Fresh Water

wooper

Such great info here.  But can someone tell me how to turn the water pump on and off?

Sharon_is_SAM

dCliffhanger said:

dCliffhanger said:

jgram2 said:

@dCliffhanger, the instructions vary by the device you’re using. On my iPad, I need to change the orientation to horizontal to see my editing options. On smart phones, it’s different. Here’s a thread re .Android instructions if that happens to be what you’re using: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8233/android-phone-profile-and-signature-access

Thanks for that info...however, I am using a desktop computer with a screen big enough to see...  Maybe, though I use my phone, usually, as phone maybe I can modify my profile through it and it'll pass through to my desktop.

I just tried editing my profile via my Android and I get the same thing. Just my name and email. No other fields or other options to show more.  I can go into View and see my activity.  That's it.





@dCliffhanger, did you follow these phone steps exactly and turn the phone horizontal after selecting “Desktop View”?

Android Phone

1.  Sign in at the Home page:   https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/

2.  Locate the three dot additional info menu at the top right hand side.

3.  Select "Desktop View" from the menu.  Horizontal is easier to read.

4.  Tap the “gear” icon in the upper right corner.

5.  Select “Edit Profile”.

Your full-view Edit Profile menu appears on the left.
Signature Settings second from the bottom of the menu list.

Sharon_is_SAM

The pump rocker switch is on the See Level panel.  There should be a green light when it is turned on.

Sharon_is_SAM

@ZippyA,  (Make sure you use a filter at any source other than home.)

A.  When you turned on the faucets/shower at the dump station, your plumbing was no longer under pressure from the city water connection, so you would have incomplete emptying.  We drain our plumbing and Alde hot water tank at home before returning to storage.  Raise the tongue, open the yellow flapper and hot and cold water drain valves and empty it.  Then close valves.  It is important to drain your Alde tank to prevent bacterial growth as well as to establish a required tank air cushion.  
When you hooked up to city water, I suspect your lines and Alde tank were already full from your last trip, hence no sputtering.

B.  The water odor was likely due to the standing water.  

C.  You filled up the gray tank - hence your ankle bath.  Our experience is that the shower pan starts to fill between 80-85% on the SeeLevel.  FYI - You can get more in your gray tank by raising the tongue.

D.  Breaking camp:  If we have been on city water, we drain the black tank, use some water from the fresh tank to rinse it, then with the valve closed we add a gallon of water with Happy Camper and leave that dwell in between campings.  Add some water to the bowl on top of the closed flush outlet.  

Then, we empty the gray tank, use the sink to run some water from the fresh tank to rinse the sewer hose, close the valve and add a gallon of water with some Happy Camper and leave it dwell.

You can also pour water from jugs or use a hose at the dump station to rinse the tanks and sewer hose.

We open and drain the remainder of the fresh tank on the way home.  

At home, we raise the tongue, open the yellow flapper and hot and cold drain valves and drain the Alde and plumbing system.  Close the valves when done.

E. For hot water using the sink faucet, moving the handle out to the side to turn the water on and raise the handle to get hot water.

F.  Other than what I have described above regarding draining your plumbing in between camping, you can just leave your valves in camping mode.  If you haven’t done it already, label your valves and trace your plumbing lines to become more acquainted with their source and function.  When you winterize this fall and when you sanitize in the spring, you will be glad you did!  The manual has good pictures of valves under the area that discusses winterization.  

Best not to run the water pump when on city water.

If you can hook up to city water at home, fill the Alde.  Then turn on the Alde to heat the water.  If you can’t get hot water within an hour, then you need to adjust the mixing valve.  Do this at home before your next camp so you can enjoy your shower!  

ZippyA

@Bayliss- thanks for the thorough explanation.  Have a question about one statement you posted:  "Water pressure from the city water supply fills the water lines (and will also fill your hot water tank as long as your bypass valves are set for camping mode.)"

Where are these bypass valves that I'm supposed to set to camping mode?  I didn't see them listed in the diagram @Michigan_Mike posted.  thx

Sharon_is_SAM

TaB Owner’s Manual.  
https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/ct/2sbjvodnki0o.pdf

Pg. 49

Bayliss

@ZippyA, ditto @Sharon_is_SAM's post above with the photos and link.  Also, heed her advice in "F" in her previous post.  It really helps to label those valves (bypass, drain, pressure relief, etc.) and understand how everything works together.  I went so far as drawing arrows on the water lines so I didn't have to think about the "flow" of things.

