Help! New Boondock owner with depleted battery, etc.

System
System Administrator Posts: 188
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
This discussion was created from comments split from: Hot water via Alde.
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  • Jkut
    Jkut Member Posts: 5
    All, please help!  I’m a new Boondock 320  owner.  Tried to Boondock.  Set temp to 70 on propane and battery was exhausted around midnight. I did try to heat the water up with electric and gas prior to going to bed to take a quick shower.  The water never even got warm. Wanted to conserve battery so cut it off after 15 minutes of trying to obtain hot water.  Do you need some battery power for the gas heat?  Why did electric go out so fast? Could I have heated the water for shower with just propane? If yes, how long  does it normall take to get hot water? Will gas heat stay on without electric? Does glycol circulate through pipes/radiators without electric? Thanks in advance for any guidance/help!
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited October 2018
    I'm guessing your battery was not eaten up by turning on both electric and propane on the panel, since the Alde has two maximum 950W heating elements.  Panel should just ignore your electric request when only on battery / propane.  No way 1900W could be supported with just 12V power.  120V connection is required for electric Alde heat.  Alde manual says max 12V consumption is only 1.9A.  It can take 30 minutes to both warm the camper and get warm water on propane, but that should not kill your battery alone.  And you're correct, 12V is used for the glycol recirculation pump, so with no battery at all, it should shut itself off.

    What was your battery level at the start of the experience? 
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Jkut
    Jkut Member Posts: 5
    Thanks Doug.  It stated 12.3 when I hit the battery button when I arrived at the campground.  I Have a FJ Crusier and traveled about 4 hours prior to arriving at the campground.  I have a seven pin connection so I assume it’s charging while I drive.  I bought the T@B brand new so I also assume it’s the factory battery.  I appreciate your help and insight!  
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,530
    12.3 is a battery at 70% of capacity, and should be plenty to run your Alde.  So, what was it when you saw it as "Exhausted?"  A battery readout of a battery that is in use (like a light, the fan, etc) is not reliable, and will always show you a much lower value. 

    As Doug pointed out, it might take a bit longer than 15 minutes to warm up.  And, your mixing valve may need to be adjusted.  And, there is a setting to "boost" the heating of water.

    Some cars do not charge the battery very well, if at all.  The only way to find out if your seven pin is charging is to test it.

    Here is an Alde FAQ page that answers some questions.  There are also plenty of blogs we can point to that will explain battery management.



    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • rajamar
    rajamar Member Posts: 112
    Jkut said:
    Thanks Doug.  It stated 12.3 when I hit the battery button when I arrived at the campground.  I Have a FJ Crusier and traveled about 4 hours prior to arriving at the campground.  I have a seven pin connection so I assume it’s charging while I drive.  I bought the T@B brand new so I also assume it’s the factory battery.  I appreciate your help and insight!  
    Are you sure there's a wire (preferably 10AWG) running from your battery to the 7 pin socket? Our experience is that 4 hours of driving should bring a normal, healthy battery well above 12.3 volts. To check:
    1) turn ignition switch in T/V to on (sometimes wire from battery to 7 pin socket goes through ignition.)
    2) use multimeter to check that 12V is on the black socket pin (1 o'clock position).


    2016 T@B S - TV 2004 Toyota Sienna
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  • jkjenn
    jkjenn Member Posts: 6,417
    Were you running your fridge on battery while you drove?

    2021 T@b 320 Boondock "Mattie Ross" | 2021 T@b Nights: 239 | Total nights in a T@b 455 | 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Overland | T@b owner since 2014

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  • Estancio
    Estancio Member Posts: 243
    As noted previously, be sure that your 7-pin connector is putting out charging voltage. I also tow with an FJ and had to make my own wiring harness adaptor to power the camper while driving. I ran an 8g wire from the engine bay to the 7-pin.
    Stancil Campbell
    2011 T@B
    Rockingham, NC

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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    pthomas745 said:
    12.3 is a battery at 70% of capacity, and should be plenty to run your Alde.  So, what was it when you saw it as "Exhausted?"  A battery readout of a battery that is in use (like a light, the fan, etc) is not reliable, and will always show you a much lower value. 

