Hot Water Boost Function

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Pump humming.

Bayliss

@Sharon_is_SAM, I am confused about one of your posts above:

"Regarding the Alde heating water:  when the Alde is turned on without heating the cabin, the water needs time to warm to a default temperature.  The boost only works when you are heating the cabin.  Selecting boost, temporarily (30 min.) stops the hot glycol from circulating so cold glycol does not return to the Alde and cool the temperature.  Basically, the water benefits by the retained heat from the glycol.  So, unless you are heating your cabin, don't expect the boost to add to your hot water."

I understand that the circulating pump stops for approximately 30 minutes when you set the water (showerhead icon) to "boost" (i.e., fully shaded/black symbol).  However, I have been under the impression that you can temporarily boost the hot water temperature to approximately 149 degrees regardless of whether you have been heating the camper.

For example, if it was 90 degrees outside, you wouldn't want to be heating the cabin, BUT you may still want to take a hot shower.  In that scenario, shouldn't you be able to to temporarily increase the water temperature so that you can take that hot shower?

Also, I have not had a chance to test it yet, but I also am under the impression that if the hot water symbol is completely empty (effectively, "Off"), but you are heating the cabin, there will still be some "warm" water (possibly around 50 degrees F) in the Alde tank (assuming it has water in it), because the hot glycol is circulating around the tank.  Am I correct on that, or will the water remain cool and not be receiving any amount of external heat at all times when the hot water/shower symbol is empty?

Thanks!  (Greg)

Sharon_is_SAM

Edited to reflect my comments are regarding the Alde 3010 only.

@Bayliss, let me say that the Alde manual as translated leaves a lot left unsaid.  I spoke with the US Alde rep. - Spencer regarding this issue.  I remember collecting information from various sources including overseas discussions which shined some light on the Alde. 

When you turn the Alde on, the water "shower" icon gauge can not be turned off to "0".  Go ahead and check it to see if you can turn it off completely.  Mine always has the triangle half filled and you can not lower that so the triangle icon is empty.  There is a "+" which is your "boost" and there is a "-" in case you want to end the boost period before the 30 minutes interval.  Note the quote from the manual below.  They hint at this feature by saying the hot water function is automatic - because if the Alde is turned on, even when the thermostat is turned below ambient, the Alde heats water to a default temperature of 122 degrees.  "hot water is always available"

From the Alde Manual:
"USING ONLY HOT WATER When only hot water is required (for example during the summer), no settings need to be changed. The boiler will look after this function automatically."  

SET THE REQUIRED TEMPERATURE
"The (thermostat for the cabin) temperature can be set from +41°F/+5°C to +86°F/+30°C in steps of 1,0°F/0.5°C. Hot water is always available (122°F/50°C) when the boiler is on and running on LP Gas and/or electricity."

"However, I have been under the impression that you can temporarily boost the hot water temperature to approximately 149 degrees regardless of whether you have been heating the camper."   

The manual says "When you have selected more hot water the circulation pump stops."  That assumes that the circulation pump is active while heating the cabin.  The circulation pump does not work without cabin heat.  The manual does not say you can boost the temperature at any time, it just says that you can boost it and the pump stops circulating.  So, I guess, due to the translation, they leave it to your imagination to figure out that, without that process, your don't get a boost.  I also find it interesting that the manual on page 6 under "Using the Boiler - Domester Hot Water" says "You may temporarily increase the temperature of the hot water using the same thermostatic control panel that is used for space heating."  They refer to heating the cabin here as the boost is related.  

So, I say, go test it.  Turn on the Alde, turn the thermostat down to 41, let the water heat and check the temperature and make sure it heats up to 122.  Then hit the boost and wait and see what the temperature is after 25 minutes.  You can check the temperature on the Alde display Service Menu.

Check out the analog instructions on page 17 of the manual.  They do not have a boost function because there is no automatica stop and start of the circulation pump. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Edited:  this is specific to the 3010.

