Air8 Performance in T@B 400 & Resolution (Coming Soon!)

Cbusguy

I wouldn't say the air8 is crap......the install is crap

At this point my fear is they will stop using the air8 next year and if I ever have an issue with mine I will be stuck without the ability to replace it

N7SHG_Ham

Easiest way to fix this would be go back to cool cat up front and not worry about hitch weight so much, proven system, no R&D or testing needed and could implement it on next unit on line, 1st few 2020's had the Coolcat up front.

ecstatic

I'm going to be camping in 90 degree weather this weekend and plan to run my Air8 through the paces.  Will report back with times and temperature differentials, etc.

JCALD

We visited with a dealer here in Texas a couple of days ago and he said they have cancelled any further orders of the 400 until NuCamp really solves the air conditioner issues.  He had a customer return his for the factory mods and they set the camper out in the full sun on a hot day and it couldn’t get the interior temp below 88 degrees.  Cancelling orders should get NuCamp’s attention.

TabberJohn

One assumption being made is the Air8 is a private label version of the Truma Saphir Compact (1800 watts = 6142 btu).
If the unit is being manufactured by Truma it must be a special model with different specs.
Take a look at the floor cut-outs for KO (drain), LE (intake), LA (exhaust) from the Compact installation manual --
https://www.truma.com/web/downloadcenter/files/truma-air-condition-saphir-compact-installation-de-en-fr-it-nl-dk-se.pdf
Those locations don't match the Air8 service bulletin or photos posted by T@B owners modifying the vents.
Would love to see an actual install guide with specs from the manufacturer.

Tabaz

Nice find TabberJohn.  Notice the instructions state "If possible, position the device so that the frame of the vehicle is between the air inlet (LE) and the air outlet (LA)."  That really doesn't sound like an iron-clad requirement - more like a suggestion.

TNOutback

I installed this scoop the factory sent me, over the exhaust vent. Pointed it toward the street side. It seemed to evacuate the hot air from underneath the camper well, but alas, made virtually no difference in the ability to cool the camper. Starting with a cool camper, it got up to 81 in the cabin on a partly sunny 86 degree day. 

Awca12a

Photomom said:

We checked out a 400 at the factory last week and really liked it. We could both stretch out on the bed without the mods I’ve had to do to my T@B. My tall husband could stand up in most of the trailer and fit into the bathroom. I would have plenty of room to prepare meals and he could stand up to wash the dishes. When the Air8 issue is resolved we will probably buy one, but it’s a nonstarter as things stand now. 

While I promised myself to keep my posts short and infrequent, sometimes a systemic issue pops up that I can't help my self commenting on.

These units rarely come on the market used but when they do, perhaps you should consider picking-up a 2019 or earlier 400 with the CoolCat.   You will save some money on the purchase and get a unit that has the AC capability you are looking for.   The downside is the heavy tongue weight and for the people (like me) who purchased one expecting factory specs but got one much much heavier, it was a problem for a while but now the market knows what the TV requirements are for those units, you can get a great trailer for less than buying a new one.  On the other hand, if you are like many owners who primarily boon-dock and don't use the AC except for the rare hookup days, then the 2020 gives you the lighter tongue weight and you know what you are getting.  Besides, a workaround for the AC will get figured out (probably on this forum) down the line likely with a way to re-pipe and re-sensor the units.

Hopefully, the factory is listening and will evaluate their design/testing team strengths and weaknesses and balance that with the value that a group of beta testers brings to the table.  Youtubers are great, I have even watched a few especially when trying to figure out some rather obscure problem.  They fill a niche that has bailed out many DIY'r and enabled people to tackle problems they wouldn't have dreamed of.  But ... the majority of the experience is out there in the hands of ordinary people many of whom would have no idea how to post a Youtube but with decades of "dirty hands" behind them.  These people can both intuit what will likely happen with a given design and/or know what to look for when putting equipment through its paces.   There are so many retired or semi-retired engineers, mechanics, users out there putting these trailers through their paces; many of whom have engineered solutions to their RV's shortcomings and kept right on travelling.    The ability of nuCAMP to find these people, get beta units into their hands and have them talk as a group while keeping egos in check can make the difference between nuCAMP being a bunch of fine woodworkers building RV's and earning the reputation of the RV version of 1950's Chris-Craft.  

In the meantime, you have this forum which has stepped-up as needed to solve a wide variety of unforeseeable application hiccups on the various units.  From professional experience, I can see that RV's have lot in common with software programs in that users tend to do things with them that the software designers never imagined.  Both are constrained in their solutions by the architecture chosen to build the RV or software platform which is probably why software engineers have taken the beta user approach.  Then again, RV's are much more expensive than free software but the concept holds regardless.

