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Wood interior finish chipping

bobby_h
bobby_h Member Posts: 4
edited September 2020 in Trailer & Towing
Has anyone ever run into this problem?  The section of wood has hard raised bumps similar to what you’d see when sap rises to the surface on pine.  My first thought was some kind of mildew/mold.  Used a cleaner on it and the finish just started chipping off leaving those darker patches.  It’s like the grain veneer is peeling right off.
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Comments

  • VictoriaP
    VictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    That type of raised resin-y bumpy stuff has been seen before on the floor and was a sign of water damage.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited September 2020
    Sadly looks that way to me too.  On the 2017s and later, the only wood in the T@Bs besides cabinets, cabinet framing, and underside of shower is the luan ceiling that runs all the way from the floor at the front to the back, including part of the rear wall inner face below the bed...  right?

    While rare, haven't there been occasional seam leaks at the top... not with the cosmetic ABS colored accent trim pieces, but where the walls and roof are joined?  And also more common leaks from taillight assembly that can also soak the luan in the back?  I think I've read repair is primarily caulking the area where the water is getting in.  Seems like a strange and isolated place for excessive condensation to have been the issue.

    If under warranty, NüCamp may replace the ceiling for you.  If not newish, it would be tempting to take off the trim and try to find and caulk the leaking area. Not sure how well you can treat and refinish the already damaged area.  Cutting out and replacing with a strip of fresh luan, then matching the varnish / clear coat might work out okay.  Or lots of stickers from places you've been after treating the wood with one of those long lasting moldicides?
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • VictoriaP
    VictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    DougH said:
    On the 2017s and later, the only wood in the T@Bs besides cabinets, cabinet framing, and underside of shower is the luan ceiling that runs all the way from the floor at the front to the back, including part of the rear below the bed...  right?
    As far as I’m aware, yes, all wood on the 2017 and later is interior only. 

    @bobby_h What part of the trailer are we looking at here? 
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    edited September 2020
    That is a 2015 TaB Max S and it looks like the ceiling near the dome light?.  The “wood grain” is a paper veneer that covers 1/8 inch luan.  Would excess condensation inside do that?  
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • VictoriaP
    VictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    That is a 2015 TaB Max S and it looks like the rear ceiling above the cabinets.  The “wood grain” is a paper veneer that covers 1/8 inch luan.  Would excess condensation inside do that?  
    I bet it would. 

    My other thought was if it was an Outback/Boondock, could be water intrusion from the rear cargo rack. But that wasn’t a feature on the 2015, was it? Possible water intrusion from where the roof meets the sidewall? But I’d expect water there to travel down the inside wall rather than across the ceiling. 

    I think condensation is the most likely. It looks a lot like it’s following the line of one of the roof beams.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Is it limited to only one side or does it stretch across to the other side?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • jgram2
    jgram2 Member Posts: 1,522
    Yes, the 2015 Outback/Boondock came with the Yakima rack.
    John, Judi, Guinness & OD in PDX
    T@Bit@t 2015 S Max Outback, ‘18 V6 4Runner 


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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    jgram2 said:
    Yes, the 2015 Outback/Boondock came with the Yakima rack.
    So a previous owner didn't Dicor regularly?
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    His thumbnail picture does not show a Yakima rack.  @bobby_h - please tell us where this is located.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    ... and if you have a GoFundMe for the repair we can donate to... once you get the estimate.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited October 2020
    You can check the plywood by pressing a small blunt screw driver into the damaged dark spot area and see if it pushes in easily.  I’d it does, the plywood is damaged and should be replaced, at least in the damaged area, with a new piece of ply.

    Damage looks like it is from a leak, than it does from condensation.  The void between the wood interior and the aluminum outside skin is filled with foam, so unlikely condensation would form above the interior plywood ceiling.

