on...  186lbs (generator weighs more than the spare). 

And finally with spare and generator up front: 222 lbs (still with FW full).  If I didn't have the heavy battery bank in back that would be more like 300+ lbs (too heavy). 

Luckyj

rcuomo said:

Just so people that will not read the complete instruction, using the figure B as procedure is only require if the weight is beyond the typical standard range of 300 lbs or the max weight of the scale you will be using.  Also recomended that you use a piece of wood that will disperse the weight on the scale, avoiding a tiny point.

MuttonChops

Trailpixie said:

Yep 110 seems ridiculously low, ...

Has as anyone else weighed theirs? Their outback?

While not a full feature Boondock/Outback my T@B has the pitched axle and front rack (Outback platform).  Have one Tongue Weight data point with T@B Coupler at towing height:

    Tongue Weight              204 pounds
    Coupler Height (TOP)     18-inches
    Tanks                            2gal W 16%; 7gal B 85%; 14gal G 75%.
    Spare                             mounted at Jack Post
    Battery                           Grp-24
    Propane                         Full tank
    Platform boxes              None

mreric

i had asked a similar question.   i do still wonder if anyone else can confirm the tongue weight.   

ckjs

I worried about tongue weight a lot before buying a 2018 320 CS-S last month, since our 2013 Subaru Outback has only a 200 lbs tongue rating.  We avoided the Boondock versions because of that. However, weighing ours with a bathroom scale under the coupler showed 180 lbs with propane & stock battery, no water, everything level. That's 30lbs lighter than the spec.  Fortunate for us, but quite curious.

mreric

This something that has me wondering.   How accurate is the number provided from nucamp ?   How accurate can we be as a consumer and question nucamp numbers ??  Is not the first time I have seen the number from the manufacturer be wrong.   

I felt the back of my car bounced a bit more then i liked when it was  empty towing of the dealer lot.   once I added a 25 to 30 pounds to the tongue with a storage box the bounce was reduced and ride was much better. 

Without me measuring it.  I suspect the numbers from nucamp might be a bit off.   The number from nucamp shows to be a very balanced trailer right off the dealer lot. My experience shows otherwise.    It needs a bit more weight at the tongue.  Some post from other members stated that their ride improved when moving the spare to the tongue.  this mean it needs more weight at the tongue.    

Trailpixie

I weighed it again. 120 pounds again. I tested the scale. It has the right weight for me (unfortunately).

I put two 3-gallon water jugs on the storage platform. I figure that probably added 20 or 30 pounds to the tongue weight--getting it to around 150 pounds (I didn't re weigh). It didn't bounce as much as before. 

jgram2

If you use the old adage “a pints a pound the world around”, you’ve added ~ 48 pounds to the tongue weight.

BrianZ

I've been wondering about our tongue weight since replacing the battery with an 85 lb golf cart battery, mounting the spare tire on the tongue, and replacing rear stabilizers with scissor jacks plus about 15 lbs of steel support framing added to the rear.  So I finally got this new weight of 206 pounds, which includes traveling supplies in storage compartments, except frig items, empty water & waste tanks, and does not include the offsetting 25 plus 50 ft 30-amp cables that we normally store behind the back seat, so this weight may be a bit more or less than actual.  Thinking we are fine, but haven't weighed the trailer yet for figuring the tongue weight prercentage.

MuttonChops

BrianZ said:

LOL  . . . . . the same "full size" bathroom scale I purchased to measure tongue weight.

TerryV6

I'll be watching your answers in this discussion @BrianZ.  You must have removed the Trojan battery.  I am on this tongue weight thing myself.  My trailer has an outback platform with two boxes.  One contains my drain hoses etc and the other is for my wheel locks and cables.  I've added the bike rake that Mandy has.  I had a wheel mount up front.  This might have to go.  Have to weight and see. (grin).  I have a 60 pound battery and the propane tank.  
  Now, first thing, I'm going to weigh the trailer.  There a weight scale in Oshkosh, about 30 miles south of here.  That will give me my base i think..  Then I'll bring it back to base and do some weights with bikes and without and with and without the wheel.  That will give me some numbers.  If one has to go, it will be the wheel I think.  I bet right now I'm at about 350 or so, which is too heavy.  I was told my Ram truck doesn't really figure into this....  So...  then my wife said I should look into a weight distribution hitch.  Not sure if that is an idea...