ZippyA

Wow thanks @Sharon_is_SAM.  I just found the 2019 T@B manual and downloaded it.
@Bayliss- is it possible to use a sharpie and write directly on them?

pthomas745

Isn't one of the reasons to have some water in the gray/black tanks is to keep from having "swamp gas" coming up from the drains? 

Bayliss

@pthomas745, I'm not sure if this answers your question, and you likely already know this, but just like at home, you would want some water in the sink, shower and bathtub drain p-traps to keep gasses from coming back up the drain pipe.  It acts as a buffer to keep those gasses (from the public sewer) at bay.  Unless you blow out your camper lines, such as when winterizing, there will likely be some water in the p-traps in your camper.  The toilet drain goes straight to the black water holding tank (i.e., no p-trap or curved drain), which is why it is good to keep some water in the toilet bowl, both to help keep the valve seal lubricated and to contain gasses.  However, the best bet is to try to thoroughly clean the black and gray holding tanks so there is little or nothing in there to dry up and generate odors (at least if you won't be using the camper for an extended period.)  As far as the gray tank, its best to try and limit it to holding soapy or other gray water that does not contain much in the way of food particles, etc.  My wife and I wipe all pots, pans and plates off before washing them in the sink, but the reality is that we try to never wash any dishes using the trailer camper.  We spend 95% of our time outside the camper and wash the dishes outside as well (again, wiping everything down first to remove food particles, so our wash and rinse water is mostly just soapy water.)  Dumping the tanks when they are nearly full really helps flush things out, but you still need to add some water or use a tank sprayer (which is what I do) to give the black water tank a good flushing.

Bayliss

@ZippyA, "yes."  That is what I did (see photos below.)

I probably could have done a neater job, but it is hard to maneuver inside that compartment with a black Sharpie.  If you search this forum, another T@B owner made some labels with a label maker, so you could do that as well.  Maybe they will post another pic for you here.  I used a Sharpie to label all the drain valves (hot, cold, Alde) and drew arrows to show the direction of water flow.  For the "bypass" configuration (which you set when you want to bypass the Alde hot water tank during the "winterization" process), I drew a dotted (" - - - - ") line, because that line is only opened up when you bypass the Alde (which also means that you would close off the valves for the lines that would otherwise send water to/from the Alde.  I also marked the flow of water to and from the Alde and the Alde mixing valve.  Once you understand how things work, it sure makes it easier to diagnose and resolve problems when they arise.

Before you mark anything, I recommend that you take some photos of that compartment as it currently appears.  I have photographed just about everything inside and out of my camper.  Those photos come in very useful over time.  After you are done labeling things, take some more photos so you have them for later reference.  Be sure to photograph the wiring compartment and converter and how the fuses/circuit breakers are arranged/labeled.  You will find that comes in handy too.

One more thing, in the event you are not familiar with where the fresh water holding tank drain valve is located, it is under the camper behind and to the left of the door entry steps (if you are looking at the steps.)  Not a super convenient location, but it is what it is.  When you open that drain, if there is much water in the tank, keep to the side of the valve so you don't get sprayed.

Good luck!

ZippyA

@Bayliss- that is impressive.  I know what I will be doing today.  thx all!

ZippyA

omg @Bayliss and @Sharon_is_SAM.  I've just discovered a whole new world.  I did open the wrong compartment to start with - under the seat cushion closest to the shower and was perplexed.  The manual is not clear at all about where these wires and valves are located.  
I just opened the fresh water valve under the T@B and a good amount came out.  I just opened the yellow flapper for a bit and also opened the hot and cold water valves.  I detected a little bit of odor - so i guess that's where the foul smell came from - water trapped in the lines!

Question about testing the shower at home while I'm in the driveway.  If I cannot reach a hose connection, can I just get jugs of water and pour into the other port to fill up and then test it?  I'm on a roll here and want to figure things out before I leave again in 10 days.    thx 

Sharon_is_SAM

Yes, you can add water to your Fresh Water Tank via jugs.  Then you need to turn on your pump and it will run and then stop when it has pressurized.  Then, open your cold and hot taps to fill your Alde tank.  When the sputtering stops, the Alde tank is full.  

But, before you do that, if you had an odor, I would sanitize the plumbing.  Do you need help with that?

ZippyA

Thanks @Sharon_is_SAM.  I guess since there was still an odor I should do something about it.  Wow, have only taken this out 2 times and there's an odor.  And I'm not even using the black tank!

Sharon_is_SAM

Well, it sounds like there was water sitting in the Fresh Water Tank and Alde and that can grow cooties.  At this point, I would sanitize the entire system, which should be done at least annually anyways.  Although we usually discourage members from running any dilute bleach through the Alde, in your case I would.  

ZippyA

Ok I'm looking to the experts @Sharon_is_SAM and @Bayliss again.  Since I found the fresh water drain and drained it and still smelled a foul odor I will sanitize.  Below are the instructions from the manual. I have a bunch of questions (surprise!)

1.  I will be using my white water hose and connecting it to an outside spigot.    Correct?

2.  Elsewhere in the manual where it talks generally about filling the fresh water tank it says:   "Using a 3/8” hose adapter, fill the water tank through the exterior fill spout slowly at a low volume until water overflows out of the vent. Do not force water into spout since air in the tank must be released during filling. Do not put the potable water hose into the mouth of the fill."

I'm off to get a 3/8" hose adapter - but what does it mean "do not put the potable water hose into the mouth of the fill?"

3.  In #3 below, it says:  "With an empty tank and all faucets and drains closed, pump into the tank, via the potable tank fill, either with a manual or electric water pump. Or pour 1/2 cup of bleach (1/4 cup per 15 gallons of capacity) into the hose before connecting it to the water source."

Huh?  I have neither a manual or electric water pump and don't even know what they look like.  The alternative is to "pour 1/2 cup of bleach into the hose before connecting it to the water source."
I'm trying to imagine what this looks like (I know - me looking like Lucy from another episode of I Love Lucy).
So - I get my white water hose.  Hold it while I pour 1/2 c of bleach INTO IT and then connect it to my spigot which is very low to the ground and at a weird angle.   

I'm assuming that I hold the white hose up as I pour the bleach down and shake it so it kind of snakes down BEFORE I attach to the spigot (low to the ground) so that the bleach does NOT run out.  Is that correct?

4.  Nothing in the manual addresses whether I should be fooling with the hot and cold water valves  or the bypass valve (that I just found) and switching them to NON-CAMPING mode.  But I believe I read that in an older post about sanitizing.  (Older posts also questioned using bleach but the manual explicitly instructs for it to be used.  
Do I need to switch any of the cold/hot/bypass valves as I'm doing this?

5.  Once I finish step 9 - I'm done right?  I don't need to refill the fresh water tank because I don't leave for another week or so.  Correct?
THANK YOU ALL!




FROM THE MANUAL:  

Sanitizing Fresh Water System
Sanitize the fresh water system and piping at initial use, at least once a year and whenever the camper sits for a prolonged period. This will help keep the tank and lines fresh and will discourage the growth of bacteria and other organisms that can contaminate the water supply. Rinse the tank with a chlorine/fresh water solution as follow:

1) Drain water system.
2) Prepare a chorine solution using a gallon of

water and 1⁄4 cup of liquid household bleach (5% sodium hypo-chlorinate solution). Use one gallon of solution for each 15 gallons of tank capacity.

3) With an empty tank and all faucets and drains closed, pump into the tank, via the potable tank fill, either with a manual or electric water pump. Or pour 1/2 cup of bleach (1/4 cup per 15 gallons of capacity) into the hose before connecting it to the water source. The water source pressure will push the chlorine and water into the tank, making the correct solution when the fresh water tank is full.

4) Completely fill the tank with fresh water.

5)  Switch on the water pump. Open all faucets one at a time until all air is purged, and the water flows freely.

6)  Again, add fresh water to the tank until the water level reaches the fill spout.

7)  Allow the solution to stand in the tank, undisturbed, for at least three (3) hours.

8)  Drain the system by opening all faucets and the fresh water tank drain valve while flushing the system with fresh water of drinking quality.

9)  Continue flushing the system, allowing the water to flow for several minutes.

Close the tank drain valve and all faucets. Refill the system with water of known drinking quality.

ScottG

Holy smokes! I never realized filling the FW tank was so involved! All I've ever done is run water from my hose into the fill port until it overflows. If I want to sanitize, I throw a little bleach in to the mix.

I personally can't see the need for pumps or pouring the bleach into the hose first. Even if you were not connected to a pressurized water source, gravity will fill the tank and the bleach and water will eventually mix up just fine once the get where they are going. 

ZippyA

@ScottG - what do you mean by "throwing a little bleach into the mix?"  Where are you putting the bleach?

ScottG

@ZippyA, sometimes I've just poured the prescribed amount into the FW tank filler then followed up by filling the tank with water. If it makes you feel better you can mix it first with a gallon of water and then pour that into the tank first.

Note that the amount of bleach for general sanitizing is pretty small--approximately 1/4 cup per tank. The old directions were even less clear and I think the first time I did it I added 1/4 per gallon--which translates into about 3 cups! I can assure you my water system was nicely sterilized but I think I was still smelling chlorine a month later.  :-p

Since your trying to get rid of an odor that may indicate the cooties have taken hold, you may want to use a bit more bleach.

TNOutback

You will need to open the low point valves to drain your water lines.  Open your faucets and the hot/cold low point valves to drain water in them. Simply opening the gray tank valve will not drain your lines.

Sharon_is_SAM

ZippyA said:

Ok I'm looking to the experts @Sharon_is_SAM and @Bayliss again.  Since I found the fresh water drain and drained it and still smelled a foul odor I will sanitize.  Below are the instructions from the manual. I have a bunch of questions (surprise!)

1.  I will be using my white water hose and connecting it to an outside spigot.    Correct?  YES

2.  Elsewhere in the manual where it talks generally about filling the fresh water tank it says:   "Using a 3/8” hose adapter, fill the water tank through the exterior fill spout slowly at a low volume until water overflows out of the vent. Do not force water into spout since air in the tank must be released during filling. Do not put the potable water hose into the mouth of the fill."

I'm off to get a 3/8" hose adapter - but what does it mean "do not put the potable water hose into the mouth of the fill?"  They don't want you to obstruct the air that needs to come out of the tank.  Hence this warning.  The adapters that you can get are a nice way of getting water in the tank without getting your shoes all wet:)

3.  In #3 below, it says:  "With an empty tank and all faucets and drains closed, pump into the tank, via the potable tank fill, either with a manual or electric water pump. Or pour 1/2 cup of bleach (1/4 cup per 15 gallons of capacity) into the hose before connecting it to the water source."

Huh?  I have neither a manual or electric water pump and don't even know what they look like.  The alternative is to "pour 1/2 cup of bleach into the hose before connecting it to the water source."
I'm trying to imagine what this looks like (I know - me looking like Lucy from another episode of I Love Lucy).
So - I get my white water hose.  Hold it while I pour 1/2 c of bleach INTO IT and then connect it to my spigot which is very low to the ground and at a weird angle.   

I'm assuming that I hold the white hose up as I pour the bleach down and shake it so it kind of snakes down BEFORE I attach to the spigot (low to the ground) so that the bleach does NOT run out.  Is that correct?

I will attach some guidelines to this.  First, you need to drain all the water from your system.  Under the bench, open the Alde tank yellow flap and the hot and cold water drains.  Raise the tongue and drain.  Also drain the Fresh water tank at the valve in front of the passenger tire.

In general, I find it easier to mix a 1/4 cup of bleach into an empty jug and pour it into the Fresh Water tank, then fill up the remainder of the tank with the hose.

4.  Nothing in the manual addresses whether I should be fooling with the hot and cold water valves  or the bypass valve (that I just found) and switching them to NON-CAMPING mode.  But I believe I read that in an older post about sanitizing.  (Older posts also questioned using bleach but the manual explicitly instructs for it to be used.  
Do I need to switch any of the cold/hot/bypass valves as I'm doing this?

I think in your case, since you have smelly water, after you drain the plumbing and fresh tank, I would close your valves and leave them in camping mode.  Yes, you will get some dilute bleach in your Alde tank, but I think you need it.