    Fiberglass boats left in the water in climates with warm humid days and cool nights or cold water, cooling the bare hull will sweat on the inside with condensation.  I redid a boat with this issue, and the solution was to epoxy closed cell installation foam to the inside of the hull from the deck to the bilge.  The foam created a thermal layer preventing the condensation from occurring.  The inside surface of the foam was covered with marine grade door skin type birch plywood, that had the laminates with grain going the same direction, so you could easily bend in into a curve to follow the hull shape.  This worked very well, and fixed the issue.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited October 2020
    Our roofs do have Aluminum ribs going across from side to side every 10", and those 1" areas don't get the benefit of block foam. Not that I disagree about it being a leak, but only the OP will be able to eventually tell us for sure.  Just that those strips of relatively uninsulated rooftop will be more likely to have condensation risk if the roof vent wasn't left cracked during some colder camping trips.
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Verna
    Verna Member Posts: 6,876
    Bobby_h hasn’t been here since yesterday. 
    Verna, Columbus, IN
    2021 T@B 320S  Boondock “The T@B”
    Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    Verna said:
    Bobby_h hasn’t been here since yesterday. 
    Don't tell us that... only a hundred more comments and we'll have the camper sorted.   =)
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Before the aluminum rigs will create condensation, they need to be exposed to warm most air then cool off below the dew point.  As GUI,t the aluminum rib had foam between them, roof on top and the plywood below.  Heat and cold will transfer quicker where the ribs are, so the ply will be cooler or warmer at the ribs, but that is about it, as ply will not get enough thermal transfer to cause condensation.  Wood just does not sweat like metal or fiberglass does.  
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • VictoriaP
    VictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Denny16 said:
    Before the aluminum rigs will create condensation, they need to be exposed to warm most air then cool off below the dew point.  As GUI,t the aluminum rib had foam between them, roof on top and the plywood below.  Heat and cold will transfer quicker where the ribs are, so the ply will be cooler or warmer at the ribs, but that is about it, as ply will not get enough thermal transfer to cause condensation.  Wood just does not sweat like metal or fiberglass does.  
    Cheers
    Unfortunately, it’s been seen in the past that condensation will literally stripe the ceiling where the beams are. There are pics of it around here somewhere.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Interesting and very unusual. Thanks.  Must be some air gaps up there then.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited October 2020
    Was a discussion here a while back about on any cool morning you can run a hot shower for a while and use the ceiling stripes of moisture to find the beams. Others have commented they actually get dripping from the ceiling at those beam points.  I remember a couple years ago when trying to cool the thing in the summer the beams stood out in stark relief on a thermal camera.  So at the beam point from outside in it may just be clear coat, sheet of aluminum, glue, aluminum fantastic conduction beam, glue, azdel sheet, glue, luan, glue, coated paper?  Or something like that. Compared to everywhere else where there's at least an inch of foam block.

    How would one repair bobby_h's ceiling?  Utility knife cut out of that stripe width of luan and coated paper, insert fresh?  Has anyone in the last ten years had that done at the factory instead of doing it themselves?
    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    bobby_h's ceiling Looks more like it got wet from the top inside and is coming through to to bottom visible side of the ceiling, so the plywood would need replacing.  You could cut out the bad area and splice in a new bit, and replace the wallpaper covering over the entire ceiling.  But I would first find the leak on the outside of the roof.
    cheere

    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • bobby_h
    bobby_h Member Posts: 4
    Hey everyone.  Thanks for all the input.  My T@B is not an outback model.  It’s a 2015 CS.  The area in the picture is on the door side of the camper where the ceiling starts sloping down toward the rear (as if you were facing built in cabinets above bed/seating area. I lived in this particular CS for 18 months while on a job, so it has had a lot of use.  That job ended in August and I’ve had it at home connected to dock power with the fan /AC running continuously.  The plywood underneath where the finish is peeling is hard.  I took a screwdriver and pressed all around the edges where the ceiling joins the wall and the darker areas.  No give at all.  I agree with the comments about condensation on the inside as likely contributing to this condition.  If you’ve showered in one regularly as I have you’d note the areas of condensation and the location of the aluminum “ribs”, almost looks like striping on the ceiling after you shower.  I’ve always kept a small fan near the shower and I ran it continuously to dry out the moisture (combined with the built in fan and the AC). Could be with the continuous use of living in it on the road, the effect of showering twice a day for 18 months just exposed the finish to too much condensation on the inside.  Also note that the area of surface darkening extends further along the ceiling than indicated by the photo I posted, it is just not as dark but I will take further pictures for all to see once I return home in the next day or so.  My thoughts about that section of ceiling are to strip it, kiltz it and paint it a neutral color.  Thoughts?
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  • VictoriaP
    VictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    edited October 2020
    bobby_h said:
     My thoughts about that section of ceiling are to strip it, kiltz it and paint it a neutral color.  Thoughts?
    If the surface beneath is still solid, that sounds like a good idea to me, assuming you can get the interior dry first so as not to seal moisture in between the Kilz and ceiling that might further deteriorate the luan. Maybe run a dehumidifier in it for a few days beforehand?
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    @bobby_h - I would run it by nuCamp.  They may offer a different solution.  You can also find out if you can access the ceiling paper they use for a “like new” fix.  Email repairs@nucamprv.com.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • DougH
    DougH Member Posts: 1,110
    edited October 2020
    Or work with mandyleaphoto.com or jkjenn to get an ultra high resolution image of a T@B in front of the Tetons transfered to vinyl or other 7' x 5' product you can adhere to the entire back of the ceiling?  Sort of an art gallery on wheels?


    2021 Jeep Gladiator, 2021 tiny toy hauler, Austin TX
    Former steward of a 2017 T@B S Max

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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Not a bad idea @DougH.  A nice sky view would be pretty cool.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • Denny16
    Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    Ifbit is just the ceiling paper that got damaged and mold growing in it, them you should strip out the paper first, then lightly sand, clean wipe dow, and prime with Kilz or other mold killing white shellac.  I would not use the water based version.

    I had a house room problem with condensation drip from aluminum windows getting into the painted over wall paper under the window, it got wet (even under paint) and grew more mold real nice.  I ended up having to peel off all the stained wall covering, then prime and seal, before repainting.  Now it is mold free.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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