    As Doug pointed out, it might take a bit longer than 15 minutes to warm up.  And, your mixing valve may need to be adjusted.  And, there is a setting to "boost" the heating of water.

    Some cars do not charge the battery very well, if at all.  The only way to find out if your seven pin is charging is to test it.

    Here is an Alde FAQ page that answers some questions.  There are also plenty of blogs we can point to that will explain battery management.



    Saying 12.3V is 70% capacity is misleading. A battery at 11.5v is dead. A fully charged battery is 12.8V. One doesn't want to go down below 12.1-12.2 (50%) to extend battery life. Your SeeLevel may be set to work within those parameters? 
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,530
    @Ratkity I understand what you are saying.  I was just going with the State of Charge chart I use.  My point is there should have been plenty of power to run the Alde. 





    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Jkut
    Jkut Member Posts: 5
    All, thanks for the advice and suggestions.  
    When power went out nothing worked.  Even that annoying blue LED light on the TV went out.  I didn’t get a readout from the gauge. 

    Checked the power this morning and it is now at 11.7.   The refrigerator was off. 

    Will charge the battery completely. Will also check gauge of wire going to 7 pin receptor.  

    Thanks again to all!
    James

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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    @pthomas745 I love that chart. I learned about all of this battery-camping stuff here. How I managed to use a popup as long as I did without toasting multiple batteries is unknown. There must be a popup-angel or three out there! :)
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,530
    I had played around with a solar panel and small batteries for several years, trashing several batteries in my blissful ignorance.  I learned so much from these forums, too.
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    The most recent "Less Junk, More Journey" video has a segment where he's powering their whole Airstream as well as another travel trailer couple they're convoying (in Alaska) with off of his new Lithium battery bank.  Sure would be sweet to have that many amp hours to spare!
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Ratkity
    Ratkity Member Posts: 3,770
    DougH said:
    The most recent "Less Junk, More Journey" video has a segment where he's powering their whole Airstream as well as another travel trailer couple they're convoying (in Alaska) with off of his new Lithium battery bank.  Sure would be sweet to have that many amp hours to spare!
    Sure would be sweeter to have the money to have a huge lithium battery bank!! :money:
    2017 820R Retro Toy Hauler from 2015 Tabitha T@B from 2009 Reverse LG Teardrop (but a T@Bluver at heart)
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  • mreric
    mreric Member Posts: 154
    most 7 pin from the factory do not have the charge line connected.    usually they must be activated by a fuse.  or a new line connected to it
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  • falcon1970
    falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    @mreric "most 7 pin from the factory do not have the charge line connected."
    Do you mean the 7-pin connection at the trailer or at the TV?
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  • mreric
    mreric Member Posts: 154
    falcon1970 said:
    @mreric "most 7 pin from the factory do not have the charge line connected."
    Do you mean the 7-pin connection at the trailer or at the TV?
    on your tow vehicle
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    I don't know about "most" but my T/V (2015 Nissan Frontier with OEM tow package) definitely had the 12V connected and activated.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • falcon1970
    falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    I wouldn't think a manufacturer would install a tow package on a vehicle and then not connect all of the functionality.  As soon as the rain stops around here (which is an heretical things to ask in West Texas) I will check my 2011 Ford Super Duty pickup.
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    edited October 2018
    Here's an interesting description of the problem of depending on your TV alternator to keep your Tab's battery properly charged: 
    (Comes from (credit to) handyBobsolar blog)
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • falcon1970
    falcon1970 Member Posts: 758
    @ChanW
    OK, so this implies that the TV alternator powers the trailer battery directly through the wiring harness and the trailer umbilical rather than the TV battery supplying the power to the trailer battery?  Makes sense because if the TV battery were connected to the trailer battery it would keep providing power even when the TV engine is stopped--thus potentially depleting the TV battery during a roadside stop of any length of time.  It also suggests that the TV voltage regulator is not in the loop from TV alternator to the trailer battery.
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    edited October 2018
    The TV alternator is connected pretty directly to the TV battery. So, in effect, yes the TV battery and alternator are powering the Tab battery together. 

