Shutdown National Campgrounds?

DougH

On the RV Miles podcast this morning they said the 12/22/2018 federal shutdown probably won't completely close all national parks.  If it's like the last one, BLM and other boondocking areas may mostly be gone, but National Parks and Monuments will largely be open, but with dramatically less services like no trash pickup, bathrooms, showers, or dump stations.  Last time the piles of trash got pretty disgusting.

The Grand Canyon has already stated they will remain open with alternative funding found for supporting services.  That may be the case for selected other parks / monuments as well. 

This (non-political please) thread is just to report any first hand experiences of which federal lands to avoid until the USA is open for business again. 

http://timetravellerwiki.com/2018/12/22/national-parks-to-stay-open-without-staff-in-government-shutdown-thehill-the-hill/

ChanW

BLM  Boondocking areas would be shut down?

I don't understand how?

What am I missing?

DougH

I didn't understand that either since those are service free zones.  Maybe I misheard the podcast, or they misspoke, or it's a policy that dispersed camping is closed when there's no rescue folks around?  I only see that making any sense in the national forest land boondocking areas. 

DougH

Found some possible albeit old clarification... 

https://www.desertusa.com/dusablog/blm-faq-government-shutdown.html

Boat docks and some BLM  campgrounds closed, some BLM access roads closed, but most free camping areas still available.

In TX we don't have much BLM land but there's a bunch of paid and free RV camping run by the Corps of Engineers.  They've said that's all closed during shutdowns.

ChanW

Ok, thanks for looking into it. That makes more sense. 

Michigan_Mike

I understand the concept (of saying BLM lands are closed to camping/access) but don’t know how they’d be able to monitor or enforce it given the vast expanse of lands across the US?  Would be interesting to see how they are all fairing in Arizona as it’s a virtual city in some of the areas around Quartzsite and down in the SW corner of the state.  

db_cooper

I've found with national parks that they keep a fair number of enforcement rangers working, I imagine BLM does too.   So far in all the recent shutdowns every federal employee still gets paid whether they had to report, so it makes sense to keep enforcement on the job.

pthomas745

A lot of these determinations come down to "essential" and "non-essential" employees.  What one agency would consider essential, another agency might not.  So, there may be law enforcement employees working, but staffing at campgrounds or visitor centers will probably not be considered essential, so they close a campground or a visitor center. 

These shutdowns are real disasters for all agencies, no matter what.  I was an air traffic controller and was considered "essential" (after Congress mandated a hard shutdown and then realized that controllers would stay home, too) but our support staff and anyone in a training status were not considered essential.  We had to use overtime budgets to staff some crucial support functions with controllers. 

Ratkity

Essential employees have to report to work (even if they are on vacation). I'm a non-essential and just don't get paid. My friend (essential) has "use or lose" vacation time she was taking for a well-deserved break and was recalled to work. She loses the vacation time. Most managers with direct reports are recalled to come into the office for shutdown procedures for a half a day on Wed. 

Of the 800k workers with approx half non-essential, many workers live paycheck to paycheck (I'm ok). There is a paycheck that's supposed to be out on Dec 31 within the agency I work. That paycheck doesn't get processed. 

No politics, just think thoughts of strength for those who are struggling making ends meet during these holidays. Be gentle to those who are exhausted working double+ shifts to keep essential tasks going (e.g. wildfire firemen! [fire-people?] - just love to all of them). Military, I love you. I can't list all of you. Be safe, know this is not forever, and there are those who care.

ChanW

Yes, many military are working without pay too. 

Sorry to hear that.

Best wishes.

Ratkity said:

Essential employees have to report to work (even if they are on vacation). I'm a non-essential and just don't get paid. My friend (essential) has "use or lose" vacation time she was taking for a well-deserved break and was recalled to work. She loses the vacation time. Most managers with direct reports are recalled to come into the office for shutdown procedures for a half a day on Wed. 

Of the 800k workers with approx half non-essential, many workers live paycheck to paycheck (I'm ok). There is a paycheck that's supposed to be out on Dec 31 within the agency I work. That paycheck doesn't get processed. 

No politics, just think thoughts of strength for those who are struggling making ends meet during these holidays. Be gentle to those who are exhausted working double+ shifts to keep essential tasks going (e.g. wildfire firemen! [fire-people?] - just love to all of them). Military, I love you. I can't list all of you. Be safe, know this is not forever, and there are those who care.

DougH

The Corps Of Engineers parks all (EDIT: mostly) seem to be closed for now... 

Marceline

Yosemite is turning into a mess.
https://www.sfgate.com/outdoors/article/yosemite-bathrooms-open-gov-shutdown-park-closed-13500390.php

T@Balong

Not all Corps of Engineer parks are closed.........I don't know if it is a case by case situation but where we are headed in mid January has a notice that it will be open during the shutdown.

DougH

I wonder if some municipalities, counties, or states kick in some funding to certain COE sites... 

jkjenn

This was my experience in the Tetons in 2013....it was quite a show. It seems as though they are trying not to disrupt people's plans. 