@Bayliss, I found some more info that may help explain the mystery.

When the cabin is not heating and the pump is not circulating, the hot water temp = 149 F.
When both heat and hot water are selected, the hot water is only 131 F.  So, it makes sense that when the pump stops during the boost, the heat is retained, resulting in the boost temp.  And, because when you only want hot water (summer) none of the heat is circulated away, so the water temp is hotter to begin with - no boost and no boost needed!  That makes more sense.

Bayliss

Thanks for the response and analysis of how the "boost" is supposed to work.

"YES" the Alde manual leaves a lot to be desired.  Very poorly worded in several locations, which is probably a big factor in all the confusion expressed by T@B owners.  I am taking our camper out for a trip in a couple weeks, so I will definitely test it out to see what happens.

Regarding the hot water (shower icon) and adjacent symbol, if I recall correctly, I was able to set it so that the symbol was empty.  Also, on page 17 of the manual it both depicts the symbol as being empty and states that you can make it empty by pressing the "-" button:


I believe your second post is the accurate description of what happens, and it does make sense.  Alde just needs to figure out a way to clearly convey that information in their manual.

This will probably just confuse things more, but IF I am correct in my understanding of how the Alde heats water, then what Alde is not clearly conveying is the following: 

"You truly have NO hot water only when both the cabin heating function is off, and the symbol next to the shower icon is empty."  [In other words, the only way to never have hot water is have the Alde system completely off.............I suppose this is why I am assuming that if the Alde is on, and even if you leave the symbol next to the shower icon empty, you're probably going to still have at least "warm" water.]

It almost seems as if the half-shaded symbol next to the shower head icon is totally unnecessary.  If you always have hot water available when heating the cabin, you don't need a half-shaded symbol.  You only need the half-shaded symbol to differentiate between no water and the default hot water temperature (122 degrees F.)  Therefore, the display screen really just needs to let you decide if you want (a) NO hot water, or (b) hotter water (i.e., the 149 degrees F "boost" rather than the always available (when the Alde is turned on) default temperature of approximately 122 degrees F.

Finally, I recently watched a (European) video on the Alde control panel, which tends to support what has been my understanding of being able to heat the water without having to first be heating the cabin.  Using my earlier scenario of it being 90 degrees outside, but you want to take a hot shower, it doesn't make sense that you have to first be heating the camper interior before you can switch to "boost," just so the circulating pump can turn off.

I'm really thinking that everyone's confusion about the Alde, and the reason new users of this forum raise the same questions that have been repeatedly asked over the past few years, boils down to a very poorly written manual.

Thanks again for your insight and input.  I very much appreciate it.  I just hope I haven't thoroughly confused others who may read my comments.  If so, and others can do a better job of explaining this whole hot water conundrum, I am very much open to their input.  (Greg)

Sharon_is_SAM

@Bayliss, I just realized - you have the 3020 model and I am referring to the 3010 model!  So sorry to confuse the situation!  But, I learned something.  I am looking at the 3020 manual.  Besides the 3020 having the built in high altitude adjustment, you can also turn off the hot water feature completely, whereas, the 3010 you can not.  Here is the 3010 info on hot water.

Bayliss

Thanks for letting me know @Sharon_is_SAM.  I too have learned from our discussion, so time well spent.  If nothing else, it is helpful to know that there are significant differences between the 3010 and 3020 because, as we have found, it is important to "be on the same page" when participating in forum discussions.  (Good idea re splitting off this discussion, by the way.)

I still intend to do some tests on my Alde to make sure I fully understand how it is designed to operate, including the high altitude feature.  So far it has worked great for me, but I really want to understand the system.  As an aside, I have added "Alde 3020" to my signature line in the event I participate in future Alde discussions.  I have found it extremely helpful when forum members include basic info about their camper, tow vehicle and where they are from.

Sharon_is_SAM

Good idea to add that to your signature line.  I did nit even think that they started using the 3020 in the 320s!