5.  Once I finish step 9 - I'm done right?  I don't need to refill the fresh water tank because I don't leave for another week or so.  Correct?  Once you are satisfied that the bleach is rinsed out, you just empty everything.  I always add some Happy Camper and water to the gray and black tank and also keep some water in the toilet bowl and the P traps to prevent gas from coming up from the tanks.


THANK YOU ALL!




FROM THE MANUAL:  

Sanitizing Fresh Water System
Sanitize the fresh water system and piping at initial use, at least once a year and whenever the camper sits for a prolonged period. This will help keep the tank and lines fresh and will discourage the growth of bacteria and other organisms that can contaminate the water supply. Rinse the tank with a chlorine/fresh water solution as follow:

1) Drain water system.
2) Prepare a chorine solution using a gallon of

water and 1⁄4 cup of liquid household bleach (5% sodium hypo-chlorinate solution). Use one gallon of solution for each 15 gallons of tank capacity.

3) With an empty tank and all faucets and drains closed, pump into the tank, via the potable tank fill, either with a manual or electric water pump. Or pour 1/2 cup of bleach (1/4 cup per 15 gallons of capacity) into the hose before connecting it to the water source. The water source pressure will push the chlorine and water into the tank, making the correct solution when the fresh water tank is full.

4) Completely fill the tank with fresh water.

5)  Switch on the water pump. Open all faucets one at a time until all air is purged, and the water flows freely.

6)  Again, add fresh water to the tank until the water level reaches the fill spout.

7)  Allow the solution to stand in the tank, undisturbed, for at least three (3) hours.

8)  Drain the system by opening all faucets and the fresh water tank drain valve while flushing the system with fresh water of drinking quality.

9)  Continue flushing the system, allowing the water to flow for several minutes.

Close the tank drain valve and all faucets. Refill the system with water of known drinking quality.

In the PDF Dewinterize and Sanitize, follow "C" but do not bypass your Alde, then ignore step 14.  Remember, you will need to empty your gray tank between flushes as it holds less than the 19 gallons and your fresh tank holds up to 11.
De-winterize and Sanitize.pdf

Bayliss

@ZippyA, I agree with @ScottG.  Sanitizing the fresh water tank and water lines is pretty simple.  

Using the link provided by @Sharon_is_SAM, I think the process you want to follow is Section "A," steps 9 through 16, OR "B" steps 6 through 14 skipping step 14 (i.e., filling the fresh water tank and Alde tank) if you won't be camping in the near future.  I believe that is what @Sharon_is_SAM is referring to.  (Sharon, feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.............AND, thank you for putting together those instructions!)

I would say that you DO want to bypass the Alde tank when running bleach through the fresh water tank and water lines.  Although I have not researched it myself, it seems that the consensus on this forum is that you should not allow bleach into the Alde hot water tank (when sanitizing) or anti-freeze (when winterizing, if you winterize using anti-freeze rather than the "blow-out" method), because both may damage the interior of the Alde tank.  Once or twice probably isn't going to be a problem, but repeatedly allowing those chemicals into the Alde tank will likely eventually damage it.

Bleach is a pretty caustic chemical, so that may be why it is suggested to first add it to a gallon of water before pouring that mixture into the fresh water fill port.  However, I have done it both ways (i.e., directly pouring 1/4 cup of bleach down the fill tube, followed by filling the fresh water tank, OR by putting 1/4 cup of bleach in a gallon of water and pouring that through the fresh water fill port followed by adding water with a hose.)  As I stated, since bleach is caustic, I usually add it to a gallon of water first to dilute the mixture.

Fill your fresh water tank with water and when it gets close to full (or full), turn on your pump and open up the hot and cold valves throughout the trailer (sink, showers and toilet) and get the bleach and water to flow through the lines and expel any air.  Once the water is flowing well and you smell the bleach, close the water valves.  You may want to top off your fresh water tank so it is full and the bleach mixture is sanitizing a full tank.  Then, just let everything sit for a few hours or so.  If you want, you could drive your camper around for a short distance to slosh the water around in the fresh water tank, but it isn't necessary.

After the bleach and water mixture sits for a while, you need to flush out the bleach and get rid of the smell.  That is why you have to dump the tank and run fresh water through the lines until the smell is gone.  You may have to do that process a couple times to eliminate the bleach smell.

