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T@B 400 Tank Heaters
Awca12a
Member Posts: 286
Working off of a post from user @skwhee I followed their lead and after opening everything up, I was hoping for some forum input on what I'm seeing. The design called for two ThermaHeat RV Valve Pipe & Elbow Pads which are 13" x 3" on each of the 29-gal fresh tank and the 17-gal grey tanks. Looking at the tanks with the coroplast belly pan down, the fresh tank is 52" L x 24" W x 5.5" deep while the Ameri-Kart grey tank is 54" L x 14" w x 6-1/2" deep. That made me think the grey tank needed all 4 of the pads given it's length and the inability to install insulation below as it rests on the belly pan.
Each pad gives out 7.5watts so 30-watts total isn't a bad trade-off for each tank to be kept above freezing. Problem is that these elbow pad units don't have thermo-regulators like the larger pads designed as tank heaters. Those pads put out 60-watts over an 18 x 12" surface. So the question I'm hoping some users here can chime-in on is what would be the result if the 4 non-thermoregulated pads were left on, perhaps even by accident during warmer months, or otherwise turned on during colder months and left un-monitored. Is it worth it to put on the larger pads with the thermoregulation or are the smaller ones putting out too little heat, even if left on indefinitely, to be a concern.
My thinking is that the grey could be a problem if the material inside was heated above 67 and created gasses that had to go somewhere.
Similarly, how hot could fresh water get before it became a bacteria issue?
I'm using SJOOW 14-4 so there will be a switch for the valves, grey and fresh to operate independently of each other. Easy enough to wire this way plus it gives another switched leg down below should some other mod ever come-up.
For the engineers out there of whom I am not.
Would you just use the non-thermoregulated pads to get 30-watt draw or change the design now that I've installed it and accept the 60-watt draw but gain thermoregulation?
Thank You in advance.
Each pad gives out 7.5watts so 30-watts total isn't a bad trade-off for each tank to be kept above freezing. Problem is that these elbow pad units don't have thermo-regulators like the larger pads designed as tank heaters. Those pads put out 60-watts over an 18 x 12" surface. So the question I'm hoping some users here can chime-in on is what would be the result if the 4 non-thermoregulated pads were left on, perhaps even by accident during warmer months, or otherwise turned on during colder months and left un-monitored. Is it worth it to put on the larger pads with the thermoregulation or are the smaller ones putting out too little heat, even if left on indefinitely, to be a concern.
My thinking is that the grey could be a problem if the material inside was heated above 67 and created gasses that had to go somewhere.
Similarly, how hot could fresh water get before it became a bacteria issue?
I'm using SJOOW 14-4 so there will be a switch for the valves, grey and fresh to operate independently of each other. Easy enough to wire this way plus it gives another switched leg down below should some other mod ever come-up.
For the engineers out there of whom I am not.
Would you just use the non-thermoregulated pads to get 30-watt draw or change the design now that I've installed it and accept the 60-watt draw but gain thermoregulation?
Thank You in advance.
F150 Pulling 2019 T@B400 BDL
Comments
I had considered the tank heating pads for our 400 but decided against it as we've camped in the mountains without any issues and in below freezing temperatures. I have had the hose freeze up and learned a few years back that you are better off filling the water tank up when temperatures are below freezing as water does hold heat for an extended period of time. If temperatures don't plummet dramatically for let's say an extended period of time 8-10 hours and things get above freezing the following day you should be fine.
But I find the pads interesting and they should be beneficial nonetheless. Maybe you might consider a toggle style switch with a light built in to remind you that the pads are energized. And unless you had a minimal amount of water in the tanks it would seem a stretch that there would be a heating or gas buildup issue. That would be a good question for the manufacturer of the heat pad.
Good stuff, thanks for sharing your project!
A couple of things.
I wouldnt think that even 60 watts spread over such a large area of 216 square inches would create any problems. The black water tanks vent to the wnvironment so that's not an issue. More potential for problems would be heating/cooling the plastic causing it to get britte over time. I Doubt that could be an issue if there is any liquid in the tanks at all.
For warm weather shutoff, a simple 110V line voltage thermostat could be wired to the units. That would turn them off at a preset temp. The thermostats are not voltage sensitive and would work fine at 12 or 110V. They simply switch a circuit off based upon mechanical temperature settings. Not hard to do. You could surface mount one anywhere, even in a cupboard or cubby. Just set it to the lowest setting (around 50 degrees) and if the temp drops below that it would close the switch.
WilliamA
2017 T@G XL
Can generally be found around west-central Wisconsin.
2019 T@b 400 Boondock Lite
2018 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi
Central Alabama
I closed off the inspection holes in the frame.
I installed an auxiliary fresh water tank in the closet, using the tank used in some of the T@G campers. (drain the main and use the auxiliary during freezing weather)
I installed an Ultraheat pad on the grey tank and two elbow heaters outside near the gate valves. Unfortunately the style gate valves used on my 400 will not accept a gate valve heater so I compromised and mounted a gate valve heater on a strip of aluminum under the valves. The strip on aluminum does not do much good.
I wrapped the outside elbows and gate valves with the reflectix bubble wrap.
I installed a short 110 volt heat strip on the drain line for the fresh tank to be use when overnights gets below freezing and daytimes above freezing so I will be able to drain the tank if weather changes. (when I am still using the main tank)
I tried to add bubble wrap insulation around the underbelly but it was too bulky so I have not insulated underneath.
I added the ultra heat switch/control set in the port side compartment
On Monday we were in Northern AL and drove the 520 miles home on that day. On Sunday night, I turned on the gray tank heater but forgot to turn on the elbow heaters before I went to bed. Temperature at bedtime was 28 and calm I wanted to empty the tanks the next morning but the gate valves were stuck. The temperature was 23 at that time. Water at the campsite was also frozen so we headed North with gray heat and elbow heaters on I was worried about the TV electrical load but it turned out not to be a problem. The temperature was 10 at 5pm when we got home. Gate valves were still frozen so I waited it out until today with the temperatures in the 40's and was able to empty both tanks with no damage.
The interesting thing for me is the heat generated from the gray pad. Not moving the underbelly temperature is 7-9 degrees warmer than the outside temperature and moving 3-4 degrees warmer. (also installed a remote thermometer in the underbelly)
The question for me is, would the elbow heaters have kept the gate valves operational if I had them on all night while we were in AL?
Wayne
Wiring will be a 4-switch connector purchased from Amazon allowing dump switches to be active independently of Grey and Fresh.
@Hvtymwiltravel, what did you use for remote temperature reporting? Nothing I've found so far seems simple and reliable enough to get buttoned-up and forgotten in the belly.
2019 T@b 400 Boondock Lite
2018 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi
Central Alabama
That said, just found I can use 1” ISO inside a 1” aluminum C channeling and get an R6.5 before the Cloroplast and reflective bubble insulation is factored in.
2019 T@b 400 Boondock Lite
2018 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi
Central Alabama
2019 T@b 400 Boondock Lite
2018 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi
Central Alabama
Minor mods and reposted below