Verna

Well, I guess I need to make alternative plans. I checked Death Valley’s website. Scotty’s Castle’s roads were heavily damaged during heavy rains, so it won’t open until 2020, and most of the other places I had planned on seeing in Death Valley are closed. 

Decisions, decisions......

jgram2

@Verna I’ve got it - Disneyland! 🤭

Verna

@jgram2, Sunny can't go there. But, she can go whale watching from the beach!  And, there’s sand for her to frolick in!

jgram2

That’s it! The desert with lots of water! You two have fun wherever you go🙂

jkjenn

Verna said:

Well, I guess I need to make alternative plans. I checked Death Valley’s website. Scotty’s Castle’s roads were heavily damaged during heavy rains, so it won’t open until 2020, and most of the other places I had planned on seeing in Death Valley are closed. 

Decisions, decisions......

Yeah, it has been closed for a while. There was tremendous damage back in 2015.

@Verna if you are on the Nevada side, there is a pretty cool BLM site called Gold Butte National Monument.

https://www.blm.gov/programs/national-conservation-lands/nevada/gold-butte

Verna

Thanks, @jkjenn. I’m playing “how many mods can I complete today”, and I haven’t thought much more about it. This is the 5th year in a row that I’ve planned on going to Death Valkey and it hasn’t panned out yet. I WILL see it one of these days. Thanks for the info. Right now thete’s a lot of snow between me and Flagstaff and then NV.....that might be seen on another trip. Alaska is for next summer, too!

Homebodyatheart

@Verna Alaska? It's amazing! So... will you be coming north via Eastern Washington and meet up with the SpoTabbers?  Just a suggestion! 

Verna

@Homebodyatheart, I will be traveling with a couple who own a Silver Shadow teardrop. Neither of us wanted to travel there alone, and I know the 3 of us will enjoy the sights. 

We will be entering Canada at Montana and coming back the same way. 

Don’t worry, I’ll get up your way, but probably not next year. I’ll only be “home” for about 6 weeks before üCamp19 and the 3 of us plus Sunny will leave for Alaska from there. We have absolutely no timetable, so I have no idea how long we will be gone. 

Marceline

More news:
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/In-shutdown-national-parks-transformed-into-Wild-13501925.php

DurangoTaB

Mesa Verde...https://durangoherald.com/articles/255915 We’ve had a lot of snow this week, don’t know if that windy 23 mile road up to to the park is plowed.

MuttonChops

The early 2018 shutdown fouled -up last year's snow bird adventure (motel hopping).

If this latest shutdown continues it will foul-up my upcoming T@B snow bird adventure which has two Federal campgrounds planned.  Not a happy camper - - that is Voter - -

Also; https://www.npr.org/2019/01/02/681535260/how-the-government-shutdown-is-affecting-national-parks 

How The Government Shutdown Is Affecting National Parks

January 2, 2019

jkjenn

The Larimer County sheriff is assuring tourists that they can still hike in the park and that emergency assistance is still available through the county. The park gates are closed for motor vehichles but you can hike, bike, or ski into the park. I believe the park CGs are all closed at this time of year, anyway. There are year 'round CGs in Loveland and other spots across the front range.

https://www.facebook.com/SheriffJustinSmith/posts/2033635823391583?__xts__[0]=68.ARBXH0rh-hQujnT8XFalFwjcVDNDFt4KRnMkzIqIIQph89Z_J2wjmObAxpsMq1ZABLe7HSbSnS03OiC72LE2aWBqIkMZLyKWXXGP_0E23MVCLTy6Ha6V0_vVf82o_ryrb00eZJxUbQ2McolwwrkHWf2QgNUQ7nvwE0Go61tJML8qAEaJM4E7fooLbHGv2JLYZhm27fN1_lrsiY8fyg6aCFTD1z0I3-mO4PBh4Mqik5iA17cS6NMHDZxGQ63jesSZj2BfVI8UOlh3DmOYe5TYlW6Ja-5EkzKV_L65cWnS8iW9tIICFAVldpwgTujBDmDt19Q91uwg8U9obKNH4_yQ8Y2f2w&__tn__=-R

Photomom

If you all do visit a national park that is technically “open”, please, I beg you, clean up after yourselves and continue to follow posted rules. There are reports that trash is piling up, human excrement and TP is all over, people are off-roading where they shouldn’t be, and people are trampling ecologically sensitive areas. I read that people are even using metal detectors on the hallowed grounds of Civil War Battlefields.

The question should not be “Can I go?” But “Should I go, and do I know how to be a good steward when I get there?”

Travelin3D

@Photomom
+1

falcon1970

@photomom That ought to be our policy all the time--not just when someone might be watching!  There is an old outdoorsman adage that says "Always leave your campsite better than you found it."  I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but too bad we can't educate all the un-caring out there.

DougH

Behind Denver Post soft pay wall...

http://enews.denverpost.com/q/ZTgbtqxjfoukanbGlQtOi20Xl0o9Wbu5Vc1mlbcsvfafC6oGnjDO7iYXVapQ

RMNP reaching garbage / toilet limits.