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Alde Worked Yesterday - Today Nothing

michaelroyy
michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
in Heating/Plumbing & Winterizing
I own a 2015 320S Boondock. I brought my trailer into the garage to start fiddling. Yesterday, I plugged it into the house current, turned on the heat, and all good. Didn't get around to any fiddling, so I shut it down. This morning, I turn it on and nothing. No clicking, no anything... The analog thermostat is set on (2) lightning bolts, no propane, heat/hot water, and the dialer on 5. I shut everything down and pulled the plug with the battery off. I plugged back in and tried the Alde with no success. Checked the fuses, the breakers, the plug...nothing. I have attached some pictures in case I missed something to check. I would really appreciate any suggestions.
2015 Boondock
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Comments

  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    If: the Alde was still "on" this morning when you plugged into shore power, you may have blown the fuses on top of the Alde.  Just staring at these Alde fuses won't tell you very much: somehow, they are almost impossible to look at and tell if one or the other is blown.
    I can't read any of your "docX" files, but it appears you have opened up the Alde and found the two fuses on the top of the unit?
    What you should do is: test the fuses for continuity with a multimeter, if you know how to do that (not hard, I learned on YouTube!)
    Or: replace both fuses.  The original Alde fuses were "fast blow" fuses, which proved to be quite problematic in the Alde 3010 models.  A change to the "slow blow" type solved most of the issue.  I blew fuses on a regular basis, changed to slow blow fuses 5 years ago.  Out of the pack of 10....I have 8 left!
    There are a couple of threads on why this happens.  One mentions a poor grounding setup for the Alde as a culprit.  This one mentions the idea of having the Alde "off" before plugging in the trailer, etc.
    See this comment by "Michigan Mike".

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,934
    michaelroyy said:
    . . . 2015 320S
    . . . plugged it into the house current [20A service], turned on the heat, and all good.
    . . .This morning, I turn it on and nothing.
    First Set the ADLE Panel to OFF, all switches at bottom.

    Second, when you 'checked' the three fuses did you remove them and verify with an ohm-meter?
        That is the only reliable method.  Two Green Case on control board and One on DC Fuse panel

    Third, house power service appears to still be OK (indicator at Alde 120VAC outlet)

    Fourth,  Now turn on Alde at Planel with:
        One Electric Coil, No propane, Heat+water, and finally temperature in 3.5 - 3.75 range


    Wait a bit - - - has Alde started to operate ?
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • Freespirit
    Freespirit Member Posts: 184
    I have had that happen to me and my GFCI popped for that particular circuit. In my case the GFCI was not on the outlet the TAB was plugged into. 
    2020 TAB 320 U
    TV 2025 Telluride X Type
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    Thank you for your comments. Sorry, I went dark for part of the holiday weekend. I checked the fuses with my meter, and they were all good. Followed my idol MuttonChops process, but without success. I will try that again because my head is spinning a little trying to make this happen. There is shore power to the trailer and the receptacle that the Alde plugs into registers normal on my plug-in meter. As this is not enough, I dropped the glass fuse AND fuse holder down the side where the circuit board. The Alde abyss. Not sure it is worth pulling everything to get it or buy a new one. If this has happened to anyone else, suggestions appreciated. I will buy the slow rate fuses. Still chilly in Portland OR.
    2015 Boondock
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  • MuttonChops
    MuttonChops Member Posts: 1,934
    @michaelroyy;  After you have replaced/installed the dropped fuse . . . .

    You might try:

    A]   At this point we all have been assuming your 12-VDC is OK.
          Alde requires for operation.
          So maybe your battery died on the first day AND your convertor has failed.
          Do Any of the 12-VDC items ( Fan, Cabin lights ) function correctly?

    B]  Completely power-off trailer.  Battery Off (if no disconnect switch remove in-line fuse).
          And shore power off.
          Wait 5-10 minutes and power back up; battery on first.

    C]   Have you set the Adle Electric to Zero and Propane to On
          To see if propane only (with battery on) works.
    '18 320 S,  pitched axle, 3020HE; PNW based
    TV: '17 Colorado V6 Z71 4x4, Tow Package, GM Brake Controller
    TV: '25 Canyon AT4
    Adventures:  58   Nights:  405  Towing Miles 50,180
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    @michaelroyy I'm sorry..I usually always mention the Alde Abyss and the need to block off the area around the Alde.....and the one time I don't, the Alde claims another victim.
    I have been there and done that, too!  This thread shows the one screw holding the cover of the "service hatch" to the Alde.  When the hatch/cover, etc is removed, you have a bit more room to maneuver around the Alde.  The threads also include information on what the fuse holders are and where they can be found.