205 pounds seems on the light side for your setup, but perhaps you've counter balanced well..

When weighing my trailer, what would you have attached in doing this?  Bikes, extra wheel?  Also, have to see the procedure in the process.  One guy said that the weigh station will tell me what to do...

Going to the NuCamp rally?

rcuomo

Stock 2018 320S lightly loaded checks in at 286.5# with almost full propane, empty waste and water, spare on tongue, Stromberg Carlson platform a-frame bike rack and 2 bikes. 

BrianZ

Funny, @MuttonChops, & we've had ours for years before we got our T@B.  Glass, but It says limit=400lb, so way more than we'd ever need, at least I hope!

@TerryV6, no, we've still got our 85lb Trojan 1275/150AH GC battery in the tub & spare tire on the jack.  I double checked the height of my wood post on the scale & it was exactly the same as the leveled tongue. Propane tank is full, but we don't have any bike rack or extra box, just plastic tub.  Though we do have a bunch of solar cables, security cables, hoses, metal shelf units, wood blocks, etc stored behind & under rear seat.  I think you should weigh the trailer loaded with how you plan to travel.

@rcuomo, your weight sounds comparable to ours, after accounting for your platform, bike rack & bikes.

Like you, @TerryV6, I've been wanting to get our trailer weighed, so went today to the nearest town with scales & got it done for $9..


First put the front tires on the scale, then front & rear, then pulled off leaving just trailer tires on scale for trailer axle weight.  That's what the guy suggested to get weights for all 3 axles.

At first glance it appears our tongue weight I got at home was almost exactly 10%, but now I'm thinking it's more like 9.2% if you add the tongue weight back into the trailer weight.  Some procedures I've read say it should be 9-14% rather than 10-15%, so maybe we're close enough?  I did load bicycles & popup tent (& wife) into the van, but still need to add cooler, clothes, chairs, etc.
Maybe if I added another storage box to the tongue & moved some hoses &/or cables there, we may be better off.

MuttonChops

Here is Another CAT Scale Report.

TabberJohn

@BrianZ -- 
Gross axle weights are useful to know, but one more step would have provided actual tongue weight.
See: https://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-determine-trailer-tongue-weight.aspx
It adds a couple minutes to the procedure but it's worth it if there isn't a line behind you at the scale. ;-)

BrianZ

Thanks, @MuttonChops - your report data prompted me to dig into our Sienna owner's manual & also found the vehicle weight ratings sticker inside the driver's door next to the tire pressure sticker.  So here's a comparison of our weights versus Toyota's limits allowed..

2005 Toyota Sienna Weight Ratings (lbs)
   [vs. Our Actual Weights]:
GCVWR=  8700  [6940]
  (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating
    = Total TV + RV + contents)
GVWR=  5690. [4900]
  (vehicle, people, cargo, hitch & tongue load)
GAWR=  2845  [F: 2500, R: 2400]
  (front or rear axle)
Trailer + cargo=  3500  [2040 +206 tongue]
Weight-Carrying Hitch=  350  [206]
Tongue Load=  9 to 11%  [206/2246= 9.2%]
  (for weight-carrying hitch)
Brakes=  required for trailers > 1000 👍

It's possible we may add up to 75 more pounds, mostly to TV, but it looks like we are within specs in all areas.  But, it is good to know that we are near the low end of the tongue load percentage range, so can afford to add or move more to the tongue.  I would like to find a way to add a box or boxes to the tongue, but there is only about 6 inches of space left between the tub & spare.  

BrianZ

Thanks for that handy reference, @TabberJohn.  I already had what I believe to be an accurate tongue weight, so unhitching and rehitching after I had just hitched up at home sounds like a pain, but it's good to know that procedure is an option.  And there were indeed two huge rigs in line waiting for me to finish, so I already felt a bit rushed.
 
It seems to me that getting a 200 lb weight from a 0-400 lb range scale would be more accurate than looking for a 200 lb difference in a vehicle weighing 5000 lbs using a scale that ranges up to tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds.