Troubleshooting Low Battery alarm

geoB · September 3

The Alde Connect panel in our 2021 Tab Boondock 400 is now presenting a low battery alarm. A forum question referred to a Victron setting that does not appear on my updated copy of the Victron app; there is no "Starter" to delete. The trailer's breaker panel shows no tripped breaker.

For the first couple of years we had no electrical troubles at all - amongst other things, our TV had a 7-pin connector to the trailer. The last 2+ years the TV had a 4-pin connector connected to an Autowbrake brake controller. I've not seen any adverse issues with Autowbrake in this forum, but I wonder...

Below are images of Victron Connect's view of our trailer. Perhaps there's some clue to why we get a low battery alarm now.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/l4/08sh62uvrvur.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/jc/uo6vyirth7yx.jpg

MuttonChops · September 3

Victron App has battery at 10.57V . . . . which tracks the Alde Low Battery Alarm.
Victron App also notes the Charger is off.

Are you now on Shore Power? If yes, could be the Power Center Convertor/Charger has failed.
Try toggling the Circuit Breakers off/on.
Try turning off the Battery Cut-Off Switch . . . do any cabin lights work? No. Convertor issue.

If you are not on Shore Power, perhaps the solar controller has failed . . . or a wire connection has become loose. Inspect all wire connections.

geoB · September 3

I'm not on shore power. Any good way to determine if the solar controller has failed? Are there wire connection locations more likely to have failed than others? Kinda like dumpster diving! And thanks for the rapid reply.

pthomas745 · September 3

Exactly what battery setup do you have? The Dual 6V AGM? Something different? Hard to tell, but the numbers would "seem" to indicate a lithium battery.

Track back to "two days ago". Your battery had been reaching float stage consistently each day for weeks...and then stopped getting a float charge.

What happened two days ago? Parked in the shade? Note the sudden voltage drop there in the last couple of days.

Unless you have somehow wired in a "second battery" to be monitored by the Victron, those numbers are probably not useful.

And, exactly what battery setup do you have?

Sharon_is_SAM · September 3

Maybe time for a new battery!

Bill&Suze · September 3

In addition to what @MuttonChops recommends, take a look at the 30 amp fuse on the PV wires going to your solar controller and if you have a multi-meter, check for voltage at the controller's PV connections. Your first photo indicates that the system was functioning well until yesterday when it recorded bulk charging time but no absorption or float time, unlike the previous seven days when the battery stayed in the 13-14 volt range. Actually, it looks like the battery low voltage began dropping two days ago.

geoB · September 3

Two days ago we went to a Forest Service campground - no hookups, lots of trees. Cloudy skies. Which all minimized any solar power.

By the way - what is "PV"?

MuttonChops · September 3

In-Line Fuses as @Bill&Suze noted and Battery Breaker are excellent items to check.

geoB · September 3

Breaker believed not to be tripped - compartment motion detector works.

None of the literature from the dealer shows info about battery setup.

Am I correct in thinking that to confirm the battery setup: all bedding should be removed. The rearmost panel (which extends the width of the trailer) needs to be removed.???

pthomas745 · September 3

"PV" is what Victron calls "photovoltaic". Or, what a normal person would call a solar panel.

You are correct about where your batteries are. The question would be if you have the original dual 6V battery setup, or a "newer" replacement lithium setup. Here is a thread with some general photos of where to look and what you will see, if you have never been back there.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14932/bought-a-t-b-400-boondock-yesterday-furnace-and-battery-question-please

If these are the "original" dual 6V batteries, they may have simply failed or are about to. Try to get some charging into these batteries in any case.

Binghi · September 3

The battery is not underneath the rear-most panel that extends the width of the trailer. It is located in the compartment directly in front of that panel, in the middle of the trailer, behind the under-bed storage compartment.

geoB · September 3

Trouble removing cover. There is no noticeable fastener captive above the arrow preventing the panel being lifted. Clues?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/ji/qq6ayl580aqa.jpg

Bill&Suze · September 3

All the panels back there are fastened with square drive screws, you just need to find them around the perimeters. Some of us removed them all for easy access which is often needed. Open the panel in your photo and also the center one where @Binghi noted that the battery is located.

geoB · September 3

Found the "hidden" fastener. Below a photo of the batteries. Only visible identifier is "101420FH". Google's AI suggests they're lead/acid. What are they?

No apparent wire connection issues.

PS: Victron reports 13.88 VDC; DVM reports 13.46 VDC.

By the way: I was not at all amused to find the seal around the perimeter of the battery compartment trapped by by a strip of wood to capture the screws holding the hinges in place.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/0b/s12pik99kxlc.jpg

Bill&Suze · September 3

Send a photo of the driver's side compartment where the Alde and plumbing lines are located. We need to see if your solar controller is also located there. That's where ours is on our 2024 400, mounted on the bulkhead between this compartment and the middle (battery) compartment at front end.

Marceline · September 3

geoB said:

Two days ago we went to a Forest Service campground - no hookups, lots of trees. Cloudy skies. Which all minimized any solar power.

By the way - what is "PV"?

Well, if you didn't have much power going into the batteries from solar, the other side of the equation is what power were you using? What kind of fridge do you have? Were you using fan, lights, etc? I'm not sure of the capacity of those batteries, but it could be that you just simply emptied the tank.

MuttonChops · September 3

geoB said:
. . . identifier is "101420FH". Google's AI suggests they're lead/acid. What are they?

My 2¢ is you have Two 6-Volt AGM batteries wired in Series.
The brand label and capacity information most likely on the side of each.

geoB said:
. . . Victron [now?] reports 13.88 VDC; DVM reports 13.46 VDC.

Are you reporting a Reported Battery voltage increase?
Which could be due to turning off trailer VDC loads and/or the solar controller starting to charge.

What have you changed since the original ~10.5V App data post.

geoB · September 3

The VDC's were measured after the sun rose. I made no other change, just digging down to see what and where.

Sounds like the only definitive IDing of the batteries is to pull one up. That option is not currently available - I've been obliged to get the trailer of the street. It's now in storage about 20 minutes away. It'll be a couple of weeks before I pull it back out.

I'll open a new question when the trailer is readily available. Any suggestions for in the mean time?

Plus, thanks immensely to all who've participated here.

Binghi · September 3

Those are 6 V AGM batteries.

Binghi · September 3

And that’s the blue 1200 watt AIMS inverter behind the batteries.

TourDeForth · September 3

AGM batteries behave this way during the failure phase. They will charge up fully and the voltage will show this. But the voltage drops off dramatically when a load is applied. Check the internal resistance of each battery, or better yet put them on a battery tester and see if they pass the test.

MuttonChops · September 3

geoB said:
. . . obliged to get the trailer of the street. [Aren't HOA rules fun]
. . . Any suggestions for in the mean time?

If your storage location has sunlight.
Keep Battery Cut-Off Switch on.
Turn off everything you can in the trailer.
Make sure the Inverter is fully off.
Consider removing Fuse Panel Fuse for Fridge so it is fully off not in a possible standby mode.

Check your Battery Status in a couple of days.

geoB · September 3

@MuttonChops: Called the HOA piece just right. Plus, there isn't a tree within 100 yards where the trailer is.

To make sure I understand your suggestions:

Next time I'm up to the yard, turn the battery cut-off back on
Once that's done, turn off anything (e.g., the useless radio+ device) that comes back on
How does one turn off the inverter (if that's the blue device adjacent to the batteries)?
I'll check the Norcold 3-way pamphlet to see if it has a standby mode
Check battery status after a couple of days. What would be good news? bad news?

Thanks!

MuttonChops · September 3

@geoB
Yes, you've got the general idea.
'Good' news would be the battery voltage being near normal in a day or two.

But that is a long shot as you haven't done anything to change the one-day-good, next-day-bad status.

Once the trailer is back at home consider removing both batteries and having an Auto Supply test them.

Also consider fully retracing all the solar & battery positive and ground wires looking for damage, corrosion, loose fittings, or blown fuses.

Different model years have slightly different controls . . . in general the Inverter has a switch in the small driver side bed area forward cubby. It will be small and look like a switch or larger and like this one:

geoB · September 4

t=0: Managed to get to the trailer
shutdown = all breakers turned off (includes inverter)

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/t5/xtwxgno0ngim.jpg

battery on:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/4j/rb0t80g83ak7.jpg

Q: What's the 35 watts doing?

MuttonChops · September 4

35 Watts is the present output of the Solar Panel; P = V * I . . . 27.3V * 1.3A = 35.5
Solar Controller is outputting 13.8V * 2.4A = 33 watts to the trailer 12VDC system.

You would need to see the Shunt to say more.

As for your power-down of trailer.
No harm in turning off the 120VAC circuit breakers however they have no impact on the 12VDC side of the trailer. Various 12VDC items like radio clock / back light, digital control pads waiting on a button push, inverter left on, carbon monoxide detector [ normally wired directly to battery +12V, not fused by power center fuse panel ], and solar controller ( at night ) are the types of things to try and turn off when possible . . . . as well has fans, lights of course.

Above data looks promising as Controller appears to be working.
Now will the AGM Batteries actually charge . . . .

Consider disconnecting at Negative terminal next time at trailer, letting them rest/sit for 5-10 minutes, then measuring each battery and the batteries in series to see if the charging worked.

geoB · September 4

Semi-oops. All the switchable stuff is already off. I think (previously spaced) the only way to shut off the fused 12V stuff is to pull the fuses. Sufficiently significant to be necessary? Solar controller is major PITA. Reluctant to fuss with unfused sensors. Significant? I can do some necessary stuff tomorrow (Friday) AM.

I flipped the breakers, in large measure, because I thought the topmost kept the inverter off. Did I miss something there? The actual inverter switch looked the same before and after flipping breakers.

MuttonChops · 7:33AM

geoB said:
. . . only way to shut off the fused 12V stuff is to pull the fuses.
Sufficiently significant to be necessary?
. . . Reluctant to fuss with unfused sensors. Significant?

. . . flipped the breakers, in large measure, because I thought the topmost kept the inverter off.
Did I miss something there?

For a rig with OK-2-Good Batteries the background/parasitic current drain needs to be kept in mind but is not significant to system operation. If one does a lot of no shore power camping then adding extra power switches to background/parasitic current drain sources can be helpful . . . but it is not possible to eliminate them all.

Reducing the background/parasitic current drain while troubleshooting your issue was suggested to allow maximum Solar Panel power to go to the batteries, but don't worry if you could not.

As for the VDC-2-VAC Inverter.
Turning off the Power Center breaker has no impact when there is already no shore power available. The Inverter has two automatic operation modes. When on shore power the Inverter senses the available 120VAC and switches that power directly to the Inverter 120VAC output. When 120VAC is not detected then the Inverter automatically switches** to drawing power from the Batteries to supply the Inverter 120VAC output.
That would be a bad situation when trying to Solar charge the batteries as the Inverter can get power hungry.
** If the Cubby Space Switch is 'On' (it might have an LED indicator when on)

Also, the Inverter does not have a Power Center Fuse. Instead it uses a special high current in-line fuse.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021717/uploads/editor/tg/fzxc73f9d27k.jpg

geoB · 1:36PM

Fascinating! The things one learns after the screw up. I should be able to get up to the trailer this afternoon to truly shut the inverter off.

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

Troubleshooting Low Battery alarm

Comments