    The actual charge voltage level at the TV's battery will be much higher that the charge voltage level at the Tab's battery, due to the voltage drop in the long & relatively small gauge wire running from the alternator all the way back to the trailer. The alternator adjusts it's output according to the charge on the TV's battery, while the Tab battery state-of-charge is still relatively low.

    It's a good idea to have a 'battery isolator' installed in the TV, which will disconnect the vehicle's battery from the trailer when the engine's not running. This will prevent the Tab electrical system from discharging the TV's battery while you eat lunch! (The alternative is to be sure everything in the Tab is turned off when you turn off your vehicle - like the 3-way fridge - sometimes you forget!)

    Some vehicles have this isolator installed from the factory (maybe with the factory tow package?), but I had to install one in our Tacoma (too many 'lessons'!)
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • dragonsdofly
    dragonsdofly Member Posts: 1,927
    Back to the vehicle 7 pin hook-up. We have a 2005 gmc envoy, identical to the Chevy trailblazer. Every trailblazer and envoy ever built were equipped from the factory with 7 pin hook-up and 2" receiver, but the charging line is NOT activated. It was built in place but never connected. 1 less item to fail if never used or engaged. Connection required attaching the in-place charging line to a stud on the exterior of the fuse box and placing a 30 amp fuse into the slot provided in said fuse box. I've owned more than one of these vehicles and the procedure is the same, so do check your OEM hook-up to be certain.
    2017 t@b sofitel(Dr@gonsFly)TV 2015 Silverado 2500hd(Behemoth). Wyandotte, Michigan.
    Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
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  • jgram2
    jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    @Jkut Has your battery taken and maintained a full charge? Did you find out if your FJ Cruiser’s charge wire is connected to the TV’s battery so that it actually charges the T@B battery while towing?
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • Jkut
    Jkut Member Posts: 5
    JGram2, good questions.  It’s been a busy week.  Will check gauge of wire this weekend and address heating concerns as well. Then, will give an update.  I know it charged as gauge read 11.5 the next morning.  Appreciate everyone’s help! 
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  • Jkut
    Jkut Member Posts: 5
    All, thanks again for your help.  I may need a new battery.  Will charge it and see how it goes next time we Boondock. 

    Multimeter did read 12 and change at 1 o’clock.  Black wire was used at that position. 

    This last summer I must have had natural hot water as valve was almost completely off.  

    Working perfectly now on shore power.   Fingers crossed battery will completely charge. 

    Thanks again for alll of the great reference material and problem solving advice!


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  • jgram2
    jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    @Jkut  - It might be easier to confirm your battery is able to hold its charge before you boondock. Disconnect from shore power, wait for 2-4 hours and use a simple voltmeter like this mentioned by @Michigan_Mike. These links are also helpful. Good luck!
      
    Michigan_Mike      Posts: 2,282Administrator

    I use a 12 volt LED volt meter like the one shown below to monitor my voltage readings and it has been sufficient for my needs.  Don't let the readings get down too low (10.5 volts is bottoming out) and I believe that 11.5 volts is the time to shut things down and think about re-charging the battery.  That would have me on edge anyway and if I hit 11.5 volts with my deep cycle battery I will be sweating bullets if you will.....  Look at the links below and they discuss maximum discharge rates for batteries and how best to maintain a battery as there is a process called battery sulfation that occurs when the lead battery plates are deprived of a charge.   
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • Marceline
    Marceline Member Posts: 1,747
    This is another cheap alternative for monitoring the battery. It sends data to an app on your cell phone. It has the advantage of also pushing notifications at pre-determined battery levels.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071JR1JPM/
    San Francisco Bay Area
    2013 CS-S us@gi
    2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
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