JCALD

TNOutback said:

I installed this scoop the factory sent me, over the exhaust vent. Pointed it toward the street side. It seemed to evacuate the hot air from underneath the camper well, but alas, made virtually no difference in the ability to cool the camper. Starting with a cool camper, it got up to 81 in the cabin on a partly sunny 86 degree day. 

Pretty sad when the Air8 will only cool to 81 with a sunny 86 degree day.  Just think what it would be like on a sunny 106 degree day.  It is clear the the unit is way undersized for the 400 and all the air diverters and Lowe’s hardware cloth you can throw at it won’t fix the problem.  Time for NuCamp to punt the Air8.

rbtx

Has there been any update from NuCamp on this?  Are they just staying silent or working on a redesign?  

TNOutback

I’ve heard nothing.  Conducting another test of the system this morning, and the results so far are similarly disappointing - and unacceptable.  Started the day at 7:30AM with an outside temperature of 56, a cabin temperature of 59, with the Elwell showing 65.3 degrees.  I set the Elwell thermostat to 74 degrees: a reasonable, comfortable temperature. At 10:00AM, the cabin temperature is 75 degrees, the Elwell showing 66.2, and has still not come on.  At 10:40AM, the outside temperature is 78 degrees, the cabin temperature has reached 81 degrees, and the Elwell shows 67.1 degrees. The a/c has still not come on for the first time.

ecstatic

@TNOutback, can you post a picture of your control panel when it is on?

rh5555

Have you tried opening the hatch over the Elwell unit so that it pulls air from higher in the trailer?  The air at floor level (where the sensor is) might still be pretty cold.

TNOutback

At noon, it’s 82 degrees outside, the cabin air temperature has hit 90, and the Elwell reads 69.8 degrees.  The a/c STILL has not turned itself on with a thermostat setting of 74 degrees.  That would seem to support the notion that the thermostat is actually inside the a/c unit, which is down at floor level, inside a compartment underneath 4 inches of bedding, and inside a styrofoam encasement.

Contrast that to the Alde when I’m in heating mode:  the Alde temperature perfectly matches an independent cabin temperature reading, and maintains the thermostat setting.  I would expect the air conditioner to operate similarly.  We should not have to open the a/c compartment to get it to warm up to make it come on.  We should not have to “trick” the system to turn itself on.  By doing so the a/c unit will run until it reaches 61 degrees, not the 74 degrees I want in the cabin.

The silence from NuCamp is deafening.  As every day passes without any feedback or a solution, we are feeling more like victims than customers.  The a/c unit cannot maintain a cabin temperature from a cool start, nor cool down a hot camper after traveling to a camping destination. It won’t even turn itself on without “tricking” it into coming on.

It’s a beautiful 82 degree day and I should be prepping for our next trip in a nice, comfortably cool camper, but it’s anything but that.

Here is the Elwell control panel at noon:



Here is the actual cabin temperature, 90 degrees:

Cbusguy

turn on the fan to circulate the air.  and that should correct the issue.

TNOutback

Cbusguy said:

turn on the fan to circulate the air.  and that should correct the issue.

Having to run the fan to resolve the shortcomings of a poor design is not a solution. 

TNOutback

ecstatic said:

I'm going to be camping in 90 degree weather this weekend and plan to run my Air8 through the paces.  Will report back with times and temperature differentials, etc.

What was your experience?

ecstatic

TNOutback said:

ecstatic said:

I'm going to be camping in 90 degree weather this weekend and plan to run my Air8 through the paces.  Will report back with times and temperature differentials, etc.

What was your experience?

Unfortunately it only hit 80 outside when I went, but the air inside cooled down to 73 within an hour from about 82 before I turned it on.  It was plenty for the weather that day but I was never able to test it in 90 degree conditions.  I did make sure to spin all of my AC vents so they were blowing air upwards instead of down as they were installed.

rh5555

Just in case anyone is still in doubt, I took the front air filter off the Elwell and this is what's behind:

Enlarging that little doohickey on the right of the radiator:

And yes, it's a thermistor.  This is where your temperature sensing is.  So if you don't run the Elwell fan continuously, it won't sense a valid temperature, and maybe never come on!

TNOutback

rh5555 said:

And yes, it's a thermistor.  This is where your temperature sensing is.  So if you don't run the Elwell fan continuously, it won't sense a valid temperature, and maybe never come on!