Personally, I never use the camper water for drinking and cooking, but if you do, many people use a water filter to keep their water free of contaminants.  I just drink bottled water.  I use the camper water for the toilet, shower and washing hands.

ZippyA

Thanks @Bayliss, @ScottG, and @Sharon_is_SAM.  I had to run to Walmart (quite a hike) to get another water hose b/c mine was not long enough.  Aargh.  
@Bayliss- when you say open up the valves - shower, sink, toilet.  I know about the shower and sink.  I've never used the toilet.  Is there a valve for it?  Is it in that compartment behind the toilet.  
If I make it through this, I need to give myself some kind of certificate.

@Bayliss and @Sharon_is_SAM should run a T@B 100 weekend retreat and charge.  I'd pay!  I know there is the annual NuCamp shindig.  Not sure if they go over all of this but there have to be other newbies like me out there who could benefit from a show and tell!  

Bayliss

@ZippyA, the flush valve is a pull-lever located on the left side of the toilet, just below the seat (if you're sitting on it), or to the right if you are looking at the toilet from the area of the wet bath entry door.  Pull it toward the front of the toilet and wah-lah, water will come out and flush away, and simultaneously open the round drain cover located at the inside base of the bowl.  (TIP:  IF you only pull open that valve slightly, or about half way, you can fill the toilet bowl with water without it draining out of the bowl and into the holding tank.  It is always a good idea to have a small amount of clean water in the toilet bowl.)

Speaking of "clean," I use one of these  https://www.amazon.com/PS-Camco-Flexible-Swivel-Stick-Holding/dp/B0754JCX3T/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1TWJBSN1UV05Y&keywords=camco+swivel+stick&qid=1564007785&s=gateway&sprefix=camco+swiv%2Caps%2C190&sr=8-3  to clean out my black water tank.  You just connect it to a hose (NOT your fresh water/drinking water hose), lower it down through the toilet drain into the upper portion of your holding tank and spray away...............BE SURE THE BLACK WATER HOLDING TANK DRAIN VALVE IS OPEN AND DRAINING INTO THE RV DUMP WHENEVER FLUSHING OUT YOUR TANK, regardless of how you go about cleaning it.

Some folks don't like using the "swivel stick," but without a built-in black water tank flush-out system like that installed on the T@B 400 (and many other RVs), I personally find it to be easy to use and very effective.  In reality, it is probably more effective than the built in sprayers.  Always wear gloves when cleaning out your holding tanks or doing anything involving those tanks...........get some good nitrile type disposable gloves for that purpose.

dCliffhanger

Sharon_is_SAM said:

dCliffhanger said:

dCliffhanger said:

jgram2 said:

Thanks for that info...however, I am using a desktop computer with a screen big enough to see...  Maybe, though I use my phone, usually, as phone maybe I can modify my profile through it and it'll pass through to my desktop.

I just tried editing my profile via my Android and I get the same thing. Just my name and email. No other fields or other options to show more.  I can go into View and see my activity.  That's it.





@dCliffhanger, did you follow these phone steps exactly and turn the phone horizontal after selecting “Desktop View”?

I found the answer to editing my profile! Simply open the page to full screen! I typically run multiple windows on my desktop. If the profile page is not at least 2\3 of full screen, the left side which lists the various options, does not show. I discovered this when I opened the page full screen on my laptop, which I don't normally use except when traveling. I now have a signature!

Sharon_is_SAM

Yeah Ron!  Thank you for that!

suram

I too would pay for a clinic on how to use water and heat systems. Hoping to get to the NuCamp gathering next year. Working on setting up my signature now...

LisaTucson

suram said:

I too would pay for a clinic on how to use water and heat systems. Hoping to get to the NuCamp gathering next year. Working on setting up my signature now...

T@B’ers are wonderful people. When I got my T@B last year I asked if there were T@B owners in my city that would be willing to teach me about the Alde system. A wonderful couple that lived in a nearby city came to my rescue. While I can follow a manual I learn much better when hands on. Good idea about clinics.

lkc001

@ZippyA  if you have time, you should do what @LisaTucson did and reach out and see if anyone that has your model Tab lives near you and would come over for a hands-on training session with you.  That might help you a great deal.  Keep reading the posts and learning and all of a sudden, one day it will make sense!