    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    Thank you both for your comments. I am pretty frustrated about the abyss that I have been taking a self-imposed break. I will get my head, literally, back in it on Saturday. More to come...
    2015 Boondock
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    I got back into my Alde without success. Took the cover off the Alde and captured the fuse holder with a rod with tape on it. Bought the slow rate fuses and replaced the 2 in the Alde. Tested the fuses in the panel. All good. The Alde plug tested "normal" with my plug-in meter. Followed MuttonChops directions for propone, nada. Followed the directions for my shore power, nada. Other possibilities? Thermostat, one of the electrical boards, not sure if it has a thermocouple... 
    2015 Boondock
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  • Sharon_is_SAM
    Sharon_is_SAM Member Posts: 10,061
    Is the analog control receiving power?  Have we ever seen these panels fail?  What about changing to a digital panel?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    You might give this discussion a look.
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 710
    michaelroyy said:
    I got back into my Alde without success. Took the cover off the Alde and captured the fuse holder with a rod with tape on it. Bought the slow rate fuses and replaced the 2 in the Alde. Tested the fuses in the panel. All good. The Alde plug tested "normal" with my plug-in meter. Followed MuttonChops directions for propone, nada. Followed the directions for my shore power, nada. Other possibilities? Thermostat, one of the electrical boards, not sure if it has a thermocouple... 
    The Aide system has an emergency mode where it runs without the control panel. That eliminates one possibly failed component. 
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    I have two questions from these two posts. Can I put a meter on either side of the thermofuse to see if it in fact needs to be replaced? The second question is how do I run the emergency mode to check on my control panel? Thank you both. Great prior blog Scott. Appreciate that, sort of. More head spinning...
    2015 Boondock
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  • ScottG
    ScottG Administrator Posts: 5,655
    Sorry, I can't answer the question re: the thermofuse as I have no personal experience with that component. 

    Calling @ChanW. Any insight?
    2015 T@B Max S (320)
    2015 Nissan Frontier SV V6 4x4
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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 710
    Disconnect 120V power, disconnect 12V power (you can do that at the control board if you don't have a battery disconnect), remove the cable from the control panel and jump pins 2 and 9. Then turn power back on. 



    Note this works with the older Alde 3010 with the manual control panel.  
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    Thanks. I will give this a try on Thursday...
    2015 Boondock
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    Checking online, it looks like you can check the thermofuse for continuity by shutting off the power and putting a meter probe on both sides. 
    2015 Boondock
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    This is the page from the Alde 3010 manual that explains the "emergency start" method Grumpy G pointed out.  I think we have seen times where this method has worked with both the manual and touch screen panels. The description in the Manual here is a bit vague on what  or how exactly the Alde will start.  Somewhere in my tool kit, I actually have that little "jumper" part that came with my 2017 Alde.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 710
    pthomas745 said:
     The description in the Manual here is a bit vague on what  or how exactly the Alde will start.  
    I don't remember where I read this but supposedly it turns on electric and gas at low heat level with no temperature control and the circulation pump running continuously. The reason it tries to run both is so it works with or without shore power. 
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  • Grumpy_G
    Grumpy_G Member Posts: 710
    michaelroyy said:
    Checking online, it looks like you can check the thermofuse for continuity by shutting off the power and putting a meter probe on both sides. 
    You can simply put a jumper across the thermofuse, if the Alde comes alive the fuse is blown. Do that with shore power disconnected although I don't think it carries 120V. 
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  • ChanW
    ChanW Member Posts: 3,165
    I don't remember, but I imagine I simply checked for voltage on both sides of the thermal fuse. Ground one probe and test with the other. 
    Chan  -  near Buffalo NY
    2014 S Maxx
    2011 Tacoma 4cyl ... edit: 2022 Tacoma 6cyl - oh yeah! 

     A_Little_T@b'll_Do_Ya
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    I am back with an update and three new questions. It appears that the thermal fuse is no good. Checked for continuity before and after the fuse and nada. Three questions: I have attached a photo of the fuse I want to put in and would appreciate if it looks like a go: rated 99C; 10A; 250V. The 2nd question is that I will need to pull the circuit board to solder in the fuse. Any assistance with doing that would be appreciated. 3rd: I am planning to cut the existing fuse out but leave wire on both sides to solder the new fuse versus taking it out completely from the circuit board and soldering the new one into the board. Any comments on that? I figure if it doesn't work, I can pull the old wire out and solder the fuse into the board.

    2015 Boondock
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    @michaelroyy We have several threads about replacing the Thermal Fuse on the Alde. ScottG linked to this discussion above, and if you haven't checked it out, it may help answer your questions here.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    Thank you for the link. I downloaded the manual. The key question remaining is the fuse I purchased doable?
    2015 Boondock
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  • pthomas745
    pthomas745 Administrator, Moderator Posts: 4,527
    @ChanWwas the author of the post that discovered the thermal fuse fix, and ScottG sent out a bat signal to him, so hopefully he can have a look.  In the post, there is a "Digikey" part number that goes to this Digikey page about the part.  The current/voltage looks the same.  There are apparently several "temp ratings" of the same fuse, but that is way over my head.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    The other question I have is what size in the hex screw attaching the board? And, any tricks to access it in the very, very small space.
    2015 Boondock
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    I figured it out through trial and error that it is a 3 mm hex wrench that LOOSENS not removes the hex screw that holds in the circuit board. By loosening the screw, the board slides through a small u-shaped plate. It is a very, very small space to loosen the screw. I have attached a picture of the wrench that I used.
    2015 Boondock
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  • michaelroyy
    michaelroyy Member Posts: 54
    SUCCESS!!! I switched out the thermal fuse and Alde is purrrrrring. One suggestion I have if folks go down the circuit board removal path is to label each wire and take a picture of where it is connected. The manual is only marginally helpful. I have attached a picture of the 14 connections after I put it all back together. Starting out, I would label 3 and take a picture...
    2015 Boondock
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