Unless I’ve missed something, there is no way to run the fan continuously and have the a/c come on at a preset temperature; it’s either fan or cooling, but not both. 

rh5555

TNOutback said:

rh5555 said:

And yes, it's a thermistor.  This is where your temperature sensing is.  So if you don't run the Elwell fan continuously, it won't sense a valid temperature, and maybe never come on!

Unless I’ve missed something, there is no way to run the fan continuously and have the a/c come on at a preset temperature; it’s either fan or cooling, but not both. 

I just hooked up my A/C and can confirm this.  Given the location of the temperature sensor, this is completely ridiculous.  The Elwell has to be able to run the fan in A/C mode, even when no cooling is called for.  Otherwise, how can it ever sense the cabin temperature?  Fortunately, this should just be a programming change and hopefully Nucamp will step up and get Elwell to fix this.

grsiepka

Agree about the ridiculous part.. but having to run the fan is silly in my opinion... and a programming change would just reinforce the silliness. Wouldn't a better option be to put that temp sensor somewhere else? 

TNOutback

UPDATE: I just got a call from a representative at Elwell. A very promising exchange and constructive call. We talked about fan/cooling mode programming, location of temp probe, etc.  They acknowledge they have design issues to resolve and are working on them with Nucamp.  He even said they have a new prototype coming in that is more powerful that has the same footprint as the current unit. Now that we are heading into Fall, I’m feeling more optimistic they’ll figure this out. 

rbtx

That’s great news!  Definitely keep the TAB world up to date here as you have been.  You have really helped the community a ton with this topic.  It’s a shame you had to go through all of this when you obviously like so many other aspects of the 400.  I sure hope they fix you up with a great working AC system!

Cbusguy

@TNOutback The fan only on mode or button is the triangle on the bottom of the touch screen.   Just keep pressing it unit the fan shows in motion.

Sorry for the delay.   Wanted to look at my panel before I posted

TNOutback

Cbusguy said:

@TNOutback The fan only on mode or button is the triangle on the bottom of the touch screen.   Just keep pressing it unit the fan shows in motion.

Sorry for the delay.   Wanted to look at my panel before I posted

Yeah, I understand that. What is missing is the fan and the cooling mode are completely separate. You can’t run in fan mode and call the compressor at the thermostat preset.  Moving the temperature probe to the cabin and/or reprogramming the unit to allow fan operation in cooling mode would help resolve some of the issues. 

[Deleted User]

Just this spring upgraded from the 320 to the 2020 400.  I also share the same concerns with a/c.  Questionable performance & thermo not indicating correct temp. Please keep posting what your are learning going forward.  My warranty runs out next summer.  

TNOutback

I’ve had enough exchanges now with Elwell and Nucamp both to know they are working on the issues and I feel confident they are going to remedy this. They are looking at where to relocate the temperature sensor in the cabin, and Elwell is working on a more powerful version that keeps the same footprint of the existing unit so they can be easily swapped out by a dealer

ecstatic

TNOutback said:

I’ve had enough exchanges now with Elwell and Nucamp both to know they are working on the issues and I feel confident they are going to remedy this. They are looking at where to relocate the temperature sensor in the cabin, and Elwell is working on a more powerful version that keeps the same footprint of the existing unit so they can be easily swapped out by a dealer

Do you happen to know if existing units will be considered "defective" and replaced under warranty assuming a new version comes out?  Or would the fix just be relocating the sensor and the new unit be considered an upgrade?

tabiphile

TNOutback said:

I’ve had enough exchanges now with Elwell and Nucamp both to know they are working on the issues and I feel confident they are going to remedy this. They are looking at where to relocate the temperature sensor in the cabin, and Elwell is working on a more powerful version that keeps the same footprint of the existing unit so they can be easily swapped out by a dealer

Undoubtedly they are...but to shape perspective of a design ramp to production process, lets just say that in a typical operation you should expect a couple months of project scoping, specification development and resource assignment. Then a few weeks to months of design/packaging, a few more weeks/months to prototype and test followed by design completion and production release. That will be followed by a sourcing initiative and ramp to production phase. The fact that this is increased performance in a defined package makes it a bit of a challenge. Somewhere in that cycle Nucamp will receive eval units that they will need to verify for fit and performance. Assuming that goes perfectly let's say that is another month. Running a new design through could take a minimum of 6 months but more likely a year. These things do not happen overnight. Assuming that they have been at this for a while already and that everything goes well, maybe units will start becoming available in Q2 next year. It will interesting to see how hard they push to make units available.